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Old 10-05-2015, 09:17 PM   #1
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No Power at Wot, Revs fine in Neutral

I just recently bought two fox bodies, the second one is what I am posting about. I will post in the introduction area for my background when I am done posting this.
The car is an '89 GT Hatchback. It appears to be stock except for the following:

1.I was told it has a race clutch. It is stiff and only has an inch or 2 of travel. Shifts nice and smooth
2.Today I found a Motorvation chip in the A9L
3.It appears to have an aftermarket cat back exhaust with flow masters
4.K&N air filter

I got the car a few days ago and PO said it needed a new battery. I bought and installed a new 580cca battery and drove it home. It would not idle cold. You had to rev it until it was warm. Seemed to be missing on the ride home.

The last two days:
I replaced the spark plugs, cap, rotor, wires, fuel filter, cleaned and recharged the k&n air filter, thoroughly cleaned the mass air, throttle body, and intake tube. I had tried to set the TPS voltage before I read the write ups on here about not having to. It was at .55, and when trying to adjust it, it would just jump from .55-.60ish to 1.05 and up. I finally got it to 1.03 and left it there. Thinking maybe after reading on here, I should put it back to .55. The MAF wires appeared clean before I cleaned them with MAF cleaner but the housing was filthy. I cleaned it all thoroughly. The throttle body was filthy, and inside of it was caked with oil. I cleaned it, and also took off and cleaned the tube to the oil fill from the throttle body. I had gapped my plugs at .55.
8mm wires. When I changed the plugs, the rear two on the driver's side were completely CAKED with oil sludge.

After all of this, it starts and idles now without being warm, revs beautifully in neutral, but when you drive it, it just seems like it is majorly bogging. If you punch it, it does basically nothing. Like hammering the pedal on a Yugo running on 2 cylinders. I went to pull the codes last night and the self test lead was missing. The big plug was there, with one stray ripped out wire, but no single self test plug. I opened up all the wire looms near there to see if it was cut off, and nothing. I decided to wait until morning for more light.

I pulled the computer out today to trace it in the other direction. Pin 48 was a tan wire with a red stripe. That wire ended up the far left wire in the big self test plug. I hooked it to the signal return and got the tests to run. One thing before I post the results...I had to jump the car today to get it started. Keep in mind it has a brand new battery. I had driven it home the other night and have only driven it about a mile since. The only thing on while messing with the car has been the tiny dome light, and the very faint key in the ignition dinging. This car has old underbody blue neon, and when you turn the lights on, the highbeam indicator is on whether you have highs or lows on. There is a rat's nest of wires behind the radio with a good roll or two of duct tape to boot. When I pulled the computer, I noticed a Motorvation sticker over the chip, with a couple pieces of duct tape to help seal the deal. Behind the glove box was a big piece of broken plastic duct taped back on. Behind it is the heater core...maybe they replaced it?

So now the codes...

KOEO test failed. CM test failed. KOER test pulled 12, 41, and 91. Repeated and KOEO failed, CM passed (11), and KOER pulled the same 12, 41, 91. I then ran the cylinder balance test and got 80,70,60,50,80,70,60,50.

Sitting here typing those results I just started thinking....(see smoke? lol)...that's the whole driver's side bank. Doubtful every injector on one side is bad...maybe wires going to those injectors? Or not getting proper fuel pressure on that rail? I was originally thinking the 41 and 91 are bad o2's, but now I'm not sure. Thinking the 12 might be fixed at the same time as the rest.
Also, the joint between the header and the h-pipe on the passenger side is very loose and open. Right above it are 2 EGRS???? The lower one is hooked up good, the upper one is stuffed together with white mesh high temp fabric with two hose clamps and it is falling out.

The exhaust leak I am strategizing on how to tackle as I broke my right wrist 5 weeks ago and am right handed. So I am trying to fix this car with one very uncoordinated hand lol!!

Any guidance would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!!
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Old 10-06-2015, 09:00 AM   #2
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Well since this is a new purchase and you already seem to understand that you have a whole slew of things wrong is a good thing. It really is as you know that you will be getting dirty.


The battery dying.....well underglow, rats nest of wires, lights on, cut wires. Pretty sure you got a short somewhere and it will take some tracing and time to figure it out. Also check your grounds to make sure they are there, clean and good rule is to add a new one.


Those codes for the O2's might be the wiring, bad ground for the O2's, exhaust leak....are they even there or hooked up?


Do a base idle reset.


Make sure you get a new pcv valve and mesh to go with that tune up.


Check your timing and bump it up some.


Check your fuel pressure.


Vacuum leaks.....really search for those bastards.


I am sure more will chime in.
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Old 10-06-2015, 11:36 AM   #3
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Thank you smurf stang!!!

