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Old 10-27-2007, 07:48 PM   #1
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Questions.

1. I`m looking at a Shelby GT at $36999.00 (before haggling), would it be cheaper to buy a plain 08 GT and put the goodies on myself?
2. I plan on driving the crap out of this car (either a new GT or Shelby GT), how are they holding up for you guys (and gals)?
3. Why do I see a lot of women driving the Mustangs and F-bodies, but the younger guys seem to be into the imports? Is it the insurance?
4. I`m 43 years old (feel like 16 on the mental level, esp. when contemplating buying a new GT!) , am I the oldest member on this forum?
Thanks, DVII

P.S. How hard is it to install the short shift (hurst, from ford) kit?
Is the 3.55 axle option worth the price (on a plain GT)?
Can I go from 17'' to 18'' wheels without a speedometer recalibration? (found my idea car if I don`t go with the Shelby, except for the wheels)
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Old 10-28-2007, 11:09 AM   #2
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Re: Questions.

The Shelby gt is a major rip off... they do a few little things and charge you out the *** for it... Since you plan on driving the hell out of it then dont buy something like that and ruin it with high miles.

If you want performance and good looks at a low cost then a 2003/2004 cobra is where it is at. The 05+ stangs simply can not touch them. For low 20s you can have STOCK 425hp/425tq (they rate them at 390/390 but they are underrated) and for another grand about 550/550 or you can spend nearly 30k for 300/300... lol. The 03/04 cobras have a factory supercharged 4.6L DOHC engine and a 6 speed manual transmission and an independent rear suspension etc etc. The engines are hand built from the ground up and are very good and reliable.

I would buy a used 05+ body style at least so you dont take the depreciation hit if you just have to have that body style.

Young guys are driving imports because they dont know any better... very few are worth owning IMO. Most do it because they cant afford anything else and its the "in" thing to do lol.

At 43 you are not the oldest by far so dont worry.

here are a couple images of the 03/04 cobra (the engine pics are stock minus the color changes and intakes (and pulley size on the one on the left)
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:05 PM   #3
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Re: Questions.

Hey Spector V,
I have driven an 04 Cobra (new on the dealers lot back in 04) and was quite impressed. I did wonder about the reliability of the supercharger though.

I`m not into labels, but the Shelby that I drove on friday (not nearly as fast as the 04 Cobra) had that cool Hurst short shifting shifter in it, plus it was faster than the stock 08 GT that I`d tried out too. Plus the Shelby didn`t wheel hop like the stock GT did (who knows, that could have been my bumbling driving skills), and it cornered better (important to me, I like going around corners too), probably due to the fancy underpinnings I guess, plus it`s hard not to like a car that has a pop rivited hood scoop on it. But now that you mention it, I will think about the supercharged Cobra, that`s probably the deal of the century at todays used car prices, it`s just that I`m a sucker for the new "retro" look that the 05-08`s have going on. Thanks for your input Spector V.
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:30 PM   #4
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Re: Questions.

I bought a 2006 GT, and wish I would have gotten an 03/04 Cobra. Don't know if that helps you any, but it is my two cents. I just wanted the '06 at the time because it was brand new.
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Old 10-28-2007, 11:31 PM   #5
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Re: Questions.

If you want a new retro styled Mustang for performance, I would look at either the GT500 or Roush Stage 3. The GT500 has more power potential of course but the Stage 3 is suppose to be very good on a road course. These cars are not cheap though.
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:28 AM   #6
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Re: Questions.

Or you could just buy the GT and add the Roush Supercharger for about $4K, then do the suspension upgrades you want. Definately not the oldest. I wonder if I am? 45
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Old 10-29-2007, 08:53 AM   #7
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Re: Questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVII View Post
1. I`m looking at a Shelby GT at $36999.00 (before haggling), would it be cheaper to buy a plain 08 GT and put the goodies on myself?
2. I plan on driving the crap out of this car (either a new GT or Shelby GT), how are they holding up for you guys (and gals)?
3. Why do I see a lot of women driving the Mustangs and F-bodies, but the younger guys seem to be into the imports? Is it the insurance?
4. I`m 43 years old (feel like 16 on the mental level, esp. when contemplating buying a new GT!) , am I the oldest member on this forum?
Thanks, DVII

