351 swap into s197 - Mustang Evolution

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Old 11-02-2013, 05:15 PM   #1
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351 swap into s197

Possible? What is needed?
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:47 PM   #2
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Can't be that much. Not much is really required? No ecm, no electronics, carbed.
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:39 AM   #3
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I feel like I read more butthurt posts then anything funny or informative anymore...
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 02GTvert View Post
When you don't have **** to do..you tend to dick around....he probably has the idea but won't actually go through like 90% of the swap questions asked on this forum. It would be an interesting build to follow though.

Lighten up buddy..
Actually I already blew my motor so its buy another, fully forged 4.6 or 5.0 stroker or do something different.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by alrefire View Post
In his defense, swapping a motor takes lots of money.
I just can't see how its going to take a lot of money. Get a 351w with a T5 ($500). Refresh it ($250). Get rid of my ECM, put throttle linkages in the car, get a custom driveshaft to fit T5 and 8.8 rear ($800 OR get an adapter). And figure out wiring on how to wire gauges and get a fuel pump regulator to fill carb bowl while utilizing in tank pump.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 08mustanggt View Post
Actually I already blew my motor so its buy another, fully forged 4.6 or 5.0 stroker or do something different. ---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ---------- I just can't see how its going to take a lot of money. Get a 351w with a T5 ($500). Refresh it ($250). Get rid of my ECM, put throttle linkages in the car, get a custom driveshaft to fit T5 and 8.8 rear ($800 OR get an adapter). And figure out wiring on how to wire gauges and get a fuel pump regulator to fill carb bowl while utilizing in tank pump.
It's the little things that add up..you'll make more trips to autozone than you have your entire life..lol. no, but being without the ECM I'm not sure how it will be..wiring gauges may be the fun part..it won't bolt right up to the k will it? May as well just get a custom k if they don't make one for that motor and coil overs up front. Just a thought..I haven't heard/read anything about this swap in an s197.
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #6
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Just throw a 4v in there with a turbo... Termi swap that bad boy with a turbo
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:43 AM   #7
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It's the little things that add up..you'll make more trips to autozone than you have your entire life..lol. no, but being without the ECM I'm not sure how it will be..wiring gauges may be the fun part..it won't bolt right up to the k will it? May as well just get a custom k if they don't make one for that motor and coil overs up front. Just a thought..I haven't heard/read anything about this swap in an s197.
Wont bolt directly to the k, but luckily, BMR makes a custom K member made EXACTLY for this swap and it already has 351 mounts for $400-450! Can't beat that haha! I know going back to a pushrod engine is a step back from my turboed 4.6, but like I said, the 4.6 is blown for the time being and when I pull It, I'm going to personally work on it for a year or two and then drop it back in the s197 and drop the 351 (which will actually be a 408/427 stroker) in a 87-93 fox (keep away from the four eyes lol!) That's my plan atleast lol! If I could do the swap for $2, 000, I would be happy with that.

---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ----------

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Just throw a 4v in there with a turbo... Termi swap that bad boy with a turbo
Don't know where to get a termi and I plan on reusing the 4.6 and 351 in seperate cars
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:47 AM   #8
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Wont bolt directly to the k, but luckily, BMR makes a custom K member made EXACTLY for this swap and it already has 351 mounts for $400-450! Can't beat that haha! I know going back to a pushrod engine is a step back from my turboed 4.6, but like I said, the 4.6 is blown for the time being and when I pull It, I'm going to personally work on it for a year or two and then drop it back in the s197 and drop the 351 (which will actually be a 408/427 stroker) in a 87-93 fox (keep away from the four eyes lol!) That's my plan atleast lol! If I could do the swap for $2, 000, I would be happy with that. ---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ---------- Don't know where to get a termi and I plan on reusing the 4.6 and 351 in seperate cars
You can buy a crate with warranty from napa
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 08mustanggt View Post
Wont bolt directly to the k, but luckily, BMR makes a custom K member made EXACTLY for this swap and it already has 351 mounts for $400-450! Can't beat that haha! I know going back to a pushrod engine is a step back from my turboed 4.6, but like I said, the 4.6 is blown for the time being and when I pull It, I'm going to personally work on it for a year or two and then drop it back in the s197 and drop the 351 (which will actually be a 408/427 stroker) in a 87-93 fox (keep away from the four eyes lol!) That's my plan atleast lol! If I could do the swap for $2, 000, I would be happy with that. ---------- Post added at 09:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 AM ---------- Don't know where to get a termi and I plan on reusing the 4.6 and 351 in seperate cars
Ohh niice! Yea 2k for a swap would be pretty damn good. But be prepared to possibly double with niknaks..goodluck man. Make it happen!
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:01 AM   #10
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You can buy a crate with warranty from napa
Could you shoot me a link?
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by 08mustanggt View Post

Actually I already blew my motor so its buy another, fully forged 4.6 or 5.0 stroker or do something different.