I am about to go to an exhaust shop and see if the can reasonably fix my exhaust leak because I can't tackle that one right now with my arm. If they can't... I think I may pick up a nice set of used headers, off road h or x pipe, and possibly the rest of the exhaust. I think I am going to pick up a set of Bosch 02 sensors, because judging by the rest of the car, I seriously doubt the PO ever replaced them.

Where is the PCV valve and screen? I had an 89 LX 18 years ago and remember it taking me forever to find it... and I can't seem to now.

Could the motorvation chip be causing problems? Why would someone put one in a stock mustang? I also have an 87 GT convertible with an A9L, so if need be, I can swap the computers and see what happens.

On another forum, someone told me to clean and check the IAC. I am going to do that this evening.

Right now my timing is at 13 degrees. Should I move it to 14? It might even be at 13.5 right now. Most of what I have read on the MOTORVATION chips, the customer was directed to have the timing set at 10 degrees for the chip. I am wondering if that is the case here as well.

My idle screw is broken off on the screw head side, so I will add a nut if I need to bump it up a fuzz during the base idle reset... if not, I will drill and retap it.

My little brother has a fuel pressure gauge... so hopefully tonight I can check that.

I will search for vacuum leaks this evening with carb cleaner.


I have read that a failing alternator can cause a lot of this...will AUTOZONE OR ADVANCED AUTO'S alternator test show if it is failing at higher rpm's under load?
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:08 PM   #4
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Yes. You have a "laundry list" of problems to address.

Have the alternator tested.
You didn't mention replacing the fuel filter. If you haven't, do so before you do the fuel pressure test.
I would set the timing back to 10. Or maybe even remove the chip and reset everything back to stock until you get the driveability problem squared away.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:19 PM   #5
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Thanks!

I replaced the fuel filter yesterday. I can set the timing back to 10 degrees. Unfortunately I don't have the stock chip. Maybe may 87 has a stock chip I can throw in.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:28 PM   #6
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Well, it really seems like it's a fuel delivery problem. But it could be caused by a number of deficiencies with your car.
You are on the right track getting the exhaust system squared away. And a weak charging system can also potentially cause these problems, along with the fuel system.
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Old 10-06-2015, 12:54 PM   #7
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Remove the chip as to eliminate another problem from the equation. The chip might be the problem and it might not but without the chip then it will be easier to diagnose. Those chip just bumped the timing and fuel pressure unless there is a custom tune burnt onto it which might be causing all your problems.


Yes Pep Boys or Advanced can check and test your alt while in the car.


PCV is on the rear of your lower intake under the upper intake manifold. It is hard to see
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:11 PM   #8
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Thanks guys! Just take the chip out??? Or put in the stock one from my 87? Major breakthrough update:

Just had it at muffler shop on the rack...there are no mufflers on the car, tailpipes are rotted, driver's side cat has holes in it, header flange on passenger side can not be tightened up, driver's side flange is rotted very thin. Driver's side o2 looks stock and screwed, passenger looks replaced but probably decades ago. This exhaust is hodgepodged and SHOT!!! Can I replace the headers with the motor and everything in place, or do I need to undo motor mounts and whatnot?

So here's the breakthrough...

Looking up from underneath by the passenger header, there are two rubber fuel lines. The front one was dumping gas out while on the lift with the motor off. My thought is under WOT pressure it is probably spraying like a fire hose and I probably have no fuel pressure. I was wondering how I went through a half a tank of gas only driving 5 miles lol!
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:32 PM   #9
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I am thinking of going to pick up a set of braided lines from Summit today, replacing the stock ones on my 87, and putting those stock ones on this 89. The 87 is mint compared to this car and it is my main focus of redoing. This one I'd just like to get running good before I consider much else with it. It was originally to take some parts from for the 87. Do I need a special tool to swap those fuel lines? Also, I'm assuming I have to release the pressure first...how do I do that? Depressing the valve on the fuel rail that I would connect a fuel pressure gauge to?
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Old 10-07-2015, 11:51 AM   #10
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Yes. You can use the Schrader valve on the fuel rail to relieve the pressure. And you will need to get a set of fuel line/AC quick connect tools to disconnect the fuel lines.
Unlike the modular engines, I believe that you can install headers on the pushrod engines without jumping through a bunch of hoops.
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:04 PM   #11
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So I got the braided lines yesterday, and just went to change them. The leak is just under the fitting, so it's not on the line that would be replaced with the braided line. It is a steel fuel line that has about 12" of rubber at the end with the connector on the end to hook to the braided lines. There is a pinhole where the rubber meets that connector. Is the a way to get a new rubber end with the connector on the end and splice it in, or do I need to replace the whole steel line? It runs about half the length of the car and has a coupling under where say the back seat is.
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:16 PM   #12
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I'm not sure.
Try the auto parts store and see what they can come up with. If they don't have anything, you might try a Ford dealership.
If you can find a replacement hose, you can securely clamp it to the existing steel line.

