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Old 08-26-2008, 09:53 PM   #1
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At a crossroads..... opinions please

This might be kind of long, but I want to lay it all out so if someone has an informed opinion I would love to hear it! I recently paid off my immaculate '95 Gt vert and shortly after it developed a detonation problem. After 3 shops scanning it with no codes and doing a dyno run on a scanner (I think it was a Genisis 5000?) alls we could determine is that after up to temp it would start to detonate at just 23 degrees advance......

So, at this point I thought I would just tear it down, have my way with her, and would find the problem. After getting the engine down to the short block I must proclaim it is the most prestine 130,000 mile motor I have ever seen. No ridges at the top of the cyl bores, and the cross hatch on the cylinder walls is still there. However, no mechanical sign of the detonation problem. This led me to think I will just put it back together with the following items. Now keep in mind, this car was dead stock when I started this. When you look at this list, if there is an * next to it, it means I already purchased it. But here was my intention:

TFS "Street Burner" heads/Cam/Intake kit

24lb/hr Injectors

MAF tuned for 24lb injectors and Cold air

70 or 75mm TB

50 GPH in-tank pump

Adjustable regulator

Cold air intake kit (anyone tried the $39.00 ones on ebay?)

*underdrive pulleys

*Pypes 1-5/8" primary shorty header

*full 2-1/2" off-road X-pipe system into Flowmaster 40 series

Melling high volume oil pump

Trick flow 150 shot nitrous

SFI approved damper (found old damper starting to come apart on tear down)

3:73 rear gears

Ok, so heres the dilema..... Trick Flow claims something like 350hp/360ftlb on a 9.5:1 compression motor with the above mentioned kit (I have no idea what my stock comp ratio is, nor if TFS #'s are crank or RWHP?) If so, with the above package on spray, I am thinking I will grenade the stock 5-speed.....

If I do go with the above, I will also plan some brake and suspension mods later on......

But I guess the ultimate question is, after just making my final payment on this car do I go ahead with this plan, or just get a 96 or newer 4.6L and build it up. I have heard the 4.6 is bullet proof, super easy to get huge hp out of, but also heard the early 4.6 generations are not worth putting any more money into then a late 5.0 and that you need something later then 2002 or so to reap the benifits.......

AAARGGGGHHHH.... so confused!*!*!**!**!

Anyone want to chime in on this?

Thanks!
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Old 08-30-2008, 10:48 AM   #2
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

I think you will be much happier with the 5.0 if you plan to stay N/A and not make alot of horsepower, (me for example ~450b) they are easier to learn with and work on than the 4.6's IMHO and be easier to make power with N/A if you chose your parts carefully.

on your above build however:
I don't know much about the TFS kit you listed, you have a link to it?
you may not need the 24's.
use a good maf, don't skimp here, abaco is a good example (reprogrammable to any injector via usb port)
forget about the adjustable regulator, big waste of money.
longtubes are better, if you do shorties go 1 3/4"
use something other than a flowmaster if your interested in making power. im swapping mine for magnaflow 3"
ditch the high flow and get a standard volume melling blueprinted oil pump. this is a tolerance thing, if your running on the loose end of spec because you plan on turning 9Krpm with this motor than use the HV pump, otherwise stick with stock. talk to your builder about this one.
romac makes good dampeners.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:10 AM   #3
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

^^agreed
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:12 AM   #4
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

Trick Flow 360 HP Twisted Wedge Top-End Engine Kits for Ford 5.0L: TFS-K514-360350B - trickflow.com
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:14 AM   #5
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

Looks like a pretty good combo. Have you tried piecing one together? It may be a bit cheaper.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:16 AM   #6
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

yeah I was all gung ho about the following build up until I spent some time on the Kenne Bell website a few nights ago........ Now I am wondering if I should just put it back together stock with a KB huffer on it or not. I am not going to drag race the thing. I just want it to sound like a big block and I DO NOT want to get owned by any stupid ricer on spray or something like a Grand Prix on the freeway.....
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:20 AM   #7
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

Id build it n/a, you can get plenty of power out of those motors n/a. It would be more reliable. My personal opinion.
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Old 08-30-2008, 11:37 AM   #8
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

Why is the regulator a waste of money? And how does one go about getting a blueprinted pump from Melling?

