Good price for a built 302 short block - Mustang Evolution

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Old 09-27-2015, 09:50 PM   #1
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Good price for a built 302 short block

Local guy has a freshly built forged 302 short block. E303 cam. Arp hardware TRW forged Pistons. Rods crank, sfi approved race balancer, comp cam hydraulic lifters with built in limiters. Ford racing oil pump. Arp oil pump shaft. Stock oil pan with low level sensor. 1000$ does that seem like a good price?


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Old 09-27-2015, 09:53 PM   #2
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Sounds pretty good.

Hey I have some GT40 heads of you are interested
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Old 09-27-2015, 09:58 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
Sounds pretty good.

Hey I have some GT40 heads of you are interested

How much. I'll need new heads too. Screw these stock ones


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Old 09-27-2015, 10:00 PM   #4
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:06 PM   #5
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How much. I'll need new heads too. Screw these stock ones


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For you, 200 bucks. They are legit 3 bar GT40 heads. You would have to change the valve springs. But they come off a running motor. They are in great shape.
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:10 PM   #6
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10-4 man it'll be this winter before I buy anything other than this for the fox. I'm gonna 76mm the thing.


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Old 09-27-2015, 10:49 PM   #7
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I'm trying to get rid of all my stuff now. Probably going to be moving.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:16 AM   #8
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If the guy isn't retarded and actually built it properly and has pics and/or receipts then yeah that's a good price. Maybe see if he'll go $800 or $900? Weak point is the block anyway so even if its stock rods and crank it kinda doesn't matter.


That motor with the GT40 heads (jump on that deal) and the E cam will be a really fun motor with a great sounding choppy idle. Grind the EGR bumps on the GT40 exhaust ports down yourself (anyone can grind a bump flat), throw an exploder intake on it and you'll be at 275-280whp with a tune and all the other bolt ons probably. Great motor to toss a 150 shot at on track days.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:17 PM   #9
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If he don't want the gt40 heads then I will take them off your hands. Son in law needs them for his 89.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:21 PM   #10
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Yeah, that's no problem. But shipping might suck. Cali50 lives close by. That's a pick up price.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:41 PM   #11
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Shipping is going to probably be $50-$60 per head. $200 picked up in good shape for 3 bars (not P heads) is a great deal tho. $100 worth of springs and then another $100 worth of locks/retainers/seals and whatever your local shop charges for valvejob.


Still gets up to $500-$600 or so... which is why anytime I see someone talking about porting GT40s and they won't listen to ppl who actually did it and wound up spending as much as a set of new Aluminums... like me... $500-$600 is as much as I'd spend on GT40s and that is very top.
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Old 09-28-2015, 01:52 PM   #12
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Sounds like a good time road trip for me , love that country out there. But I probably better just pay the freight, keep me in the loop and thanks for responding.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
If the guy isn't retarded and actually built it properly and has pics and/or receipts then yeah that's a good price. Maybe see if he'll go $800 or $900? Weak point is the block anyway so even if its stock rods and crank it kinda doesn't matter.


That motor with the GT40 heads (jump on that deal) and the E cam will be a really fun motor with a great sounding choppy idle. Grind the EGR bumps on the GT40 exhaust ports down yourself (anyone can grind a bump flat), throw an exploder intake on it and you'll be at 275-280whp with a tune and all the other bolt ons probably. Great motor to toss a 150 shot at on track days.

Awesome man. I'm supposed to go look at it today. He had it in his mustang for 1000 miles but he wants to get a 4.6 forged and put in it instead. He lives close by. Everything is forged. How much will the block hold? I'm wanting to run a turbo setup possible and would like around 4 to the wheels.


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Old 09-28-2015, 08:16 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by WhiteCali5oh View Post
Awesome man. I'm supposed to go look at it today. He had it in his mustang for 1000 miles but he wants to get a 4.6 forged and put in it instead. He lives close by. Everything is forged. How much will the block hold? I'm wanting to run a turbo setup possible and would like around 4 to the wheels.


