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Old 03-21-2015, 11:45 PM   #1
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351w supercharger or 408 stroker?

So awhile back i bought a 351w block from a friend for a deal. My plan was to buy another fox body and start Autocross racing...but wanted an overall balanced car. which begs the question, N/A or F/I. it would be drivin to the track and drivin to the store or around town as a reliable car but when the hammer goes down it wouldnt play nice. any advice please.


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Old 03-22-2015, 10:01 AM   #2
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A built 408 is going to be little or no more expensive than a built 351. If you are worried about cost...either is going to be a $8k+ build just for the motor. Since a 408 can hit 500-600whp pretty easily without power adders you really don't need FI. My vote is a mild 500whp 408 with a 200 shot on tap for track days.

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Old 03-23-2015, 05:32 AM   #3
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ok great, thanks for the opinon im going 408 stroker. just need to send the block to get magna fluxed or however its spelt. and order a kit.

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Old 03-23-2015, 06:08 AM   #4
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www.fordstrokers.com

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Old 03-23-2015, 02:45 PM   #5
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So i looked around on that website but could't find an address...i wanted to see how much shipping would be since I'm in California.

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Old 03-23-2015, 02:52 PM   #6
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Uh, click the "about us" link in the top right corner lol. They are near Chicago.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:54 PM   #7
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Could always do a coyote
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:57 PM   #8
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Could always do a coyote
Honestly that is probably the more "budget" option with the F150 Coyotes being in the $2500 range. I know you ran the numbers and so have I. For the cost of a turnkey 408 stroker you can do the entire Coyote conversion and a transmission. And a fox is so damn light that it doesn't miss the torque of the Coyote so much. I keep my eye out on CL for some garage kept old person's 4 banger notch fox and I may jump if i see one. I saw a hatch but it had a blue interior and the notch is a solid 100-200lbs lighter. And everyone loves a notch.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:00 PM   #9
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Depends on the goals. That 408 will be an absolute torque monster, so it will move when you stomp on it. I want to try and build a coyote to 13.5:1 or higher and spin it to 8,500-9,000rpm... From everything i've seen with that set up it should be 550-600rwhp if built perfect. By the time i have the funds they will probably have the next great motor and i'll have to decide then lol.

The 408 will probably bolt up easier in the fox though.
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Old 03-23-2015, 06:13 PM   #10
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Eh... They both pretty much just drop on in.

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Old 03-23-2015, 06:51 PM   #11
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Eh... They both pretty much just drop on in.

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Gotta relocate some stuff for the coyote. And then deal with all the electronics.


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Old 03-23-2015, 07:02 PM   #12
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But nothing is really that hard... I mean it all bolts up. Agreed there is a little more stuff but it does drop right in and then you just have to figure out via research what goes where.


408 is basically swap headers and 351 accessory brackets and that's it lol. And yeah, drive a 408 stroker car and you will not help but have an ear to ear grin plastered on your face.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:21 PM   #13
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I ran into a guy last week who coyote swapped a fox body and said he was majorly disappointed.

He said he nabbed a 5.0 from a 2011 f150 and it barely broke 330 hp/tq to the wheels after the tune. He said he was thinking about GT intake cams and Boss exhaust cams (or vice versa) installing an intake he already had and re-tuning but that he would likely just part the car out, take that money and lsx (6.0 or 6.2) swap it and go on vacation with what was left over.

He said his total cost was around $6500 - $7500 with him doing the majority of the work and said he got a great deal on the engine and trans (Tremec 6 spd is all he said).

He said the coyote-fox was slower than his other fox which was an original 5.0 with "your basic stuff and a small cam".

The guy was very cool. He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone of things he's built. He's done a few lsx fox swaps, a 383 rx7, small block ranger and s10, Dakota that had a 4.7, then a 5.7 hemi and then a 12v cummins, and small block jeeps. Basically, if you could swap it, he's probably done it.



My vote would be big cube NA or LSx.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:49 PM   #14
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351w supercharger or 408 stroker?

Quote:
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I ran into a guy last week who coyote swapped a fox body and said he was majorly disappointed.

He said he nabbed a 5.0 from a 2011 f150 and it barely broke 330 hp/tq to the wheels after the tune. He said he was thinking about GT intake cams and Boss exhaust cams (or vice versa) installing an intake he already had and re-tuning but that he would likely just part the car out, take that money and lsx (6.0 or 6.2) swap it and go on vacation with what was left over.

He said his total cost was around $6500 - $7500 with him doing the majority of the work and said he got a great deal on the engine and trans (Tremec 6 spd is all he said).

He said the coyote-fox was slower than his other fox which was an original 5.0 with "your basic stuff and a small cam".

The guy was very cool. He showed me a bunch of pictures on his phone of things he's built. He's done a few lsx fox swaps, a 383 rx7, small block ranger and s10, Dakota that had a 4.7, then a 5.7 hemi and then a 12v cummins, and small block jeeps. Basically, if you could swap it, he's probably done it.



My vote would be big cube NA or LSx.

Gotta remember it's still a truck motor if he keeps it 100% stock. If he were to change out the internals to make it identical to the Mustang ones it would be a lot faster.

And did he actually run it or was it more seat of the pants "speed"?

Of course after building all those torquey engines he would get a different feel. The coyote isn't a torque engine so you won't get the same feel like you would from a pushrod. It makes up for that in top end though, which is where you need the mustangs heads and cams.



