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Old 12-29-2010, 11:03 PM   #1
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Rotating assembly

Ok guys need help... I'm hitting the 487rwhp mark... The guy I get tunes from says I'm a ticking bomb b4 I break something... More likely a connector rod...
Is this true? If so what kit should I get?
I have a Procharger pushing 10psi innercooled, with a cryokit... I'm wanting more power... But it's also a d/d so i need it dependable... So what pistons do y'all suggest? Should i build mine or buy a forged short block?
As always thanks for the help
Daniel
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:49 AM   #2
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You are most definitely a ticking rime bomb, could be fine for years, could go tomorrow. MMR has some pretty good deals on short blocks, very good product and have a ton of options. That's the route I would take if I were in your shoes!
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:28 AM   #3
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Go with a forged short block spending the $$ now upgrading internals will defiantly let u handle all that power
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:35 AM   #4
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Should I just get a whole short block or upgrade my own?
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:11 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyb937
Should I just get a whole short block or upgrade my own?
Are you able to do the work yourself? If not you might ad well just do a short block IMO
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:36 AM   #6
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Re: Rotating assembly

the 05-09 gt motor is generally good at 450rwhp~ much more and yup you are just asking for it lol... may not happen any time soon and might be tomorrow. It depends on how you treat the car. I would tune it back to 450 rwhp with a nice rich a/f of around 11.5 at least. No need to blow up the car just to say you have 30 more rwhp.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:11 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by a_Gorman

Are you able to do the work yourself? If not you might ad well just do a short block IMO
Yea I have a 3 bay shop I can pull it in... And a spare car... Just worried about ordering stuff that works together...
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:43 PM   #8
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Any idea what will work best together? Brands? Flat or dome pistons?
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:03 PM   #9
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Re: Rotating assembly

Brands vary a lot, make sure you are looking at the alloy's they use for the internals (i.e. different types of steels such as cast steel, forged 5140/4130, your strong as hell 4340 and of course your micro alloys). There are lots of different makes and models but do your research first.

As for the pistons, are you planning on upping the boost? The dish top pistons will lower the compression ratio so if you rebuild everything with new internals and don't adjust the boost then you notice a bit of a drop in HP cause you will now be running a lower compression ratio. Flat top's are like stock, they vary but work for most applications. Since you are already boosted I suggest you go with dish top pistons so you can increase the boost later on, since you will have the platform with a newly rebuilt or new block.
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Starfighter
Brands vary a lot, make sure you are looking at the alloy's they use for the internals (i.e. different types of steels such as cast steel, forged 5140/4130, your strong as hell 4340 and of course your micro alloys). There are lots of different makes and models but do your research first.

As for the pistons, are you planning on upping the boost? The dish top pistons will lower the compression ratio so if you rebuild everything with new internals and don't adjust the boost then you notice a bit of a drop in HP cause you will now be running a lower compression ratio. Flat top's are like stock, they vary but work for most applications. Since you are already boosted I suggest you go with dish top pistons so you can increase the boost later on, since you will have the platform with a newly rebuilt or new block.
Thanks starfighter, I want to increase just don't want to blow anything up... Will that affect my valves?
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Old 01-02-2011, 09:17 PM   #11
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I say just take it easy on the car and save up for a forged aluminum gt500 crate engine then you can push it all you want 1000+ hp
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by GT1000
I say just take it easy on the car and save up for a forged aluminum gt500 crate engine then you can push it all you want 1000+ hp
For how much? Cause for about 3000 I can build the bottom end of mine to do that... Crank, rods, and pistons to handle 1200... But just nit sure what heads to put wit it?
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Old 01-02-2011, 10:30 PM   #13
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Re: Rotating assembly

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Originally Posted by Dannyb937 View Post
For how much? Cause for about 3000 I can build the bottom end of mine to do that... Crank, rods, and pistons to handle 1200... But just nit sure what heads to put wit it?
Yes the internals would cost you about that, however the block wouldn't be able to take it. I think the actual engine block is good for maybe 650hp (don't quote me on that), its probably a little less. Any more and you can start getting into the time-bomb situation. Sure you could throw new internals into the old block but once you get up to that level of hp then you run the risk of cracking the block and will have to start all over.

To answer your question earlier about the valves, if you go above 600-700hp you should look at getting all new heads with new valves since you have big bucks to spend. I think where you are getting at with affecting the valves is in relation to when the piston travels up if it will touch/break the valves as they open and close. As long as you don't get a stroker kit or adjust your rocker arms, springs, etc etc and keep everything in the stock dimensions then you will have no problem, once you go with a stroker kit you need to know what you are getting into or else metal can touch metal. It's once you start adjusting the length of travel of the piston that you can run into big problems. Hope that helps

As for the gt500 crate engine, if you have the pocket change for that, all the power to ya. If you want to learn as you go I would recommend getting a new forged block and start from there with the build.
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyb937

For how much? Cause for about 3000 I can build the bottom end of mine to do that... Crank, rods, and pistons to handle 1200... But just nit sure what heads to put wit it?
A MMR gt500 engine rated 1000+ hp will run you around 4k