---------- Post added at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 AM ----------



I just can't see how its going to take a lot of money. Get a 351w with a T5 ($500). Refresh it ($250). Get rid of my ECM, put throttle linkages in the car, get a custom driveshaft to fit T5 and 8.8 rear ($800 OR get an adapter). And figure out wiring on how to wire gauges and get a fuel pump regulator to fill carb bowl while utilizing in tank pump.
Please tell me you didn't blow it with that on3 turbo?! another one bites the dust
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:06 AM   #12
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Please tell me you didn't blow it with that on3 turbo?! another one bites the dust
Blew it because I ran too much boost :/ my own mistake lol. I knew I was on borrowed time
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:08 AM   #13
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Blew it because I ran too much boost :/ my own mistake lol. I knew I was on borrowed time
Noooo. Well hopefully ppl will listen to y'alls experiences and never install that crap on there cars
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:09 AM   #14
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Noooo. Well hopefully ppl will listen to y'alls experiences and never install that crap on there cars
Hehe no turbo for me!
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Old 11-03-2013, 10:20 AM   #15
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Noooo. Well hopefully ppl will listen to y'alls experiences and never install that crap on there cars
Actually, the kit is magnificent! I absolutely love it! Worked without a hitch. A little bit of Mcgivering was needed but its a great kit!
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:03 PM   #16
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08mustanggt didn't you just have your car tuned at steeda like last week :-O ?!?!
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #17
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08mustanggt didn't you just have your car tuned at steeda like last week :-O ?!?!
Yes I did haha! It was like two weeks ago.
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Old 11-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #18
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Yes I did haha! It was like two weeks ago.
I just don't see how ppl can just throw money away like that. Senseless to me.
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:32 PM   #19
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I just don't see how ppl can just throw money away like that. Senseless to me.
it's EASY !! just make more

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

08mustanggt

as the racing season is over I would consider selling my engine... rated to handle over 1000 HP reliably you could put your turbo on full blast and be full throttle again in 1 week
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Old 11-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #20
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Get a Boss 429 engine
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Old 11-03-2013, 04:20 PM   #21
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I just don't see how ppl can just throw money away like that. Senseless to me.
How is that throwing money away? Yes, I dynoed it to blow it up the next week on purpose. Like wtf lol

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

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it's EASY !! just make more

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

08mustanggt

as the racing season is over I would consider selling my engine... rated to handle over 1000 HP reliably you could put your turbo on full blast and be full throttle again in 1 week
Is it a just a forged 4.6 or stroked? And same 3v engine or 5.4? Lastly, how much are you asking?
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:05 PM   #22
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just tries sending you a pm but your box is full
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #23
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Try again!
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #24
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Get a Boss 429 engine
aaaaaaand yeah. Thanks for bringing up a recurring dream of mine haha!
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:14 AM   #25
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Possible? What is needed?
Funny you should ask. I just did a cost/parts list evaluation for that very swap.

Pushrod swap into s197

Keep in mind that I'm starting with a 2012 V6/auto car, and the cost/parts list is for swapping both the motor and trans. Assuming all new parts are used, expect $25k, including shipping and 3rd-party fabrication (if any is needed).

I also looked into the option of building my own long block, and the cost is about the same as buying a crate motor.
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:46 PM   #26
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351 swap in S197

New to this forum but I have done the 351W swap in a 2007 GT. Not too bad, cross member mod, one piece driveline, carbureted, aftermarket gauges. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #27
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Kaase put a BB in his 2008. Motor mounts and headers were custom but worked out OK. Carb deal. Everything else is factory, works fine. If anyone is thinking a GM engine keep in mind that the shifter is located about 8" different from the stock location. Maybe Shelby38 could clue us in on the dash/electronics mods with his swap. How about a photo? Seriously, How about a Kaase 427 small block with EFI and P38 heads? Damn OBDII crap.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:13 AM   #28
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New to this forum but I have done the 351W swap in a 2007 GT. Not too bad, cross member mod, one piece driveline, carbureted, aftermarket gauges. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.
You have a PM sir!
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:00 PM   #29
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351 swap in S197

It is possible to keep the complete brake system and the power steering. My purpose was for drag strip only use so I opted to not keep the power steering and I used Aerospace drag brakes on mine.

There is a company that makes a billet cross member to fit most popular transmission choices for the swap, I'll try to find a link to it for you.

BMR makes a K member for this application I used the KM012 (link below).

2005 - 2014 Mustang GT Chassis | K-Members | BMR Suspension Products & Parts

You should be able to use your stock gauges for way less than $1200 but if you are into doing something custom the large tack and speedo's slip nicely into the stock bezels and look pretty cool.


jsimmonstx I will send you an email so you have my addy for side discussion if needed. I'm in Washington state.