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Old 03-23-2015, 09:10 PM   #15
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Man im a fan of those new Coyote motors or modular motor in general...but i love the feel and sound of a good old pushrod. V8 plus, torque is like your best friend in a fox that and traction lol

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Old 03-23-2015, 10:37 PM   #16
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F150 comes with low RPM truck cams on the intake, exhaust cams are the same and its got a half point lower compression. I've heard of real good results just swapping to the GT cams and doing the bolt ons like a normal Coyote but internets hearsay does not trump IRL.
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Old 03-24-2015, 03:56 PM   #17
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Here are a few points.....
-Different front cover (not just ribs, a couple tapped holes and bolt locations too)
-Cast exhaust manifolds rather than tubular
-Different intake manifold
-Different intake cams
-Slightly lower compression half a point
-No windage tray
-Different oil cooler

-Tune of course
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Old 03-24-2015, 05:23 PM   #18
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I have seen tests where the truck intake flows as well as the mustang intake and the main difference is external appearance. Half the ppl who have these cars put the boss intake on anyway. Nobody cares about the manifolds because of the swap headers. There 're definitely some "gotchas" but nothing to make it not worth the $2500 price point.

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Old 03-24-2015, 05:31 PM   #19
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I have seen tests where the truck intake flows as well as the mustang intake and the main difference is external appearance. Half the ppl who have these cars put the boss intake on anyway. Nobody cares about the manifolds because of the swap headers. There 're definitely some "gotchas" but nothing to make it not worth the $2500 price point.

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2500 is chump change when talking about the difference between the 2 motors

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Old 03-24-2015, 05:51 PM   #20
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2500 is chump change when talking about the difference between the 2 motors

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Not everyone has unlimited oil baron monies!!! Lol you have a point tho.

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Old 03-24-2015, 05:55 PM   #21
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Not everyone has unlimited oil baron monies!!! Lol you have a point tho.

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Don't mean it like that. Just if your doing the swap might as well spend the extra 2500. And be set. I have made over 700 through the stock tri-y style header and all. I believe it's worth the 2500 over the f150 version

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Old 03-24-2015, 06:50 PM   #22
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I wonder what the next greatest motor in the GTs will be. Right now I would live a high compression, high revving NA coyote for track racing, but interested to see what else may come out.


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Old 03-24-2015, 07:28 PM   #23
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I wonder what the next greatest motor in the GTs will be. Right now I would live a high compression, high revving NA coyote for track racing, but interested to see what else may come out.


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Curious also. It will be hard to top the coyote in NA form I believe. Just to good of a motor. So much potential

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Old 03-24-2015, 07:37 PM   #24
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So for a strret driven track car Coyote 5.0 all the way? what would be lighter, the coyote or 408w? either way the motor is going in a notch but there still alot of suspension work to be done first.



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Old 03-24-2015, 08:15 PM   #25
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Curious also. It will be hard to top the coyote in NA form I believe. Just to good of a motor. So much potential

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Maybe they'll put the 5.2 in. I would swap one of those in a heart beat. They could make the coyote a 5.2 easily if they upped the bore to 3.7" that's actually where they got the extra .2 for the voodoo.


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Old 03-24-2015, 08:16 PM   #26
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So for a strret driven track car Coyote 5.0 all the way? what would be lighter, the coyote or 408w? either way the motor is going in a notch but there still alot of suspension work to be done first.



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The coyote would be a hell of a lot lighter than the 408. To put into perspective the coyote is 100 pounds lighter than a 4.6 2v. The 408 is going to be even heavier than the 2v


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Old 03-25-2015, 08:12 AM   #27
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ok start talking coyote motor because you got me interested....so if my 408w would cost around 8k what would be a better budget build. basically my goal was to take a fox and drive to the track and beat the vetts and Porsches thrn drive home..the reliability seems like its in the coyote more than the old Windsor motor.

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Old 03-25-2015, 08:53 AM   #28
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ok start talking coyote motor because you got me interested....so if my 408w would cost around 8k what would be a better budget build. basically my goal was to take a fox and drive to the track and beat the vetts and Porsches thrn drive home..the reliability seems like its in the coyote more than the old Windsor motor.

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There is no "budget" build that is going to do that. You are looking at a $20k build minimum.
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Old 03-25-2015, 10:35 AM   #29
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351w supercharger or 408 stroker?

20k IF the rest of the car isn't built up yet.

The engine itself you can do for under $7k nowadays. Don't let Scotty fool you, he usually is talking about the whole package lol


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Old 03-25-2015, 11:20 AM   #30
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Right i was talking about the motor...its probly better just to build the motor i already have.

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Old 03-25-2015, 12:11 PM   #31
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The thing is you can build a 3k stroker and you could build a 10k stroker.


Wanna make 400 or 600 to the tire.


Both motors will be reliable but completely different personalities.
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:49 PM   #32
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20k IF the rest of the car isn't built up yet.

The engine itself you can do for under $7k nowadays. Don't let Scotty fool you, he usually is talking about the whole package lol


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I'm always talking about the whole package.






But in all seriousness, why in hell would you want a 500hp motor that you can't use? I'd rather have the car built up and a 250whp motor than a 500hp motor in a stock *** frame.
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Old 03-26-2015, 08:01 AM   #33
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Good point scotty, but i was gonna stiffin the frame up and everything...anyways this thread was about motors so i got the info i needed so far..next thread will be my build list and we'll go from that.

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Old 03-26-2015, 09:47 AM   #34
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So are you going to build a 351?
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:35 PM   #35
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no, i have a 351w that im build to a 408 stroker. thats why i asked supercharge the 351w or stroke it to 408.

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