And I am the builder! But I am going to have any final tune done by either Marysville Speed or Brads Custom Auto.

Any thoughts on the trans issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverstangboy View Post
I think you will be much happier with the 5.0 if you plan to stay N/A and not make alot of horsepower, (me for example ~450b) they are easier to learn with and work on than the 4.6's IMHO and be easier to make power with N/A if you chose your parts carefully.

on your above build however:
I don't know much about the TFS kit you listed, you have a link to it?
you may not need the 24's.
use a good maf, don't skimp here, abaco is a good example (reprogrammable to any injector via usb port)
forget about the adjustable regulator, big waste of money.
longtubes are better, if you do shorties go 1 3/4"
use something other than a flowmaster if your interested in making power. im swapping mine for magnaflow 3"
ditch the high flow and get a standard volume melling blueprinted oil pump. this is a tolerance thing, if your running on the loose end of spec because you plan on turning 9Krpm with this motor than use the HV pump, otherwise stick with stock. talk to your builder about this one.
romac makes good dampeners.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:10 PM   #9
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

that HP rating is at the crank, I like CNC'd heads but those aren't a bad start.

regulators only adjust fuel pressure to the injectors, this should never be changed, if your injectors aren't humping it, then you should buy new injectors. the computer is expecting your fuel pressure to remain at about 39psi, in the olden days tuners would suggest bumping the fuel pressure a few pounds to keep your injectors from hitting 100 percent duty cycle and running the engine lean (instead of buying new injectors), its sort of a hack way of doing things, it does work but generally you have to run alot of pressure to make much difference, it will require a custom tune to keep idle and WOT happy and the increased pressure puts the load on your fuel pump now, not the most trusted failure point IMO.

you don't actually have to get a blueprinted pump, you can do that yourself.. the idea is to break it down and check clearance before installation (I have heard of guys running new cam bearings dry from skipping this step) though to answer your question any local speed shop can hook you up on the already blueprinted deal.

your T-5 will be just fine, just dont speed shift it or do 5K dumps... lol
oh, and absolutely no track lauches with slicks.
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Old 09-01-2008, 07:43 PM   #10
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

Quote:
that HP rating is at the crank, I like CNC'd heads but those aren't a bad start.
I know trick flow actually came out with a set of CNC machined heads. Everything is ported and matched right from them and they flow great. I don't know if you can get them in the kit instead of the non porteds though.
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Old 09-01-2008, 10:48 PM   #11
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

"""Bunch of stuff done, but it's still a slow 5.0... for now
If it doesn't stop breaking parts when I don't have the money to fix it, it will be someone elses haha """

Good one!!!!!!

Yeah, I guess I will keep this car and just do the trick flow thing. Just bought a "Professional Products" SFI damper from Blue Oval Industries last week. Maybe that will keep this motor from flying apart like my '85 GT T-top used to always do!!

Also bought the BBK CAI tonight. Am going to buy the TFS cam on Wed. I decided to not buy the TFS kit, but rather the major components. Cam now, heads next, then intake. I don't figure I need to pay extra for the TFS name on things like the timing set and the valve covers.

I notice a few centrifugal super chargers on ebay right now. May add one to the TFS in the near future. A low boost kinda deal. My local speed shop actually talked me outta the Kenne Bell. Said they weren't any good on a pushrod motor but worked great on the mod motors. Is it possible for me to go too large on injectors now if I might add forced induction later? Would 30's cause me problems before adding forced induction?
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:20 PM   #12
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

lol, they really said a kenne bell wasn't any good on a pushrod motor?
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:57 PM   #13
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

yep pretty much. Said the mod motors benefit from KB but that push rod motors like centrifugal......????
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:34 AM   #14
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Re: At a crossroads..... opinions please

I suppose one is more tried and true on a particular motor, but I really wouldn't go as far as say one "works" better than the other, if I did that I'd be downright lying to you.

though I do believe a roots blower would make alot more low end grunt on a 5.0 which is already fairly low end grunty, so I could see that point, being hard to hook short of a complete suspension kit and tires.

just think about it, whats different about the base 4.6, than the 5.0 to make it work better or worse, they both have 2valves, 8 pistons/combustion chambers, heads are degreed about the same, close compression, RPM capability is the same.
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