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Old 09-11-2006, 05:04 PM   #1
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Amp problem

Hey all.

I have an 03 v6 convertible with the mach 460 system. Since installing new Pioneer speakers in the rear, they keep cutting out above a certain volume. Is this an amp problem or is the system refusing to recognize the new speakers since they aren't factory? It is just happening with the two new ones. All others are fine.

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Old 09-11-2006, 05:48 PM   #2
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Re: Amp problem

Almost sounds like the Pioneer speakers are running at different ohms than the stock mach 1 speakers.

Just a guess though, never messed with Mach systems
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Old 09-11-2006, 05:57 PM   #3
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Re: Amp problem

Would different ohms cause speakers to cut out after going half way up on the volume range? Generally speaking that is. I've added aftermarket speakers to factory systems on different makes before and never come across this situation before. I didn't think that the mach system was that sensitive. Also, just to evoke more confusion, I talked to an advisor at my local Ford dealer and he had said that it wouldn't matter, as long as I wasn't adding to the loop that the amps currently are on. He said that the speakers would just replace the factory ones in the loop. Now are just as confused as I am?
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:01 PM   #4
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Re: Amp problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpy View Post
Would different ohms cause speakers to cut out after going half way up on the volume range?
Yes. If the speakers are running at 4ohms but the amp only runs at 8ohms or anything above 4ohms when the power is increased the speakers will be trying to pull move power out of the amp than the amp can actually put out so they will cut out.

Quote:
Generally speaking that is. I've added aftermarket speakers to factory systems on different makes before and never come across this situation before.
I was just throwing out the best thing I could think of. If they are wired up correctly the only thing that I could imagine happening is that the amps in the system are running at a higher ohm than the speakers.

Quote:
I didn't think that the mach system was that sensitive. Also, just to evoke more confusion, I talked to an advisor at my local Ford dealer and he had said that it wouldn't matter, as long as I wasn't adding to the loop that the amps currently are on. He said that the speakers would just replace the factory ones in the loop. Now are just as confused as I am?
I don't know to be honest. I know that if you wire up a 4ohm aftermarket amp to a 2ohm sub and try to make the amp run at 2ohms it will go into protection mode cutting off.
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:49 PM   #5
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Re: Amp problem

That is strange, I havnt changed the speakers out on my mach system so I couldnt tell ya... good luck.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:06 PM   #6
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Re: Amp problem

I think you are right about the ohms. If I remember correctly, the new speakers are 4 ohms. I'm not sure about the amp, which I should have checked before installing. I noticed on the way home that when the bass hit at a certain level, they cut out. If I lowered the volume, thus lowering the bass, they kicked back in.

Do you know what the ohm rating is for the factory amps? And can they be replaced with aftermarket amps without any problems? I know you said you didn't have much experience with mach systems, but wasn't sure if you had heard.

I appreciate the input. I'm new to the forum and so far so good. I will definitely be a regular on here.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:16 PM   #7
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Re: Amp problem

maybe the factory amps just cant power them....
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:22 PM   #8
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Re: Amp problem

heres the factory amp specs


Mach 460:
Ford Hi/Mid-Pass Amp - 2x60w = 120w Max. 2x30w = 60w Nom.
Ford Mid/Low-Pass Amp - 2x85w = 170w Max. 2x43.5w = 85w Nom.
230w / 13v = 17.7 amps Nom. 4 Ohms at 2% THD
460w / 13v = 35.4 amps Max. 4 Ohms at 2% THD


Also, moving to mustang audio & video
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:30 PM   #9
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Re: Amp problem

I could swear I remember reading somewhere the factory 460 runs at 3 ohms, But...I could be wrong. As far as why yours is cutting out, yes it sounds like the speakers are trying to run at a different ohm than the amps, which would cause it to cut out like that.

As far as running a new amp, if you want to do this, ditch the mach system completely. Just like running an amp off the mach system sounds like crap, trying to run a mix of on the mach system and off will sound like crap as well. The mach system is good for what it is, a factory system, anything past that and you'll wish for the base system.

