Is the Motor Bad ??? Lawyer Up ??? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 11-18-2014, 03:57 PM   #1
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Is the Motor Bad ??? Lawyer Up ???

Hi All,
On Nov. 4th I applied for a loan to buy a 2008 Mustang GT w/ 73K on it.
From what I could see it looked well taken care of. I took the car for a short test drive & everything seemed fine. I applied for a loan to buy the car.
I got approved for the loan on the 4th. On the 5th I did the paperwork. And on the 7th I paid the $1000 Down Payment & got the car an hour or two before the dealer closed. I took the car for about a 35 mile drive & started hearing tapping.
Thought it was low on oil but it was full. OK...maybe a lifter stuck. So I take the car back on the 8th when they open. Car has a 15 day warranty by law in AZ.
Dealer says they'll get the problem solved. They took the car to a large Ford Dealership to have it checked out & fixed. When Ford gave them a quote of $1730 worth of parts minimum & at least 7 hours of labor they said they'd have their mechanic fix it. ( If they had their own mechanic why wouldn't he diagnose the problem)???
Anyway, I talk to the Service Manager at the Ford Dealer about the car. He called me in his office & said these guys are ripping you off. The motor in that car either has to be totally rebuilt or replaced it's in such bad shape. From the way it sounded we thought the Cam Phasers were bad. Once the Valve Covers were off it told the whole story. The Cam Phasers are bad, the Cams are all scored & tore up, the lifters are most likely bad, the CTV Solenoids are most likely clogged & bad, & who knows what damage is done to the bottom end.
It appears the car never had an oil change. The Tar Thick Oil stuck all over the inside of the heads. It's just nasty. I'll post a few pics by tomorrow.
Anyway, the guy at Ford said just cleaning it all up wouldn't help at all, that in fact it would probably make the knock louder. He said the motor was to far gone to just simply fix it.
Well the dealership I bought the car from picked the car up from Ford without having any work done & said they'll have their Mechanic fix it. After 9 days the car is supposedly fixed. I went over...started the car & let it run about 15 minutes & sure enough...The Knock was even louder. On top of that now all I can smell is gas fumes, there's water coming out both tail pipes & white smoke.
Wasn't doing any of that till their Mechanic worked on it. I refused to take the car.
At that point I advised them that I knew everything about the car & even had pictures. They tried everything to get me to take the car, offering to make my 1st payment & pay for a 90 Day Bumper to Bumper Warranty through ASC, etc...
I declined & told them I wanted my $1000 back & out of the contract. They keep saying Technically..It's your car now. I say it's not because it's Fraud.
The guy sat there & told me how good the car was & how it's the favorite car he ever had on his lot, yada, yada, yada.
Back to the Service Manager @ Ford. Turns out he was Law Enforcement for 20 years & said he would testify in court to the Engines condition & damage if needed.
I contacted a lawyer yesterday & will meet with him on Friday if this isn't resolved by then.
So...what do you all think ???
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #2
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When you bought the car did you sign a paper saying that your getting it as is. I too got my car off a lot in az and they made me sign a paperwork that. A week or so after i got the car the alternator went bad and they refused to fix it cause that paper.

---------- Post added at 03:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------

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When you bought the car did you sign a paper saying that your getting it as is. I too got my car off a lot in az and they made me sign a paper like that. A week or so after i got the car the alternator went bad and they refused to fix it cause that paper.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:23 PM   #3
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The AS IS warranty doesn't matter if in the 1st 24 hours you take the car back for repairs.
AZ. law requires them to give you a 15 Day or 500 mi. warranty. I have a copy of the ad for the Mustang stating it comes with a 90 Day / 3000 mi. warranty. They have to live up to that ad by law. I did my initial consultation yesterday with my lawyer & he said we can win this case because of the guy at the Ford Dealer, the ad, & a few other reasons. It will cost me a $1000 for the Lawyer but better than paying $14K for a car body.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ----------

Should have pics on in 30 minutes.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:28 PM   #4
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http://www.mustangevolution.com/foru...5671-36756.jpg
Pretty Huh ???
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:34 PM   #5
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Be careful what you post about your case. You never known what can come back in a negative way. Best of luck though. Hope you get out of that car.

