Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 02-03-2009, 02:44 PM   #1
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Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

For all you aspiring dyno operators out there, let this be a lesson for you:

Don't hit your brakes on the dyno!- Video
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:54 PM   #2
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

I bet they were happy to replace that transmission
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:52 PM   #3
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

ouch
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:30 PM   #4
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

powned.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:46 PM   #5
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

didn't know you couldn't hit the brakes on the dyno. that be some good info
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:03 PM   #6
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Oops
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:50 PM   #7
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

damn.... wish some one would do that to mine i need a new tranny
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:04 PM   #8
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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damn.... wish some one would do that to mine i need a new tranny
no you don't. you sign a waver before you strap the car to the dyno saying that the shop isn't at fault for anything that might happen to your car
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:13 PM   #9
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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no you don't. you sign a waver before you strap the car to the dyno saying that the shop isn't at fault for anything that might happen to your car
True, but all it takes is for that video to appear all over the net and then you tell everyone that they said they won't replace it even though the guy is obviously at fault for it.

Companies have a way of folding.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:34 PM   #10
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

i hit the brakes lightly on the dyno all the time.

edit: just watched it, that had nothing to do with hitting the brakes he balooned the converter
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:50 PM   #11
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

lol damn i want a new tranny lol
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:02 PM   #12
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Thats sucks.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:54 AM   #13
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Owner of the Car
it had nothing to do with the torque converter.. he hit the brakes and it cracked the tailhousing the first time because it bound up, then when he hit the breaks again it exploded the u joint
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:03 AM   #14
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

well then the dyno was not set up for the weight of the car then, if it did it on the dyno then it would have done it on the street anyways.when you set the dyno you put in the weight of the car to set the load, aparently the dyno was set for a much heavier vehicle because the dyno is a simulator of the car running down the road, if it were any different then it is useless to use a dyno, i have stopped several cars with the brake. maybe not stomping the brake but i have slowly applied brake pressure.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:13 AM   #15
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Odds are he didn't slowly press the brake...he probably hit it hard like you would on the street.

And on the street, the street isn't turning at 130+ mph under your wheels, it is stationary....on the dyno, you have the drum spinning at 130+ mph and your brakes do not apply to it so it will continue to spin at 130+ mph with the only limiting factor being friction between your tire and the drum.

There could easily be a big load up of pressure at the initial hit of the brakes if you hit the brakes hard enough....which is obviously what must have happened to snap the tail shaft.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #16
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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Originally Posted by SimplyOrange View Post
i hit the brakes lightly on the dyno all the time.

edit: just watched it, that had nothing to do with hitting the brakes he balooned the converter
+1 I've worked with dynos... I hit the brakes after letting off the power to bring the dyno to a stop, otherwise it'd take FOREVER to wind down - how is hitting the brakes on the dyno different from hitting the brakes coming to a stop on the street? The driveshaft/output shaft/rear/rear wheels are all in motion when just coasting..
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:59 AM   #17
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Ouch
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:07 PM   #18
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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+1 I've worked with dynos... I hit the brakes after letting off the power to bring the dyno to a stop, otherwise it'd take FOREVER to wind down - how is hitting the brakes on the dyno different from hitting the brakes coming to a stop on the street? The driveshaft/output shaft/rear/rear wheels are all in motion when just coasting..
The difference is, the road isn't moving under neath you, it is stationary so there is no kinetic energy in it. The drum is moving at the speed of your tires which has a ton of energy when you suddenly try to stop your tires.

For example, Run on a merry-go-round so you are not moving but it is spinning...get it spinning really good, then stop running. What happens? You keep going in circles because it is still turning.

Now, run on the street and come to a stop. What happens? You stop because the road is not moving.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:36 PM   #19
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

think of it this way, the dyno is set for the weight of the car, instead of the car moving, the dyno is moving, on the street the weight of the car moving has enough kenetic energy to do the same thing to the car if that were the case, also, before the car breaks, the wheels will slip on a dyno just like on the street if the car starts sliding. i have seen numerous cars break loose on the dyno, braking would make the tires slip even more.on a dyno the roles are reversed but the kenetic energy is the same....dont make me start doing math LOL
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:39 PM   #20
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

I won't make you start doing math because you are in left field. The car moving forward is different energy that a sudden shot to the drive train from the rollers. It is different, and your math isn't going to prove otherwise.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:52 PM   #21
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

lol, ok, think about this for a second, thats just rear brakes on the dyno, the front brakes slow the car at a much quicker rate than the rear brakes ever can, especially the drums on that fox.the way a dyno is set up on the software(i feel dumb using that word around you) you set the dyno to the cars weight so its the smae exact force as if it were driving on the street.all of the force is on the brakes anyways, as the drivetrain is decelerating at the same rate as the dyno regardless, downshifting might cause damage but by braking it is impossible because all of the friction goes toward the brake pads, not the transmission.you have more force on the transmission if you dont apply brakes because the dyno is using the engine as the force to slow it down.i promise im not making this up, the math was a joke from the eaton argument.
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:53 PM   #22
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

am i going to have to put my truck on the dyno and prove it?
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Old 02-05-2009, 01:59 PM   #23
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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lol, ok, think about this for a second, thats just rear brakes on the dyno, the front brakes slow the car at a much quicker rate than the rear brakes ever can, especially the drums on that fox.the way a dyno is set up on the software(i feel dumb using that word around you) you set the dyno to the cars weight so its the smae exact force as if it were driving on the street.all of the force is on the brakes anyways, as the drivetrain is decelerating at the same rate as the dyno regardless, downshifting might cause damage but by braking it is impossible because all of the friction goes toward the brake pads, not the transmission.you have more force on the transmission if you dont apply brakes because the dyno is using the engine as the force to slow it down.i promise im not making this up, the math was a joke from the eaton argument.

