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Old 01-12-2016, 11:17 AM   #1
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subs without amp

Hey guys so I've never done any audio work but I got left three pioneer subwoofers 1000w and I was wondering if I could get them installed without an amp and hopefully just tapping into the rear speakers. Is that even possible, it's probably not but if I can get them installed without an amp that would be awesome. By the way my current system is the shaker 500
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:03 PM   #2
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U need an amp to pump those baby's


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Old 01-12-2016, 01:21 PM   #3
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That's only part of it. Need to run power to it from battery and remote wire from head unit.


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Old 01-12-2016, 02:55 PM   #4
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The subs require WAY more power than is going to the speakers. You need an amp, you need a good install kit and you'll need a good headunit with the correct outputs. TBTH the best thing to do is to completely re-wire the car if you want the best sound quality. Those of us with the Mach systems are in this boat.
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Old 01-12-2016, 07:54 PM   #5
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Ok I was just checking because I had watched some videos online of installs and you do need to get the power from the battery and wiring to head unit. I guess I'll wait until I buy the raxiom navigation and get new speakers subs and install 2 subs in the trunk with an amp
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:26 PM   #6
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If you actually care about sound, get an actual headunit.
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Old 01-12-2016, 08:56 PM   #7
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Ok I was just checking because I had watched some videos online of installs and you do need to get the power from the battery and wiring to head unit. I guess I'll wait until I buy the raxiom navigation and get new speakers subs and install 2 subs in the trunk with an amp

Raxiom nav doesn't upgrade the stock radio. Might as well get a better radio


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Old 01-12-2016, 09:15 PM   #8
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Been outta the game awhile. Alpine and pioneer was what I always went for. You want something that's got higher watts per channel. If u want to do it right it's not cheap. Def want a monster power cable from the batt to ur amp. Prob something that has its own fuse. Also not sure if ur subs came with a box but u want a good box and placement of that box(speakers) is key. If U wanna get nasty u can add capacitors too. Just don't do it half a$$ed. Also need to eliminate trunk vibration. Nothing worse than when that bass kicks u here vibration. I want nice tight bass. It's not hard to hook all this up. I always say if ur gonna go through all this do it right the first time.


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Old 01-12-2016, 10:44 PM   #9
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You never did say what size Subs you have. Are they Single voice coil or Dual? Everything matters, They can be wired differently also. Even all three can be wired together. With all the different methods being said, you still want to add Amp(s) to it.
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:45 PM   #10
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Don't waste your money on a capacitor. There a joke and just meant for the Poorly informed consumer.

To do this rite your going to
Upgrade the factory head unit(raxiom is not an upgrade and won't last either)
Replace all speakers
Relocate the rear speakers to the rear side panels if your wanting the best sound quality u can get for your money
Re wire all speakers. Don't use any factory wiring
Amp the subs
Properly build a box for the subs
Properly dynomat the trunk of your car
Readjust your trunk giving a tighter fit on the latch to reduce radles
Put four bolts on licensee plate instead of two.
If you go through the trouble of replacing speakers and wires than you might as well run an amp for the new speakers to. Better sound quality by doing so. And can be a lot louder

The list can go on and on.
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Old 01-21-2016, 12:49 PM   #11
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Don't waste your money on a capacitor. There a joke and just meant for the Poorly informed consumer.

To do this rite your going to
Upgrade the factory head unit(raxiom is not an upgrade and won't last either)
Replace all speakers
Relocate the rear speakers to the rear side panels if your wanting the best sound quality u can get for your money
Re wire all speakers. Don't use any factory wiring
Amp the subs
Properly build a box for the subs
Properly dynomat the trunk of your car
Readjust your trunk giving a tighter fit on the latch to reduce radles
Put four bolts on licensee plate instead of two.
If you go through the trouble of replacing speakers and wires than you might as well run an amp for the new speakers to. Better sound quality by doing so. And can be a lot louder

The list can go on and on.

Why no capacitor ?


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Old 01-21-2016, 12:56 PM   #12
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Because you never need it. When you need a cap. You should be running a dual battery system with proper battery's in the first place. It makes the system safer to operate and everything lasts longer. Running a second battery will also reduce strain on your chargin system.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:07 PM   #13
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Yes but now he's really getting into it. I don't think the op wants to compete. He would need another alternator also. if he doesn't wire it right that could be bad. I think a cap would be easy enough for him and there's not much more involved. He can make it a simple job and it would sound good


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Old 01-21-2016, 01:24 PM   #14
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Op I recommend a cap so ur headlights don't look like strobes when the bass hits. If u get amps that r around 500 to 1000 watt u could prob do without one.