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A stock block will hold 400rwhp....but you will be right on the edge of what an OE block will handle..timing and fuel pressure is going to have to be spot-on or you will leave big chunks of block/crank/rods&pistons on the ground.
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:30 PM   #15
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local guy has a freshly built forged 302 short block. E303 cam. Arp hardware trw forged pistons. Rods crank, sfi approved race balancer, comp cam hydraulic lifters with built in limiters. Ford racing oil pump. Arp oil pump shaft. Stock oil pan with low level sensor. 1000$ does that seem like a good price?


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good buy if you know what kind of tect the person who put it together is.do your homework. Why is he selling
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:59 PM   #16
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Awesome man. I'm supposed to go look at it today. He had it in his mustang for 1000 miles but he wants to get a 4.6 forged and put in it instead. He lives close by. Everything is forged. How much will the block hold? I'm wanting to run a turbo setup possible and would like around 4 to the wheels.


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So, why not get a 4.6 and put it in the Fox????..for the 302!!!
Or, build a nice 351/363/383/427 out of an early 71 to early 74 block, put some 4 bolt mains in it and it will hold 650rwhp...just saying there is nothing better than cubic inches.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:44 AM   #17
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So, why not get a 4.6 and put it in the Fox????..for the 302!!!
Or, build a nice 351/363/383/427 out of an early 71 to early 74 block, put some 4 bolt mains in it and it will hold 650rwhp...just saying there is nothing better than cubic inches.
I always like the modfox idea over a 302 based motor but few things will give you the rush of a big cube motor like a 408 paired to a stalled auto in a light foxbody car.

Just FYI, the 69/70 blocks were the strongest ones, not the 71-74 and you don't need 4 bolt mains either. Even the weakest 351 block including the latemodel rollers will support 650rwhp without breaking a sweat as they sit, no need to go crazy. After the 700-750whp mark its going to be DART time anyway even if a C9-D4 block probably will do 800+ just fine at that point you are spending so much $$$ on everything else its stupid to not go DART.
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I always like the modfox idea over a 302 based motor but few things will give you the rush of a big cube motor like a 408 paired to a stalled auto in a light foxbody car.

Just FYI, the 69/70 blocks were the strongest ones, not the 71-74 and you don't need 4 bolt mains either. Even the weakest 351 block including the latemodel rollers will support 650rwhp without breaking a sweat as they sit, no need to go crazy. After the 700-750whp mark its going to be DART time anyway even if a C9-D4 block probably will do 800+ just fine at that point you are spending so much $$$ on everything else its stupid to not go DART.
I respect your comments as someone who has never turned a 351w into 9 sec drag motor....I've built two...and there is a ton of difference from the early to late blocks...most people on the West Coast still using OE blocks for drag racing use the 71/74 block.
The early blocks were a shorter deck height...9.480 and the late 71 to early 74 used a 9.503 which is more desirable. The 71/74 351 had 10lbs of extra material in the web area and was originally designed by Ford to support 4blt mains but never went into production. I have raced a 393/408 windsors for number of years and although the 2 bolt block will sustain 650rwhp you are right on the ragged edge of destroying the block unless you do some serious oil galley mods and get better oil to the front timing chain area....we call that "blue printing"...as for using 4 bolt mains...if you want the motor to live for 4/5 seasons of drag racing without just doing routine maintenance....be my guest.
I know what it takes to make a 9 second 408 live in a 3200lb car for.....I've done it...have you!
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:03 PM   #19
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Ok cow chain,sounds like you have been dragged through it!
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
Sounds pretty good.

Hey I have some GT40 heads of you are interested

Aluminum GT40's?
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:32 PM   #21
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Aluminum GT40's?

No they are off a 96 explorer
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:49 PM   #22
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Five.Oh Info : The Ultimate Ford GT40 and GT40P Cylinder Head FAQ

For a street motor making 350hp or so these heads are ok, if you want to make 30/40hp more out of the box you need a good set of heads, like Ford Z304DA, AFR185's/160's or Twisted Wedge Trickflow............these heads with the right cam and intake will make 500hp N/A.
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:50 PM   #23
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Cool thanks for the info! What about then GT40x (turbo swirl) heads?
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Old 09-30-2015, 05:57 PM   #24
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Again, if you are building a mild street motor they are a little better than regular GT40 heads...GT40 is an old design...heads have come leaps and bounds beyond these types of heads in the past 20 years....here is a flow sheet showing all of the stock Ford heads against some of the aftermarket heads...this sheet is kind of old but will give you some idea of the different heads available....just because they say GT40 doesn't mean they are good....just depends on the cam and intake you have.....lift and flow are the key....IMHO

Ford Head Flow Data and Specs
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Old 10-01-2015, 01:15 PM   #25
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Still that flow chart just shows what a head can flow and there is much more to making power than that.