Do you know if it is the feed line? Or the return line?
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Old 10-07-2015, 01:27 PM   #13
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It is these lines that you are referring to correct?
If so, I retract my statement about clamping them to the hard line. The entire line from connector to connector will likely need to be replaced.


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Old 10-07-2015, 02:37 PM   #14
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There is a listing on EBay right now that might be what you're looking for,but not 100% sure.The headers can be replaced by removing the normal things that are in the way like spark plug wires,emissions hoses and tab/tad valves,etc but you don't have to lift the engine up,loosen motor mounts or anything like that.The 41 & 91 codes are coming from the exhaust leaks & fuel leaks.If you replace the headers,hpipe & fuel line you should be back in business.The chip is most likely causing the koeo test to not run.See how the car runs after you fix the problems listed above and if you're still experiencing issues,remove the chip and see how it does.BTW-yes the timing should be set to 10° when running a chip.Timing might be getting advanced too much because of having it set to 13°,so reduce it to 10° while the chip is in place.As far as the wiring & shorts go,disconnect the neg battery cable,attach a test light between the neg battery cable & neg battery post,is the test light on??If yes,you've got a short.Disconnect the alternator wiring harnesses one at a time,did the test light go out??If yes,the short lies in the alternator,alternator wiring or the charge indicater lamp wiring.If the light didnt go out,plug the harnesses back in,leave the light connected,start pulling fuses 1 at a time.If the light stays on,reinsert that fuse & move to the next one.If you pull a fuse & it makes the test light go out,that fuses circuit or component(s)is where the short exist.So if you remove fuse #16(horn/cigarette lighter)& the test light goes out,the short lies in the wiring of the horn or cigarette lighter or one of the components (horn,horn button,cigarette lighter housing)in that circuit.To find the specific area of the short,reinsert the fuse so the test light will come back on.Now start disconnecting wiring harnesses,switches,etc one at a time in the shorted circuit & if the light stays lit plug that harness back in and move to the next harness,switch,etc until you disconnect something that turns the test light back off.You've now found the actual shorted component or harness.If you find the fuse that has the short,but you can't repair the short at this time,just leave the fuse out and don't reinsert it into the fusebox.That will keep the short from draining the battery.

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Old 10-07-2015, 04:04 PM   #15
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Straybullitt... thank you very much! It is the same nylon lines as in your pick, but my female end looks different. It's shiny stainless and I needed the disconnect tool, there is no clip. The pinhole leak ended up actually being in the base of that metal female fitting where is attaches to the hose. I have read numerous threads on boiling the nylon line, heating it up, etc. and slipping it on a new fitting. Many suggested double clamping it as well. Also suggested was using high pressure rubber fuel injection line and double clamping it. That I believe I have. I also have fuel injection hose clamps. Either way...my fitting is bad. I just messaged a guy parting a fox out, and might be going to pick it off his car this evening.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:08 PM   #16
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Wbrockstar...Thank you as well!!! The fuel lines in your reply are the ones that I bought braided ones to replace, but unfortunately, that's not where it's leaking. Your instructions about finding the short are EXACTLY what I needed!!! Very grateful for such an in depth reply! I will set the timing back to 10 degrees...but my question with removing the chip is "do I just pull it out and leave no chip, or do I need to put a stock chip in it?"
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:09 PM   #17
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Do v6's or any other fords have the same 1/2" springlock fitting?
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHillBilly View Post
Straybullitt... thank you very much! It is the same nylon lines as in your pick, but my female end looks different. It's shiny stainless and I needed the disconnect tool, there is no clip. The pinhole leak ended up actually being in the base of that metal female fitting where is attaches to the hose. I have read numerous threads on boiling the nylon line, heating it up, etc. and slipping it on a new fitting. Many suggested double clamping it as well. Also suggested was using high pressure rubber fuel injection line and double clamping it. That I believe I have. I also have fuel injection hose clamps. Either way...my fitting is bad. I just messaged a guy parting a fox out, and might be going to pick it off his car this evening.
The chip "piggybacks" on top of the chip inside of the PCM. When they are installed, you need to remove the plastic that protects the contacts of the OEM "chip". Again, I'm not sure of the procedure to remove the aftermarket chip once it has been installed.
I have a F350 that has been lengthened to turn it into a car hauler/ramp truck. That is how they lengthened the fuel lines when it was converted. They used fuel injection hose and clamped everything together real good.
Just be careful doing it near the engine and keep an eye on it.
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Old 10-07-2015, 04:44 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by NewHillBilly View Post
Do v6's or any other fords have the same 1/2" springlock fitting?
That clip in the pic is for safety to keep the connector from coming loose. It is the same spring lock connector that you have.
Not sure about the V6 fuel lines but there is a good chance that many of the Ford's from that era share the same parts.
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Old 10-07-2015, 06:02 PM   #20
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Thanks again! The guy wasn't available tonight. Guess we'll see what I can find tomorrow
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:36 PM   #21
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Is it part of the feed line or part of the return line??If you can't locate the correct line,CJ Pony Parts sells both complete feed & return lines from tank to fuel rail.Kinda pricey but you won't have to worry about any leaks,since these lines are new.1st pic & link is feed line & 2nd is return line.
MUF-1021-OE Mustang Fuel Tank To Fuel Rail Pressure Fuel Line 5.0 EFI - Original Steel 1986-1993 | CJ Pony Parts
Classic Tube Mustang Stainless 1/4" Return Fuel Line 5.0 87-93
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TFS track heat
XE276HR .544" .544"
Flowtech 1 3/4"
Prochamber w FM
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:08 PM   #22
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Wbrockstar