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am i going to have to put my truck on the dyno and prove it?
Please do...get up to full speed than mash the brakes and get back to us.

Also, then when you're done with your demo, break out the math formulas to explain why the tail shaft snapped with no load and just the brakes being applied and then explain why the u joint grenades on the second application of the brakes...which are the actual results of said video.

Also, make sure you have nice sticky tires instead of useless street ones to get a better recreation of the video in question so that the full force of the drum can be applied to the tail shaft as is being done in the video.
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Old 02-05-2009, 06:57 PM   #24
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

you are a smartass
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:29 PM   #25
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

rofl, you guys are more entertaining (and informative) than the video.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:36 PM   #26
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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rofl, you guys are more entertaining (and informative) than the video.

hi, im jarrod....nice to meeet you, you must be kinda newish...im back from the tour with my banned.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:15 AM   #27
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Rather than just impart more of my opinion here since I already had.. I reposted this to another website, has already gotten 4 pages worth of replies, only two so far have said its possible hitting the brakes could cause this, but even then its due to a likely already weakened driveline due to other factors

I like this guys reply:
"
Here's my take on it...

- As stated, there's near 'infinite' traction, since the car is strapped down.
- The drum of the Dyno has some mass - inertia. It's kind of like the car has a bunch of extra weight or is decelerating while pulling a trailer. Under some circumstances, that inertia can transfer it's energy back into the drivetrain... like if the tranny went to 'park', or even suddenly dropped from 3rd to first.
- There's mention of the torque converter on the tape. That's between tranny and flywheel, which would mean that the engine locked up, or was otherwise being driven so hard that the converter was carrying a lot of load. Of course that was just a guess by the tech, since there was fluid on the ground... but it's probably also from experience and I agree that the converter is more likely to break open than the tranny case itself. I would also expect the converter to esplode if the tranny did suddenly go from 3rd to first; that would make the converter spin really fast, while the closed throttle engine doesn't want to spin up.
- The rear brakes are basically connected directly to the wheels which are strapped to the drum. The only way hitting the brakes would cause any force to go into the drivetrain is if one wheel slipped on the drum; this would cause load to go through the differential into the drive shaft. If only one brake fired (say, the other was dead), it still wouldn't stress the diff, because both wheels are still bolted to the drum, going the same speed.

Bottom line; my guess is that the car somehow slipped gears, I don't buy the 'brakes=death' theory."
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:22 AM   #28
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

Oh and this, if brakes were one of the issues that could cause catastrophic damage on the dyno (only issues I remember reading about were pretty much oil pressure and coolant temp) it probably would have been listed in the manual as this guy stated:

"I just read the O&M manual for Mustang Dyno's 1750 model.

No where in the operational procedure is there a warning that says not to apply the car brakes. There is a million and one other safety and proper operational warnings, but applying the car brakes is not listed as a cause of immediate catastrophic damage."
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:23 AM   #29
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

WORD!!!! but like i said, part of setting up a dyno is typing in the weight of the car so it acts like true road conditions using an eddy brake, the eddy brake keeps the dyno from being just a rolling mass by putting a load on the rollers, with the dyno properly set, you cannot roll it by hand because you personally dont have the power to move the weight of the car.on TPS dyno they make realistic 1/4 mile passes running through the gears,because it is set for real driving conditions, hell wes even takes them for a spin around the bolck on the dyno to tune the drivability.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:50 AM   #30
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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WORD!!!! but like i said, part of setting up a dyno is typing in the weight of the car so it acts like true road conditions using an eddy brake, the eddy brake keeps the dyno from being just a rolling mass by putting a load on the rollers, with the dyno properly set, you cannot roll it by hand because you personally dont have the power to move the weight of the car.on TPS dyno they make realistic 1/4 mile passes running through the gears,because it is set for real driving conditions, hell wes even takes them for a spin around the bolck on the dyno to tune the drivability.
Ditto, I've run several cars in the 1/4 on a mustang dyno (including my regal and 92 hatch)
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:55 PM   #31
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

I hear that if you run the car in reverse, blow the horn twice and then turn on the A/C while on the dyno, you can turn your car into a life boat. Only if there is enough resistance though.
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Old 02-06-2009, 09:16 PM   #32
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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I hear that if you run the car in reverse, blow the horn twice and then turn on the A/C while on the dyno, you can turn your car into a life boat. Only if there is enough resistance though.
This is true, I did it on accident to two different cars.
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Old 02-06-2009, 10:00 PM   #33
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Re: Dyno + Auto + Brakes = ?

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I hear that if you run the car in reverse, blow the horn twice and then turn on the A/C while on the dyno, you can turn your car into a life boat. Only if there is enough resistance though.
This is true! In our case it was a 78 trans am, and damn did it cut through the water nicely!
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