P.S. How hard is it to install the short shift (hurst, from ford) kit?
Is the 3.55 axle option worth the price (on a plain GT)?
Can I go from 17'' to 18'' wheels without a speedometer recalibration? (found my idea car if I don`t go with the Shelby, except for the wheels)
1. That is an alright price for a Shelby GT...I believe that that is right around sticker price. It would be cheaper though to buy an 07 California Spec. GT and put in the suspension, intake, and shifter parts yourself...the body kits on those cars are exactly the same, the biggest difference is the FRPP perforamce suspension and power packages along with the hurst shifter...
2. when you say driving the crap out of it, do you mean lots of highway driving or lots of racing or what? I auto-x my 05, and its on Koni Adjustable shocks and Kumho R-compoud tires and it has 38K miles on...now that is some pretty hard driving, but I dont know if you are going to go to that extent...but most of the problems that Ford had on the 05's have since been corrected in the newer year models.
3.The Fast & Furious movies started this craze in the minds of young people that you can take these little bitty 4-banger import whatevers and build them up to these big super street machines for next to nothing...another reason is that the insurance on a "suped-up" 94 honda civic or whatever is much cheaper that on a V8 or even v6 Mustang for someone who is 17-18 years old...
4.and you are only as old as you feel...I am 24 and there are days that I feel like I am 50...so its all in your head really, but no, you arent the oldest here...not that any of us look at age anyway...(as long as she is over 18 haha)

I have a Roush short shifter in my 05, its a very easy install for short shifter with the new shift linkage setup on the 05+ transmissions...some people dont like the tranny setup, but its an easy install; took me about 45 minutes to an hour with basic hand tools...
Definitely get the 3.55's as they will help your launch and acceleration immensely over the stock 3.27's now or whatever they come with...Mine came with 3.55's stock back in 05 for the manual trannies...of course, you could always get the 3.27's and have 3.73's or 4.10's put in too if you so desired...
you will be able to put 18's on the car without and speedo issues if they overall wheel/tire diameter is the same as it would be for the 17" wheel/tire combo....the stock 17"x8 wheels come with a 235/55/17 which is a 27" diameter....that means on the 18" wheel you will need about a 235/50/18" tire if you decide to stick with the stock width tires...

and now for my little rant; "Most" of the people on this site, especially 03/04 Cobra owners, *cough*cough*, not going to mention anyone by name, don't like the S197 (05+) Mustangs for various reasons...While I do enjoy the powerplant very much in the 03/04 Cobras, I don't like the cars themselves...I had a new-edge body style Mustang and I got tired of it very quickly....I personally prefer the look of the S197, even it weighs a ton...or closer to 2 to be exact...The S197 GT is a helluva car for sub $30K if you ask me...My only complaint is the fact that it weighs so much...I do love all Mustangs really, save for the Cobra II's, IMO the worst car ever built, but in general, I like all Mustangs and would tell you to buy whatever you think you would be most happy with based on performance, looks, or whatever it is that draws you to them...Power and performance are very important to Me, but being that you spend a large portion of your life in the car, it's also nice to have something you feell that you look good in or that you feel looks good...and I think the S197's look much better than any SN95 ever could IMO.../rant

oh, and the reason that GT's wheel hop and the Shelby GT's don't is because of the suspension setup...The Shelby GTs have lower springs on them and they are lowered such that the rearend of the body is basically just aboug resting on the rear bump stops...The suspension configurations between the two cars is very different so they will handle very differently...From a basic launch the GT gets "more" traction to the ground than the Shelby GTs do which is why they hop like the do....but as far as the power difference between the two, the Shelbys really only have an intake and a tune which ups their power over a stock GT by maybe 20 or so hp...hope all of this helps lol
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:05 AM   #8
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Re: Questions.

Hell !!!! Your just a young'en I'm 57 !!!!!!!! 03/04 cobra would be the way to go or check these stangs out Big 3 Performance Online Store
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:21 PM   #9
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Re: Questions.

Thanks to everybody for the insight, now I really am confused (just kidding). Herb, thanks for the link (added it to my faves), I live out in the country and only have access to dial up, but it was worth the wait to download the pictures from that site.

Y2EOLOL5OGWT, when I was younger, I was into sportbikes and liked to carve up the twisties if you know what I mean, this is what I meant by driving the crap out of it. I probably lean more to that direction, than say, the drag scene (not that I would pass up a stoplight drama if it presented itself). I had thought of the autocross, but wondered if it would get outrageously expensive after awhile (my brother raced the WERA roadbike races for a bit, but it cost a fortune to do it). Plus, I would bet that the closest autocross would be quite a ways from where I live.

