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Old 08-04-2012, 03:07 PM   #1
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Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.



C&L Racer, Pypes Full exhaust, Steeda CMDPs and Steeda Pulleys, Brenspeed Detroit Rocker Cams, Shaftmasters aluminum one piece driveshaft.


Not bad at all for 4.10 gears. 93 tune by Chris Tillman.

I love it

340hp/320tq

I really can't think of anything else I could add short of a SC.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:10 PM   #2
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

good #'s!

not gonna add the FRPP intake?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #3
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

I am going to hold off on it since for less than half the money, the CMDPs SEEM to be good for more than half the gains from an FRRP manifold. If I go SC, I think I'll do it.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:34 PM   #4
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Awesome #s for an NA car I would love to install a set of cams and the FRRP intake manifold on my 09 GT ( can't do the cmdp on 09s) But not sure if they would fly when it came time for emissions inspection here in pa.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:52 PM   #5
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stemar View Post
Awesome #s for an NA car I would love to install a set of cams and the FRRP intake manifold on my 09 GT ( can't do the cmdp on 09s) But not sure if they would fly when it came time for emissions inspection here in pa.
My car does not pass emissions.

I live in Philly.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #6
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Centri or twin screw?
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:18 PM   #7
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Just Brenspeed's Paxton package.

---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:14 PM ----------

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Old 08-04-2012, 07:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

C&L Racer, Pypes Full exhaust, Steeda CMDPs and Steeda Pulleys, Brenspeed Detroit Rocker Cams, Shaftmasters aluminum one piece driveshaft.

Not bad at all for 4.10 gears. 93 tune by Chris Tillman.

I love it

340hp/320tq

I really can't think of anything else I could add short of a SC.
I think you just made up my mind on cams. I am putting down 309 with CL Racer 93 tune, Long tube headers with a catted x pipe. Someone just recently posted that cams are only good for sound and started a whole debate. Looks like I could potentially add another 30 to the wheels with the brenspeed cams. Did you change your tuner from the Diablo tune that came with the intake or just get a new tune?
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:38 PM   #9
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii View Post
My car does not pass emissions.

I live in Philly.
Awesome Then you must have a hook up
I also have a hook up on the visual part Im just not sure of weather the obdII ecu scan part of the inspection can tell weather your ecu has been reflashed and get failed for that??? My last car was a per 96 so it was just a visual inspection for emissions I did not have to deal with this plug your car into the computer and as long as it thinks everything is ok you get a sticker. I wish the state would just leave us alone to play with our TOYS
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:54 PM   #10
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

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I think you just made up my mind on cams. I am putting down 309 with CL Racer 93 tune, Long tube headers with a catted x pipe. Someone just recently posted that cams are only good for sound and started a whole debate. Looks like I could potentially add another 30 to the wheels with the brenspeed cams. Did you change your tuner from the Diablo tune that came with the intake or just get a new tune?
FRRP Cams are generally good for sound or just a little power, most other cams will almost always make 25-35WHP. There is NO debate., brenspeed has dyno after dyno of their cams.

My C&L Came with the SCT X3 tuner, Chris Tillman just used it to write his own tune.

Quote:
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Awesome Then you must have a hook up
I also have a hook up on the visual part Im just not sure of weather the obdII ecu scan part of the inspection can tell weather your ecu has been reflashed and get failed for that??? My last car was a per 96 so it was just a visual inspection for emissions I did not have to deal with this plug your car into the computer and as long as it thinks everything is ok you get a sticker. I wish the state would just leave us alone to play with our TOYS
I have two options. Option 1 is now out of the question since I am catless.

If you are catted, they just sniff a different cars' exhaust. If you are catless like me where the tuner turns the 02 off then they will never be 'ready' so what I do is pay a hefty penny to just get an official sticker.

Where in pa are you from?
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:17 PM   #11
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

They dont do the exhaust sniff test over here in my county they just do a visual and connect the service stations emissions computer up to your obdII port on your car. I plan to keep at least HI fow cats on my car
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 PM   #12
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You can start to build your suspension and decreasing the weight of the car by swapping out OEM undercarriage stuff w aftermarket... it will make your car put it to the floor much better

I want a aluminum drive shaft so bad....