Like olerodder said you wanna make some power you gotta step up to some aluminum heads like TFS, AFR, RHS, DART, Kaase, Edelbrock, Holley, Brodix or maybe some Ford Z heads. And of course there are various models and sizes for each of these brands. Then you can also port them and the list goes on and on.


Best way is to set up a honest and attainable goal and stick to it. That way you have an end point set and so you don't go changing the plan half way through and rebuying things and lose money.
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Old 10-01-2015, 06:47 PM   #26
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I know a guy that is at 550+ rwhp on the stock 302 block. Nobody is more surprised than he is! Lol. And the last time that I talked to him, he was going to turn it up!

I wouldn't worry too much about the hp levels of the Windsor. Some seem to be able to take it, and some can't. There's only one way to know for sure. And the "testing" is the fun part!
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Old 10-01-2015, 07:02 PM   #27
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It would be interesting to see what real HP the 302 put to the crank on an engine dyno. Chassis dyno's are just not reliable for accurate numbers. My Maverick put down 686RWHP on one dyno....yet the engine dyno said 658 hp at the crank. Must be magic.......the other one said 668RWHP.......maybe running through the trans/driveline and wheels gives more HP....I guess you never know.
I've seen some pretty healthy race motors based on 351w OE blocks...most have lived a great life...with some good machine work and priority oiling they can stand a lot of abuse...although I've only built race motors, not street motors out the venerable 351W.
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Old 10-01-2015, 08:07 PM   #28
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I have a stock block 306 over 500 horse to the wheels and she's still holding up!


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Old 10-01-2015, 11:55 PM   #29
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How about sharing a dyno sheet with us?
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Old 10-02-2015, 12:57 AM   #30
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There's the dyno sheet. That's with 2 sand bags in the trunk with me sitting in the trunk with the tires smoking. Tuner said I'm over 500 easy with full traction and I added longtubes after that so it'd be even more. This tuner has 2 turboed foxes around 600 horse on stock blocks


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Old 10-02-2015, 01:40 AM   #31
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It would be interesting to see what real HP the 302 put to the crank on an engine dyno. Chassis dyno's are just not reliable for accurate numbers. My Maverick put down 686RWHP on one dyno....yet the engine dyno said 658 hp at the crank. Must be magic.......the other one said 668RWHP.......maybe running through the trans/driveline and wheels gives more HP....I guess you never know.
I've seen some pretty healthy race motors based on 351w OE blocks...most have lived a great life...with some good machine work and priority oiling they can stand a lot of abuse...although I've only built race motors, not street motors out the venerable 351W.
I don't think that the engine I'm referring to has ever been on an engine dyno. And I never saw a chassis dyno sheet. I have no reason to disbelieve the owner. The car is a single turbo Fox, and it was promptly kicked out of Sacramento Raceway, after it's first pass, for no roll bar. If I remember correctly, it was in the high 10's! Lol.
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Old 10-02-2015, 01:41 AM   #32
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Attachment 191739
That's her on the dyno Attachment 191740
There's the dyno sheet. That's with 2 sand bags in the trunk with me sitting in the trunk with the tires smoking. Tuner said I'm over 500 easy with full traction and I added longtubes after that so it'd be even more. This tuner has 2 turboed foxes around 600 horse on stock blocks


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Nice!
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:52 AM   #33
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I like this thread, keep it going!
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:08 PM   #34
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So olerodder you dyno'ed you car and it laid down 686 but you yanked the motor and on the stand it only put out 658? Never seen that before unless there was a problem somewhere along the lines.


I know numbers can be flubbed but that is a huge difference.
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Old 10-02-2015, 04:02 PM   #35
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Sitting in the new garage now. 3 bay with a lift. Time to start ordering parts for it.
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