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/..._500_parts.htm
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT1000

A MMR gt500 engine rated 1000+ hp will run you around 4k

http://www.modularmustangracing.com/..._500_parts.htm
Will that work with my stock CPU and harness?
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:30 PM   #16
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Re: Rotating assembly

Not a bad deal, the heads will run another 3-4k but well worth it. What type of car do you have now Dan?
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Starfighter
Not a bad deal, the heads will run another 3-4k but well worth it. What type of car do you have now Dan?
I have an 2005 mustang gt convertible... I want to build the motor but to be honest I'm not sure where to start... And these are way different then the foxs you have to tune and retune and then tune some more with these moduler motors... Just want a good game plan...
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyb937

Will that work with my stock CPU and harness?
You will have to play with it to make it work.... Check out the article below should help you decide if you want to engine swap.

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/fea..._gt/index.html
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:20 PM   #19
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All you need is a good set of h beams and some good dish pistons. Get je's every other piston I have installed on a high power three valve has broken. Don't waste your money on a forged crank or anything else. Use stock head gaskets as they are mls and some arp studs. With that you should be good to 700 to 750.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:22 PM   #20
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Don't waste your money on heads or cams, unless you just like the lope. The intake may let go on you at some point since it is composite but I have yet to break one. Still have a stock intake hess and cam on a 700 horse three valve I built. Got dyno sheet and pictures to prove it.
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Old 01-03-2011, 05:39 PM   #21
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Mod motor blocks are good for more than 650. Haven't broken one but they are definitely good beyond there.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:32 PM   #22
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The problem with the HP game is you are never satisfied. First it's 500 then 1000 then 1500 and so on if that's your game then just save and go for the 1000+ from the start.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:53 PM   #23
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I disagree, budget plays a huge role. Yes you always want more but in my experience once you start getting past 700 in a street car it stops being fun to drive regularly. You can take 700 in one of these fairly easily and economically if you do what I said to. You guys are talking about building dream cars with an unlimited budget. I am always more impressed when you do more with less. I own a bracket car with fullinterior that runs twelve s. Got a little over 2k invested. Tel me that's not more impressive than the guy with a 50k car that does the same.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:02 PM   #24
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Plus with that mentality, why not save and go for 1000000 hp from the start. Will build a full custom frame and add several hundred cat diesels.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:02 PM   #25
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Re: Rotating assembly

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Originally Posted by ibleedblue65 View Post
Mod motor blocks are good for more than 650. Haven't broken one but they are definitely good beyond there.
Do you have a link to some reference material? I am trying to find out where I read 650.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:03 PM   #26
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No just first hand personal experience.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:15 PM   #27
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You have to keep in mind that the 03/04 cobra block is essentially the same as the 2v gt block. How many cobras have you seen make 1000hp on stock blocks? The blocks have seen little change over the years. The mod motor block is plenty capable.
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Old 01-03-2011, 07:17 PM   #28
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If you are really concerned about the block, grab a cast iron one from a truck. Much more economical.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:09 PM   #29
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I'm just worried about breaking stuff, I've been told the first to go is the connector rods... Saw one in the shop that poked 6 holes thru the block
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:21 PM   #30
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I have seen both rods and pistons go around the 450/500 mark. Pull the motor, find a good machinist, get some je dish pistons, some manley h beams, and some arp studs. You'll be good for a while.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibleedblue65
I disagree, budget plays a huge role. Yes you always want more but in my experience once you start getting past 700 in a street car it stops being fun to drive regularly. You can take 700 in one of these fairly easily and economically if you do what I said to. You guys are talking about building dream cars with an unlimited budget. I am always more impressed when you do more with less. I own a bracket car with fullinterior that runs twelve s. Got a little over 2k invested. Tel me that's not more impressive than the guy with a 50k car that does the same.
Stops being fun after 700hp? Then more was never your intention. There is a huge difference between 400 and 700 and equally a difference between 700 and 1000+. I think what you are referring to is it's a different game after 700? It then becomes a game of traction and learning to put it to the ground but I would say no less fun.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:30 PM   #32
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Besides you can push a 4.6 to 700hp but you will be on borrowed time. If 700+ is your goal go with a bigger forged engine it will do 700+ all day long.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:32 PM   #33
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You Are exactly right but even the best of drivers get annoyed when you can't even make a simple highway pass without losing traction. It just gets ridiculous to drive and enjoy regularly. To each his own but I have driven a lot of 400+ horsepower cars (kind of comes with the job) and I enjoy a street car less than 700 and a race car with more.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by GT1000
Besides you can push a 4.6 to 700hp but you will be on borrowed time. If 700+ is your goal go with a bigger forged engine it will do 700+ all day long.
This its not true, the 4.6 is not on borrowed time at these levels. Displacement does not determine the strength of a motor.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:24 AM   #35
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This thread was referring to rebuilding a stock 4.6 not a forged one. Any time you push a motor to it's limits you shorten it's life.
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