Yes u do not need an intake manifold when u have cmdp the power per cost gain is too small

After undercarriage get your stock heads port n polished... in a perfect world u could get your motor blue printed and balenced...
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:29 AM   #13
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stemar View Post
They dont do the exhaust sniff test over here in my county they just do a visual and connect the service stations emissions computer up to your obdII port on your car. I plan to keep at least HI fow cats on my car
With high flow cats the emissions obd test should be no issue then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silversky545 View Post
You can start to build your suspension and decreasing the weight of the car by swapping out OEM undercarriage stuff w aftermarket... it will make your car put it to the floor much better

I want a aluminum drive shaft so bad....

Yes u do not need an intake manifold when u have cmdp the power per cost gain is too small

After undercarriage get your stock heads port n polished... in a perfect world u could get your motor blue printed and balenced...
I am done with the money pit........for now haha
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii
I am going to hold off on it since for less than half the money, the CMDPs SEEM to be good for more than half the gains from an FRRP manifold. If I go SC, I think I'll do it.
Forgive my ignorance but what are CMDPs?
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:27 PM   #15
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Charge motion delete plates

Our year cars have 8 butterfly valves under the upper intake manifold... these delete plates... delete them, allowing better air flow
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #16
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Charge motion delete plates

Our year cars have 8 butterfly valves under the upper intake manifold... these delete plates... delete them, allowing better air flow
Okay, thanks.
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:45 PM   #17
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

You have some sticky tires already?
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Old 08-05-2012, 03:20 PM   #18
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

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You have some sticky tires already?
Nailing 1.873 60 on street tires as it is, I will see how far I can go on my 275 Nitto 555s before I move up tires with the new power.. i will stay with a street tire no matter what but I'd go wider if anything.
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Old 08-05-2012, 04:11 PM   #19
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

WoW....... Great numbers and beautiful lines you have. Tuned very good.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:29 AM   #20
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Had some minor issues with my last tune. On the dyno now getting a new one. Almost the same mods, we'll see how they match up.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:37 AM   #21
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

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Had some minor issues with my last tune. On the dyno now getting a new one. Almost the same mods, we'll see how they match up.
hmm, what is 'almost'?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
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hmm, what is 'almost'?
CAI, Pypes LT's with o/r H and violators, 62mm TB, Steeda UDP's, Detroit Rockers cams and 4.10's.
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenGT07

CAI, Pypes LT's with o/r H and violators, 62mm TB, Steeda UDP's, Detroit Rockers cams and 4.10's.
What's different?
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Old 08-06-2012, 10:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
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What's different?
He has CDMP'S and the Driveshaft. I have the Aftermarket TB.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:45 AM   #25
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
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He has CDMP'S and the Driveshaft. I have the Aftermarket TB.
I also have an x pipe over h pipe.

Keep us posted when you dyno? When is it? Also what was wrong with your last tune? Did you dyno it?
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

I also have an x pipe over h pipe.

Keep us posted when you dyno? When is it? Also what was wrong with your last tune? Did you dyno it?
It's on the dyno now. My last tune was a dyno tune (before the UDP's and 4.10's). I was having issues with the car stalling during downshifts every once in awhile and it was running really rich. This should fix that and give me an idea of how much the 4.10's and UDP's changed things.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #27
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

cool! Keep us posted
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:27 PM   #28
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cool! Keep us posted
Ok. Disclaimer: it's probably over 100 degrees here in FL. But mine came out to 332 rwhp. I was at 340 in NC before the UDP'S and gears.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:03 PM   #29
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
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Ok. Disclaimer: it's probably over 100 degrees here in FL. But mine came out to 332 rwhp. I was at 340 in NC before the UDP'S and gears.
No need for disclaimer. 4.10s kill HP numbers because they increase frictional loss. I would be willing to bet you would make a little more with cmdps over and no throttle body. There are few dynos sustaining it's gains for a non S/C mid HP engine.

I would say that is a great dyno. Now take it to the track
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #30
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

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No need for disclaimer. 4.10s kill HP numbers because they increase frictional loss. I would be willing to bet you would make a little more with cmdps over and no throttle body. There are few dynos sustaining it's gains for a non S/C mid HP engine.