Thank you! I picked up two female ends last night, if they don't work I may have to go that route.
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Old 10-09-2015, 02:19 PM   #23
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I also forgot to mention this info::if the line you're working on is the return line,you can get away with repairing it with fuel hose and clamps.The return line doesn't have the high pressure on it like the feed(pressure)line does.You don't have to worry about the hose bursting when using normal fuel hose and clamps,if you're repairing the return line.The return line is 1/4" in diameter & the feed line is 5/16" in diameter, so which line are you working on??If its the return line,just use regular hose and clamps if you want to.
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91 LX 342ci(10.5:1)
TFS 190cc(stage ll)
TFS track heat
XE276HR .544" .544"
Flowtech 1 3/4"
Prochamber w FM
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Old 10-09-2015, 03:04 PM   #24
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Line

It's the line with the schraeder valve, so I'm thinking it's the feed. The fittings I got were cut with about 1 1/2" of hose on them. I picked up dual ended 5/16 fuel injection barb and a pack of 5/16 high pressure fuel injection clamps. I was going to try dipping both ends of the nylon tube in boiling water, sliding the coupler in and using 4 clamps.
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Old 10-09-2015, 09:09 PM   #25
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Its worth a try.Yeah the line with the schrader valve is indeed the feed line.You'd think an aftermarket company would sell an inexpensive repair kit that fixes this kind of line,but I guess that would drastically reduce their sales of $150+ complete fuel line kits.lol.For some extra protection,you could buy a can of that liquid tape,rubberized tool handle coating or shrink wrap tubing(if its available in a 5/16" size)I'm not saying that using one of these will prevent leaks,due to the higher pressure of efi(30-60psi)but maybe the hose ends wont pull away from each other as easy.You can also put multiple shrink wrap tubes or multiple coatings on the hoses which will increase its strength.I've never tried it,but I thought it was worth mentioning.
I had a minor fuel line problem too(it was a self inflicted wound though)It was on the opposite end of the fuel line as yours though,so this tip won't help but I had to bring it up so you can get a laugh out of it or so you wont make the same mistake by accident.lol
I had the rear of my LX on jacks with a block under each wheel just in case the jack gave out.I had it jacked up enough so the tires would clear the blocks(allowing me to turn the wheels so I could access all of the driveshaft bolts)I slid a rock against one of the front wheels,but didn't kick it solidly in place.I tightened 3 of the driveshaft bolts,moved the wrench to the last bolt & one of the jacks rolled just enough to let the driver side tire touch the block & roll 4-5".Well damnit,that caused the driveshaft to rotate just enough to make the wrench hit the metal fuel line & pinch it.Who could possibly be that unlucky??lol.I cut the 4" piece of damaged metal line out,bought a 4" long piece of metal brake line,slid it inside of a 6" long piece of rubber fuel hose so each end would still have 1" of empty hose left.This allowed me to insert 1" of the OEM line into each end of my hose assembly so the OEM lines would butt up against the metal brake line inside of the fuel hose.Then I double clamped both ends.I rigged it that way so no part of the hose would be without metal line.Its worked for 5 years now.
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91 LX 342ci(10.5:1)
TFS 190cc(stage ll)
TFS track heat
XE276HR .544" .544"
Flowtech 1 3/4"
Prochamber w FM
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Old 10-10-2015, 09:52 AM   #26
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Crazy

That's crazy! You're lucky you didn't get hurt. I think we all have done things that ended up causing us more work...good learning experiences. I'm about to go out and try to fix it since it isn't raining this morning. I guess we'll see if it holds pressure.
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