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Old 01-21-2016, 01:46 PM   #15
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My buddy had a "system" back in the day. He had a capacitor, a second gel battery, a custom box, a JL amp for his sub and a JL amp for his speakers. All new speaker wiring, some sort of Alpine or Kenwood HU, dynamat in the trunk and some other stuff I forget.


I bought his old subs for my Cobra and just did a half assed setup and honestly it sounded pretty decent. I had a non-Mach Cobra so I left the stock wires in place. Got a nice Pioneer headunit, bypassed the factory amp, basic Pioneer 6x8s in all 4 corners, Kicker 500:1 amp for the subs and a 0 gauge wire to power it from the battery. Sounded pretty good for what it was but a lot of the time I just listened to my exhaust.


For the current car in my sig... its a Mach460 car so that will require a full re-wire if/when I do the radio. TBTH the Mach460 system sounds good enough for me and with a blower and a loud BOV and a nice Bassanni exhaust I won't be listening to it all the time anyway.
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Old 01-21-2016, 01:51 PM   #16
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My buddy had a "system" back in the day. He had a capacitor, a second gel battery, a custom box, a JL amp for his sub and a JL amp for his speakers. All new speaker wiring, some sort of Alpine or Kenwood HU, dynamat in the trunk and some other stuff I forget.


I bought his old subs for my Cobra and just did a half assed setup and honestly it sounded pretty decent. I had a non-Mach Cobra so I left the stock wires in place. Got a nice Pioneer headunit, bypassed the factory amp, basic Pioneer 6x8s in all 4 corners, Kicker 500:1 amp for the subs and a 0 gauge wire to power it from the battery. Sounded pretty good for what it was but a lot of the time I just listened to my exhaust.


For the current car in my sig... its a Mach460 car so that will require a full re-wire if/when I do the radio. TBTH the Mach460 system sounds good enough for me and with a blower and a loud BOV and a nice Bassanni exhaust I won't be listening to it all the time anyway.

Funny that u say that about exhaust. I almost never listen to the radio. I c my car as more performance. Last thing i would want to do is put added weight in the back for a box. The exhaust is music to my ears.


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Old 01-21-2016, 01:56 PM   #17
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That's a reason I'll probably just leave the Mach system as is. Sounds good enough and I'm not some sort of audiophile. When I hear someone absolutely blasting music at a light or has bass so loud that my windows vibrate... ugh... no.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:46 PM   #18
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Op I recommend a cap so ur headlights don't look like strobes when the bass hits. If u get amps that r around 500 to 1000 watt u could prob do without one.


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These cars don't need a cap for anything under 1200 w. I am currently running 1400w and have no cap and no dimming issues. It's all on how you use your cars power. I did upgrade the battery but the stock battery was fine until 1200+. A capacitor does not help. Yes it can avoid dimming lights but it trashes car battery's.

A cap allows for stored energy to be very quickly discharged. They also draw a lot of power pretty quickly and you will do more harm than good with a cap if you push them. I've been in car audio for 15+ years installing and competing. I know my stuff and i will say it again.

Capacitors are useless and will cause damage over time.

I've been using the same battery's for 7 years and they still operate like new. I've ran these battery's originally for three years straight on a 4500w system and there still running strong.
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Old 01-21-2016, 02:55 PM   #19
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These cars don't need a cap for anything under 1200 w. I am currently running 1400w and have no cap and no dimming issues. It's all on how you use your cars power. I did upgrade the battery but the stock battery was fine until 1200+. A capacitor does not help. Yes it can avoid dimming lights but it trashes car battery's.

A cap allows for stored energy to be very quickly discharged. They also draw a lot of power pretty quickly and you will do more harm than good with a cap if you push them. I've been in car audio for 15+ years installing and competing. I know my stuff and i will say it again.

Capacitors are useless and will cause damage over time.

I've been using the same battery's for 7 years and they still operate like new. I've ran these battery's originally for three years straight on a 4500w system and there still running strong.

I'm not disagreeing wit u and I'm not questioning ur exp. but ur experience is with heavy duty equip. And competing than yes I'm sure it would take a toll on the batt. For a reg Joe that wants to upgrade and listen to music loud sparingly i don't c how the cap could kill a batt like that.