Everybody`s car that is posted here looks great, once again, thanks for the input!
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:27 PM   #10
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Re: Questions.

Something else I noticed which is strange, everybody who posted on this thread is a southerner, myself included.
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:32 PM   #11
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Re: Questions.

What can we say, we are all just good people. )

Back to the Mustang topic, it all depends on personall preferance, most importantly, buy the car you want.
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:24 PM   #12
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Re: Questions.

Quote:
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Something else I noticed which is strange, everybody who posted on this thread is a southerner, myself included.
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:53 PM   #13
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Re: Questions.

Yankee By Birth Southern by choice


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Old 10-29-2007, 01:56 PM   #14
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Re: Questions.

The 03/04 cobra is made to handle rather good (for a mustang) from the factory and has more potential in the corners than the 05+ in many ways~ but at the end of the day the mustang is NOT a corner carver... without a ton invested so... you just have to live with it. If you dont like the looks of the 99-04 thats fine, I like the 05+ myself they just do not have the power to back it up for the most part.

The 03/04 cobras are very reliable and probably stronger and will last longer than most other mustangs when taken care of. You can find GREAT condition ones for a good price if you look around. They will be much easier to find like new as more people take care of them. Also over the last two years my car has not went down in value one bit lol.
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:55 PM   #15
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Re: Questions.

Well, at first I was considering a C5 vette (which does handle great in my opinion), but there is something about the `Stangs (except for a 70 fastback and a 72 notchback, the late models are all I have ever driven) that I really like, I can`t put my finger on it, but it`s there never the less. The Vettes I drove were plenty fast, but all except one sounded like a piece of rattle trap crap (93- up F bodies also included) IMHO. Plus they seemed HUGE if you know what I mean, it was like piloting a river barge to some extent. I am willing to trade a little cornering prowess for that indefinable quality that the Mustang has...plus chicks dig it (just kidding, been married for 19 years).
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:02 PM   #16
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Re: Questions.

Hey Spector V, when I was lurking this site, I think it was one of your post in which you were talking about a dealer that had a Shelby GT, and you were going to tell him that you weren`t ready for a downgrade just yet...LMAO! when I read that.
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:11 PM   #17
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Re: Questions.

If you are looking to drive the hell out of it through corners and such, I would go for whatever one looks better to you. The new gt's can be made to be as fast as an 03/04. Not worth buying a shelby gt when you can do it cheaper yourself. more fun that way too.

Maybe ts me but I like starting from almost nothing and ending up with something, the only reason I havent sold my v6 yet. Don't get me wrong I have tried but never got any offers I could live with.

Point being, if you buy the car you want on instinct, you can always make it into something you'll love even more. maybe even shed a tear when the day comes to get rid of it.
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:25 PM   #18
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Re: Questions.

Hey KJ, I checked out your V6 `Stang, you have bound to have embarrassed a few people with that "sleeper". Nice! (it`s those wheels, I would have never guessed...)
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Old 10-29-2007, 05:02 PM   #19
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Re: Questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV View Post

If you want performance and good looks at a low cost then a 2003/2004 cobra is where it is at. The 05+ stangs simply can not touch them. For low 20s you can have STOCK 425hp/425tq (they rate them at 390/390 but they are underrated) and for another grand about 550/550 or you can spend nearly 30k for 300/300... lol. The 03/04 cobras have a factory supercharged 4.6L DOHC engine and a 6 speed manual transmission and an independent rear suspension etc etc. The engines are hand built from the ground up and are very good and reliable.
Agreed, I've got one I'll sell yah for about 25... around 60K miles, immaculate paint, has the UPR Kit on it(run 11.99's for $1199), Steeda Tri Ax, Mineral grey.....
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:04 PM   #20
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Re: Questions.

It's all about what you want, personally, the S197's are too big for me overall. But... I have owned my 02 since 02 so it may be a style preference in there as well lol.

But, overall, don't buy the shelby GT. You can do the same to a stock GT and leave alot of money in your pocket.

Also, you mentioned autox and expensive, it's only as expensive as you want to get into it.....
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:54 PM   #21
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Re: Questions.

Yes you can autox for no more that a set of rims/tires and a suspension kit.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:52 AM   #22
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Re: Questions.