Now, these speakers you installed, were they dual voice coil or single, because the mach speakers are single, and if you installed double it would cause the speakers to be running at the wrong ohm, hence your problem. Are you absolutely sure everything with these new speakers is wired up correctly..there could be alot of variables.


If it was me, I'd put in an aftermarket headunit, run new wiring for a front and a rear amp (or a good 4 channel) and run a complete new system, it'll sound better and perform better than trying to modify the mach system.


This is lowflyn btw....for those that care, and I've been through the stock system, 460 system, and now a complete aftermarket system.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:47 PM   #10
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Re: Amp problem

[QUOTE=Zim;334735]heres the factory amp specs


Mach 460:
Ford Hi/Mid-Pass Amp - 2x60w = 120w Max. 2x30w = 60w Nom.
Ford Mid/Low-Pass Amp - 2x85w = 170w Max. 2x43.5w = 85w Nom.
230w / 13v = 17.7 amps Nom. 4 Ohms at 2% THD
460w / 13v = 35.4 amps Max. 4 Ohms at 2% THD


The speakers are 180w max. So I think you are right. Not enough power to push them. Thanks for the specs, Zim. I think soon, rather than later, I will take Aidan's advise and just gut it completely and go aftermarket. Just bought this back in January. Didn't think I would need to do it so soon.2:
Now I know. Thanks again.
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Old 09-11-2006, 07:57 PM   #11
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Re: Amp problem

[QUOTE=Stumpy;334748]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim View Post
heres the factory amp specs


Mach 460:
Ford Hi/Mid-Pass Amp - 2x60w = 120w Max. 2x30w = 60w Nom.
Ford Mid/Low-Pass Amp - 2x85w = 170w Max. 2x43.5w = 85w Nom.
230w / 13v = 17.7 amps Nom. 4 Ohms at 2% THD
460w / 13v = 35.4 amps Max. 4 Ohms at 2% THD


The speakers are 180w max. So I think you are right. Not enough power to push them. Thanks for the specs, Zim. I think soon, rather than later, I will take Aidan's advise and just gut it completely and go aftermarket. Just bought this back in January. Didn't think I would need to do it so soon.2:
Now I know. Thanks again.
It wouldn't be due to the fact the "speakers are pulling too much power", this is not possible, the speakers would simply be underpowered. I still believe it's something in the wiring, but, redoing the system would solve this problem for you. Before you spend the money on a new system, I'd recommend checking/redoing the wiring to your new speakers to ensure 1xt, it's connected correctly, 2nd, it's wired for the correct ohms, after checking those things, then you can look into other possible causes, I might do a little brainstorming with the 460 system and see if I can't give you a more exact answer, if ya would, what are the model speakers you installed?
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:08 PM   #12
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Re: Amp problem

Pioneer model TS-A630P
180w max
4ohms
90dB/W
30-28000 Hz
3 way 6-1/2

I used the original factory connectors to install the speakers. No cuts or splices to install. Still has the factory wiring. Should I have changed the connectors?
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:26 PM   #13
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Re: Amp problem

Well the resistance is the same... maybe you've got the wiires flipped around on the speaker?
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:33 PM   #14
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Re: Amp problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpy View Post
Pioneer model TS-A630P
180w max
4ohms
90dB/W
30-28000 Hz
3 way 6-1/2

I used the original factory connectors to install the speakers. No cuts or splices to install. Still has the factory wiring. Should I have changed the connectors?
Well, one initial problem I see is the speakers you installed are 3 ways, and the amp you are running them off of is for mids/lows, I'm not sure if this would make a difference, but it's a possibility. If I get a chance tonight after studying I'll do a little research for ya man.
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:50 PM   #15
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Re: Amp problem

I really appreciate you all helping me. If this is how you treat a newbie, then I am glad I found you. Thanks again.
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