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Old 01-21-2016, 03:42 PM   #20
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Because the capacitor draws so much extra juice from the battery on a continual basis. Car batteries are designed to be a starting battery not what would be considered a deep cycle battery when you use a capacitor if you listen to music loudly for a while you will draw the battery down into the area where you should be using a deep cycle or gel type battery
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Old 01-21-2016, 03:45 PM   #21
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For the average consumer I still always recommended not using a capacitor because if you feel the need for a capacitor that you are already stressing your factory charging system it is better to just avoid that and allow the lights to dim slightly or turn the air down to where they don't dim lights. Anytime your way to begin today vehicle you're straining the electrical system which is never a good thing adding a capacitor to it simply is just like putting a Band-Aid on it cut require stitches. It is not the proper fix it is just a small solution

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

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Old 01-21-2016, 04:00 PM   #22
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So you would instead add a second power source( battery etc.) but still no cap hooked to the second power supply?


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Old 01-21-2016, 04:17 PM   #23
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Correct. I wide use a gel type battery that's designed to be drawn low. Battery's designed for that act as a capacitor only they don't drain the charging system to terribly unless your running a lot of power and truly need to do upgrades like alternator etc. running a second battery is by far safer for everything involved for longevity and it's an easy install. By our already running a wire from battery to your amp. Instead u go bat to bat and then go to the amp. Just make sure u wire the battery's correctly to stay at 12v not 24.

---------- Post added at 10:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 PM ----------

Would. Not wide.
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Old 01-21-2016, 07:02 PM   #24
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So no one here is going to recommend doing the big 3 😒

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Old 01-21-2016, 07:11 PM   #25
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Jordan pippen and rodman?!!!!!


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Old 01-21-2016, 08:02 PM   #26
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Big three won't be required unless he's pushing over 1000watts on the system. He seems to want to run the cheaper route so no I did not mention it. Like I said. The list can go on and on.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:53 PM   #27
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I always replace the pile of **** OEM ground strap with a 4 gauge cable and add a matching one to the passenger mount. I once had a ricer ask me if I ever thought of installing a "grounding kit". I swear to god those dumbasses will buy anything that has a "bolt on power" sticker...
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Old 01-22-2016, 01:41 AM   #28
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I always replace the pile of **** OEM ground strap with a 4 gauge cable and add a matching one to the passenger mount. I once had a ricer ask me if I ever thought of installing a "grounding kit". I swear to god those dumbasses will buy anything that has a "bolt on power" sticker...
I actually had a friend in high school that got that for his sentra

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Old 01-22-2016, 06:39 AM   #29
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I always replace the pile of **** OEM ground strap with a 4 gauge cable and add a matching one to the passenger mount. I once had a ricer ask me if I ever thought of installing a "grounding kit". I swear to god those dumbasses will buy anything that has a "bolt on power" sticker...

Lmao yes they will.
It would be a good idea to do big three upgrade and certainly won't harm anything. Obviously it will help out. But it's not required in most cars until you hit the 1000w range. I have always recommended it starting at 800 just to be safe. It will help the charging system a good bit. The list goes on and on.
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Old 01-22-2016, 07:39 AM   #30
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I always replace the pile of **** OEM ground strap with a 4 gauge cable and add a matching one to the passenger mount. I once had a ricer ask me if I ever thought of installing a "grounding kit". I swear to god those dumbasses will buy anything that has a "bolt on power" sticker...

This is sadly true lol.
As for the big three. It can always help. Obviously wouldn't hurt. However on newer cars like this it's not usually required unless your around 1000w. I honestly recommend it at 800w and higher applications. There's so many things that can be done or need to be done when it comes to having a quality car audio it's crazy. So few people lack the knowledge and just go by what the local guys tell them. Most local shops around me don't push for all the things I will because at the end of the day they just want to sell common stuff. Hence why people use capacitors instead of a second battery. The battery might run you 40/80 more than the cap. But the benefits are endless. Doing a big three upgrade will vastly help most applications and you can actually go above and beyond the big three to improve even further.
Running power wires the opposite side of rca cables is huge. Zero whitenoise transmitted this way. Going to big or too small on power ground and speaker wire is huge. Too small of power and your amp is starving. To much power isn't necessarily a bad thing but you can save money buy using a better quality wire and using the proper size gauge wire.
When strapping amps it's best to use a copper or gold plated distribution block vs running power from amp to amp. When you run amp to amp the first amp pulls all the power it needs and the left over goes to the next. When you use a distribution block each amp gets the full power it demands at any given point.