Quote:
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The new gt's can be made to be as fast as an 03/04.
How much money are we talking about spending here?

IMHO the main reason to to buy a S197 over a Terminator(aside from looks if you like the retro thing) is to get the modern chassis. Its a better chassis, period. It only real problem problem is its too heavy. A new GT weighs about as much as a Terminator and it has a N/A SOHC motor using an aluminum block and a 5 speed manual or auto tranny with a SRA out back. Still I have heard Terminator owners who have modded their cars for roadracing say that less modded S197's give them fits.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:30 PM   #23
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Re: Questions.

I never said anything about cost

You can build 197's to be as fast as an 03-04 on the strip. Top end highway racing I would say it would be a bit tougher, as well as roadtrack with the irs and weight difference. But when cost is no option, and you have the time, almost anything is possible.
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:54 PM   #24
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Re: Questions.

there is an 05 gt on another forum with a procharger at 10psi pushing 500/500 and running high 11s i think... but thats about as high as you go with those without major investment (if you dont count the blower investment to begin with)
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:58 PM   #25
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Re: Questions.

GT-EATER just bought a Shelby Gt and loves it.
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Old 10-30-2007, 09:19 PM   #26
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Re: Questions.

Quote:
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GT-EATER just bought a Shelby Gt and loves it.
I forgot that, supposed to be getting a ride pretty soon.
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Old 11-05-2007, 07:55 PM   #27
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Re: Questions.

I have an 07 GT with basically all of the performance modifications that the shelby comes with and still had enough money to buy roush rims without spending as much as a shelby cost. The performance parts standard on the Shelby GT cost about $3500 out of the ford racing parts catalog. Unless you really like how the car looks, I dont see much benefit in buying it. If you are going to beat the bag out of it by auto crossing it, It doesnt seem like you would be worried about the collector value of the Shelby either.
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Old 11-06-2007, 04:12 PM   #28
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Re: Questions.

Hey CT07GT,
Yes, this is what I was planning on doing now, i.e. pretty much what you have done to yours. I actually don`t care too much for the grill treatment on the Shelby myself anyway.

I thought I had me a leftover new 07 (black, manual trans, premium GT, 3.55 option, sport appearance option, and that was it) (had a lot of incentives on it) picked out to buy this past weekend, but it was too good to be true, they had sent it off to some customizer that I`d never heard of to "doll it up" a bit, if you know what I mean.
Oh well, if oil keeps going thru the roof (touched $97 a barrel today) it won`t be long till Ford puts some sort of good incentive package on the 08`s I think (besides a lousy $1000 off).

Thanks for the input, and take care.
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Old 11-12-2007, 09:52 PM   #29
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Re: Questions.

Ok everyone lets face facts, the S197 cars are simply better vehicles all around. The platform was designed to be a sports car not a family car like the old Fox platform cars. Lets not even get into how much better for the convertible owners. It has a longer wheel base (101.3 to 107.1) and wider track (1") and a front suspension designed for a $40,000 luxury car all for improved handling performance. The position of the engine was optimized the drive train improved at the same time drastically improving NVH and overall ride and drive quality. Lets not even get into the safety advantages of the S197 over the old fox. The old Fox platform cars were good for their day and presented great value and still do today. Lets put it this way would any of the people sticking with the old Fox platform change it out for the original Mustang platform built off the Falcon?? No of course not they are cool but drive and handle like crap. Face it the Mustang has evolved and for the better.
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Old 11-13-2007, 07:47 AM   #30
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Re: Questions.

^^ I think the Mustang did make a huge leap forward in 05 but they left out one MAJOR factor... performance in the engine department... the mustang has been down on power for YEARS and they obviously see no reason to fix this issue... The main reason I did not go with an 05+ when I was looking for another vehicle back in 05 was they were slow ... way way slow for the money (low 13s and ONLY 300hp... an ls1 has been doing better than that for YEARS) so they lost my vote and I picked up something with actual hp/tq .... other than that I like them (the weight blows... but there isnt much they can do about it that wont cost a ton that would be passed down to the consumers)
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:32 AM   #31
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Re: Questions.