I would say that is a great dyno. Now take it to the track
Yeah, I knew it would go down with the gears. As far as the TB goes, I didn't dyno right after, so I don't know about HP gains. Brenspeed says they got 7whp, Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords said 8... whatever. I don't know or really care if I picked up HP with that. I felt like the throttle response was a lot faster though. Maybe that was just wishful thinking, but a lot of other people said the same thing. Then again, maybe I just needed to clean my old one. I'm gonna see if I can get down to the track in Gainsville or Orlando this weekend.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:19 PM   #31
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Tb is a supporting mod.... if you have cmdp cai headers mid pipe high flow mufflers a tb will give you gains... stop focusing on hp numbers... it's how efficient your motor operates under load... 275 rwhp lx hatch ran consistent mid to high 12s ... same as a 400 give or take ls1 ss... not to mention heads,cams, intake manifold... if you plan to get the 3 I just mentioned then you will need a tb

As for the gears... I thought they helped w dyno numbers??? If you have grippy tires... I do know one piece aluminum drive shafts can show upwards of 25 hp w the right supporting mods
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:28 AM   #32
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Quote:
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Tb is a supporting mod.... if you have cmdp cai headers mid pipe high flow mufflers a tb will give you gains... stop focusing on hp numbers... it's how efficient your motor operates under load... 275 rwhp lx hatch ran consistent mid to high 12s ... same as a 400 give or take ls1 ss... not to mention heads,cams, intake manifold... if you plan to get the 3 I just mentioned then you will need a tb

As for the gears... I thought they helped w dyno numbers??? If you have grippy tires... I do know one piece aluminum drive shafts can show upwards of 25 hp w the right supporting mods
Highest I have seen on a DS is 15 WHP but it is just a number right? They're generally good for 1.5-2.0 in the 1/4. We'll see. Running at ATCO tonight. An LS1 SS will run high 12s with tires only. They do not need 400 HP.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

Highest I have seen on a DS is 15 WHP but it is just a number right? They're generally good for 1.5-2.0 in the 1/4. We'll see. Running at ATCO tonight. An LS1 SS will run high 12s with tires only. They do not need 400 HP.
If you race, I'd say that's money well spent on a ds if your #s are accurate.

---------- Post added at 07:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 AM ----------

Good luck at the track, let us know how you did.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:50 AM   #34
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

Oh I will I film all my runs so it should be fun.

---------- Post added at 07:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 AM ----------

Quote:
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As for the gears... I thought they helped w dyno numbers???
Gears help produce a little more torque, but the higher the gear, the higher the drive train loss, not by much. It isn't as bad as its rep. Example, if you lose 15% frictional loss on 3.55s then 4.10s can be 17-18%. That and the fact since the gears wind out sooner, HP can't be multiplied as much. Again, the difference is not some astronomical number but noticeable on a dyno.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:05 AM   #35
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Re: Bolt on N/A Dyno with Detroit Rocker cams.

**** times! The car ran SLOWER. Here are my only guesses.

My limiter was originally set to 6800 but I would shift at 6600. When I got the car dyno tuned, the limiter was 6500 for some reason. My guy told me it was set that way since the cams stop BUILDING power at that point. Which is true BUT they had not dipped yet. They have shown in other dynos I have searched that they hold steady until about 7k. I do not have the valve train for 7k so 6800 is the highest I can go safely.

Since cams make power up top vs down low, the limiter being lower is killing my shift point for the land point. I ran 13.087 @ 107.80 with a 1.852 60'. The new 60 is a personal best despite everything else so I was excited for a great run but I banged the limiter in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. By it pulling harder, coupled with a lower limiter, my shifttiming was horribly off.

I reflashed it with the same tune, only change being the limiter from 6500 to 6800. Ran again. With a 1.9 60' I got a 13.026 at 109.00 MPH. This is not right, good launch, no banging the limiter. Throttle response was also a huge issue since the cams.

My explanation is simply on the dyno the car obviously is accelerated slowly but at the track it may be pulling timing, or simply, the peak HP is a nice number but the tune itself may have an issue.

So after 4 ****ty *** runs I go home. I know the heat played a factor but with a composite manifold, it isn't as huge an issue. I should have still trapped 110.5 to 111.5 in the 82 degree 78% humidity.

I go home frustrated and go load an email tune I got before I installed the parts from my original tuning solution. All my old runs were on email tunes. The dyno tune should only been better BUT that was not the case.

After loading the bama email tune and the limiter being at 6800, I go for a test drive.

WOW!! ANYONE could tell how much better it ran. The car raped in all 3 first gears on the email tune vs the dyno tune, which again, obviously should have been better. I was breaking the tires loose on the street in 2nd by just punching it around 35 MPH. Something I could not do on the dyno tune.

So, now I am going back next Tuesday to try the new tune, then I will bring the tuner in case there is need to revert or compare tunes.

I am happy I seem to have resolved the issue, but sad that the extra money spent on a dyno tune did not yield positive results.

Tires were not an issue at the track having nailed a 1.852 60' despite the new goodies launching at 4500 RPM
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