Equalizers can have a huge effect on the sound quality. Add in an equalizer with a line driver. Now your cooking. The amps will be receiving a higher voltage signal and won't have to work nearly as hard to get your true power out of them.

The gain knob is not a volume knob on the amp. Turn the gain up to much and your over powering the amps sending a dirty signal to the speakers or subs and they won't last long. The line driver equalizer helps you get the volume you want by sending a higher signal to the amps allowing them to produce a much cleaner sound while using there full power at a properly set gain without distorting the out bound signals.

Properly built boxes are critical to maximizing your subwoofer output to your taste of music. Sealed boxed will have better response but less boom. Ported boxed will have more boom but not much response for lets say country or rock listeners. If you listen to pretty much everything. Want good thump and good response than you would want to use something like a fifth order band pass box which is actually a sealed box playing into a ported box. These are very tricky boxed to get correct but when there built properly you'd be amazed as to what you hear. I have a 8" jl audio 8w7 in on of these and everyone thinks I have three 12s. It hits extremely hard and it's hits fast.

Anyone want me to continue because I can literally do this all day.
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Old 01-22-2016, 08:43 AM   #31
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This is sadly true lol.
As for the big three. It can always help. Obviously wouldn't hurt. However on newer cars like this it's not usually required unless your around 1000w. I honestly recommend it at 800w and higher applications. There's so many things that can be done or need to be done when it comes to having a quality car audio it's crazy. So few people lack the knowledge and just go by what the local guys tell them. Most local shops around me don't push for all the things I will because at the end of the day they just want to sell common stuff. Hence why people use capacitors instead of a second battery. The battery might run you 40/80 more than the cap. But the benefits are endless. Doing a big three upgrade will vastly help most applications and you can actually go above and beyond the big three to improve even further.
Running power wires the opposite side of rca cables is huge. Zero whitenoise transmitted this way. Going to big or too small on power ground and speaker wire is huge. Too small of power and your amp is starving. To much power isn't necessarily a bad thing but you can save money buy using a better quality wire and using the proper size gauge wire.
When strapping amps it's best to use a copper or gold plated distribution block vs running power from amp to amp. When you run amp to amp the first amp pulls all the power it needs and the left over goes to the next. When you use a distribution block each amp gets the full power it demands at any given point.

Equalizers can have a huge effect on the sound quality. Add in an equalizer with a line driver. Now your cooking. The amps will be receiving a higher voltage signal and won't have to work nearly as hard to get your true power out of them.

The gain knob is not a volume knob on the amp. Turn the gain up to much and your over powering the amps sending a dirty signal to the speakers or subs and they won't last long. The line driver equalizer helps you get the volume you want by sending a higher signal to the amps allowing them to produce a much cleaner sound while using there full power at a properly set gain without distorting the out bound signals.

Properly built boxes are critical to maximizing your subwoofer output to your taste of music. Sealed boxed will have better response but less boom. Ported boxed will have more boom but not much response for lets say country or rock listeners. If you listen to pretty much everything. Want good thump and good response than you would want to use something like a fifth order band pass box which is actually a sealed box playing into a ported box. These are very tricky boxed to get correct but when there built properly you'd be amazed as to what you hear. I have a 8" jl audio 8w7 in on of these and everyone thinks I have three 12s. It hits extremely hard and it's hits fast.

Anyone want me to continue because I can literally do this all day.
Please do I'm intrigued. I just learned and actually am going to order a pioneer 80DRS that has a network mode and have a front stage. It's hard having something sound good in a car with no roof.

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Old 01-22-2016, 08:57 AM   #32
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You've got a convertible? Josef what radio do you have?

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

Joser sorry for typo
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:59 AM   #33
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Funny that u say that about exhaust. I almost never listen to the radio. I c my car as more performance. Last thing i would want to do is put added weight in the back for a box. The exhaust is music to my ears.


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Agreed. But if that's really my intention, I suppose I should clear out all the crap from my car haha I'm sure about 200 lbs worth of stuff isn't helping anything

(Other than the 180lbs of that which is sand bags, which I really do need)
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by 20prima10 View Post
You've got a convertible? Josef what radio do you have?

---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

Joser sorry for typo
Well the car came with the mach 460 but I put a jvc KD R731BT in it

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Old 01-22-2016, 12:09 PM   #35
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Your off to a good start there
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