I am happy to help however I can but since I wasn't trying to keep mine on the street there will be some things I won't have answers for. I did find another guy who swapped a stroked 351W that made (and sells) a video of his project. I finished my swap last year but bought the video last week just to see if there was any info that would help me, I paid $25 with shipping. That guy gave a list of the parts he used for his swap.

I have tons of pics and notes but haven't taken the time to document it properly yet so probably better if I just answer questions about it to start with.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:26 PM   #30
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Kaase put a BB in his 2008. Motor mounts and headers were custom but worked out OK. Carb deal. Everything else is factory, works fine. If anyone is thinking a GM engine keep in mind that the shifter is located about 8" different from the stock location. Maybe Shelby38 could clue us in on the dash/electronics mods with his swap. How about a photo? Seriously, How about a Kaase 427 small block with EFI and P38 heads? Damn OBDII crap.
Shelby38 said he has aftermarket gauges, and I'm assuming he is including the tach in that statement. The shop that's gonna do my swap said I could use a reluctor between the balancer and the pulley and just use the crank sensor already in the car for a tach signal.

I have an additional concern regarding the EPAS in the 2012 cars. Will I be able to keep it, or do I have to change over to a manual steering rack? Will ABS still work? Can I use my OEM A/C compressor? What headers did Shelby38 use? How did he hook up the gas pedal?

I should be able to keep my OEM K-member, and FRPP makes a set of motor mounts for this swap. The only fab question involves the transmission cross member.
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:52 PM   #31
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I fabbed my own Transmission cross member but you can buy one from Evolution performance(link below).

Evolution Performance, Inc. Billet Aluminum Crossmember [EVO-CM] - $275.00 : Evolution Performance, Performance Parts & Accessories - Ford Mustang & Shelby Experts

I used the gas pedal and cable from an early 80's fox body (carb car), the cable was the perfect length and the pedal fit nicely with a small mod to the bracket. Clean and cheap. I can get you pics later if needed. There are also several aftermarket gas pedal setups with throttle cables designed for street rod/generic applications.


I originally used a MAC shorty header for 351W in a fox body that I had left over from a previous 351W/Fox swap. They fit nicely in fact so nicely that I was able to drop the motor/trany in with the headers on (I can provide pics if needed). I have found so far that many of the 351W/fox headers will fit the S197 as long as you use a shorty or mid length that hugs the block on the drivers side. I have a set of BBK equal length shorties that will not fit. I tried a few sets of 351W/fox full length headers that I have hanging around and found that any set that wrapped around the steering shaft on the fox will not fit the S197 due to steering shaft/frame clearances.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:00 PM   #32
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Shelby38 your car is awesome. Kudos. I think there is a massive market waiting to start swapping engines into the S197.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:54 AM   #33
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Black12 thanks for the kind words. I agree with you on the potential market. It seems like you usually see a few guys who do swaps like this on the new models when they first come out but once they reach the 5-8 yr old mark is when you really start seeing guys make the hard core mods.
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:29 PM   #34
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Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model! I want to keep the cars air bags, abs, dash, etc. running off the stock ECM but.....run the engine off a Holley or FAST efi system or?, regardless of engine type. The OBDII system is the fly in the ointment. Jon Kaase has a BB in his 08 and everything on the car works like factory but he's also carbureted. The OBDII deal would keep me off the street legally. Some kind of interface is available to interpret the signals to the ECM and NOT kick out a code. On page 20 of Greg Banish' book on FI systems he states "A popular choice is to install a piggyback controller that intercepts and modifies the signals going to and from the factory ECU", If I had this technology I'd be all over this. I need something to satisfy the stock ECM so that it won't flag the OBDII. Then, it's new engine time. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:56 AM   #35
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Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model! I want to keep the cars air bags, abs, dash, etc. running off the stock ECM but.....run the engine off a Holley or FAST efi system or?, regardless of engine type. The OBDII system is the fly in the ointment. Jon Kaase has a BB in his 08 and everything on the car works like factory but he's also carbureted. The OBDII deal would keep me off the street legally. Some kind of interface is available to interpret the signals to the ECM and NOT kick out a code. On page 20 of Greg Banish' book on FI systems he states "A popular choice is to install a piggyback controller that intercepts and modifies the signals going to and from the factory ECU", If I had this technology I'd be all over this. I need something to satisfy the stock ECM so that it won't flag the OBDII. Then, it's new engine time. Thanks for the feedback.
The way I got it figured is a well-built 408 stroker (roller block, forged crank/rods, AFR heads, QuickFuel 850cfm carb, and MSD ignition) will run you about $8-10k. If you're gonna do this, why bother with EFI (expense and hassle)? The whole point is to go old school and build a motor you don't have to pay someone to tune for you.

I want to keep the stock stuff too, but I'm not married to any of it. I drove cars for a long time without that crap, and I figure I can do it again.
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