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Originally Posted by SpectorV View Post
^^ I think the Mustang did make a huge leap forward in 05 but they left out one MAJOR factor... performance in the engine department... the mustang has been down on power for YEARS and they obviously see no reason to fix this issue... The main reason I did not go with an 05+ when I was looking for another vehicle back in 05 was they were slow ... way way slow for the money (low 13s and ONLY 300hp... an ls1 has been doing better than that for YEARS) so they lost my vote and I picked up something with actual hp/tq .... other than that I like them (the weight blows... but there isnt much they can do about it that wont cost a ton that would be passed down to the consumers)
How can you say that 05+ GT's are underpowered? They have a significant power increase over the previous generation of GT's...Mid-13's for <$25K is a pretty quick car for that kind of money brand new...and I don't understand how anyone can compare a GT to a Cobra or even LS1 in power...if an 05 GT were sold with as much power as an 03/04 cobra, then those cobra's wouldn't hold any value whatsoever...

There are three types of Mustangs in general:
(1) LX/v6 - public economy "sports" car
(2) GT/v8 - PONY car - a little bit of kick of cheap
(3) Cobra Models - "MUSCLE" Car

LS1 Camaros/TA's etc. are in a totally different class than a Mustang GT...Those GM's are in the same class with the MUSCLE car cobra models...and those cobras beat the snot out of those LS1's for the same $35K price range (new car price that is)...

If a Mustang GT had the power output of the cobra's, the pony car would be dead and the cobra would cease to be because no one in their right mind would pay for a cobra what you could get out of a GT...

Simply put: The 05+ Mustang GT has more than enough power for the CLASS that it's in and it handle's 100 times better...There would be no point in Ford making a 350-400+ HP Mustang GT because then Cobra's would cease to exist...Of course, that would be a good thing for you Termy guys because it would mean that you get buy those cars for pennies...

/rant...
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:49 AM   #32
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Re: Questions.

Its just that since 1993 the camaro has walked all over the mustang... and they are very close in price (the camaro/ta/firebird are more espensive but not so much that puts them out of the same price range). The new mustang should have 350/350 at least... seeing these dyno stock as a horrible 260~ is just horrible.
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:29 PM   #33
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Re: Questions.

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Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT View Post
How can you say that 05+ GT's are underpowered? They have a significant power increase over the previous generation of GT's...Mid-13's for <$25K is a pretty quick car for that kind of money brand new...and I don't understand how anyone can compare a GT to a Cobra or even LS1 in power...if an 05 GT were sold with as much power as an 03/04 cobra, then those cobra's wouldn't hold any value whatsoever...

There are three types of Mustangs in general:
(1) LX/v6 - public economy "sports" car
(2) GT/v8 - PONY car - a little bit of kick of cheap
(3) Cobra Models - "MUSCLE" Car

LS1 Camaros/TA's etc. are in a totally different class than a Mustang GT...Those GM's are in the same class with the MUSCLE car cobra models...and those cobras beat the snot out of those LS1's for the same $35K price range (new car price that is)...

If a Mustang GT had the power output of the cobra's, the pony car would be dead and the cobra would cease to be because no one in their right mind would pay for a cobra what you could get out of a GT...

Simply put: The 05+ Mustang GT has more than enough power for the CLASS that it's in and it handle's 100 times better...There would be no point in Ford making a 350-400+ HP Mustang GT because then Cobra's would cease to exist...Of course, that would be a good thing for you Termy guys because it would mean that you get buy those cars for pennies...

/rant...
If you ask a LS1 guy he will tell you his car is just as good as a Terminator stock.

Since when did a S197 become a 100x better at handling? Better handling yes, alot better no. Atleast not in stock form.

Z28's and Mustang GT's were in the same price range.

300 HP from a SOHC 4.6L motor thats made to run on regular octane is pretty good IMO.

Cobras are dead.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:18 PM   #34
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Re: Questions.

Ok Hold on! you can not compare a stock GT with a Cobra!! If you want to talk Cobra than you have to talk Shelby GT500 (500hp) or soon the GT500KR (550hp) or you can order yourself a Super Snake (605hp)from Shelby. So lets get off the topic of comparing the stock GT with the Cobra it was never intended to replace the cobra, that distinction goes to the Shelby. Bottom line is as a platform to build more than a drag strip car the new S197 is worlds ahead of the old Fox cars.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:02 PM   #35
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Re: Questions.

dont get a shelby. they give you about 1oo more horse on the dyno but no other upgrades at all except exterior. i have a 07 gt/cs. same vodykit as a shelby but 15 grand cheaper. get a california special and pro charge it. u will save tons of money and blow a shelby away
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