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Old 11-18-2014, 04:51 PM   #6
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Wow that's nasty. Best of luck with this, I hope it works out for you.
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:08 PM   #7
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damm is that wat they look like from the inside ...... "goes out side to start first oil change" yep looks like my 04 engine were all good
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:44 PM   #8
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Best of luck with this, cause this is some straight bull. Hope it gets fixed!


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Old 11-18-2014, 07:03 PM   #9
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Dam, I have not seen a motor that bad since I was 16 and bought a 89 firebird, and tore down and rebuilt the stock 305

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Old 11-18-2014, 09:46 PM   #10
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Take their butts to court if you have to. Sorry you had to go through that bs.
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:14 PM   #11
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If you have a 90 day warranty and the techs at ford said that I think you would have a good case if they don't fix it.

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Old 11-18-2014, 10:34 PM   #12
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Sounds like they know they have a problem, since they offered to make your first payment and just want the car gone. Since our attorney is so confident, you should get your lawyer fees back. Make sure the lawyer knows you need to walk away with the same money you had before buying the crappy car. Once they find out the Ford guy will testify, it should go pretty fast.


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Old 11-19-2014, 12:28 AM   #13
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Well it sounds like you guys agree with me on this. Thanks !!!! It re-assures me that I'm doing the right thing.
I got an email from the dealer this morning with a PDF of an 181 point inspection they had done at another big dealer. The inspection has nothing on it that I took the car in for & that area was not inspected. The dealer is trying to say the car is good to go. I disagree.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:30 AM   #14
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Pretty sure any one with at least 6 brain cells would look at those pictures and agree

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Old 11-19-2014, 02:38 PM   #15
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Get a lawyer, make sure you sue for court costs too. Shady used car dealer there, well, most of them are...
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:48 PM   #16
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Retaining my lawyer this Friday. Tried to get lender to drop the loan but they said no. Guess I can't blame them. Still told them they weren't getting paid unless I lose in court. I don't think I can lose but who knows.
Surprised to see you here Scotty. Use to you on the 5.0 site.
Still Stangless ??? Didn't you have a blue one on your avatar ? Is the white one your new one ?
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:25 PM   #17
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Sold it, the white one is my old 95 Cobra. Will be getting a Coyote or GT500 in a few years prolly.

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Old 11-20-2014, 06:38 AM   #18
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damn dude what a horror story :'( at first i came in thinking "aw man another s197 out there to make mine feel less special" but now im rooting for you.

i hate shady dealers like that, hoping in the near future the government will require ALL vehicles to come with warranty imo and if its going to be sold as is, they should put a note that its a piece of **** too. wish they had more laws to keep used care dealers from exploiting people...ive been a victim myself too. back when i was 17 and saved 3 years of hard work for a honda civic, and it blew a headgasket on the way home. I attempted suicide for the first time that night and was in the ICU then hospital for 3 weeks.

the medical bills alone put me in debt 5 times the amount of the car. my life has never been the same after that, always been a struggle, and seems everything i manage to get, everyone else already has and i get nothing special in this life. ill never get married or a good job, this is it my **** hell.
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Old 11-20-2014, 07:50 AM   #19
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Honestly I would not ever recommend buying from an actual used car dealer. Everything I've bought used has been private party or from a big dealer's used section. Used dealers are nearly 100% shysters in my experiences. Only ones that I've been to that aren't are the higher end sports car or exotics used dealers and those are few/far between.

Definitely get that lawyer involved and hopefully the Ford tech does not flake out and actually testifies. Also, try your bank's fraud dept again. Some are better than others but I'd at least keep them updated and escalate up to the top level management before you give up there.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:30 AM   #20
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Im mad at that dealer and also mad that someone treated a mustang badly to get it in that condition. I bet you anything it was some trophy girl who knew nothing about cars and just wanted to feel good in a 'stang'

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Old 11-20-2014, 09:01 AM   #21
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I will caution you about not paying your loan.....while if what you say is true you'll be able to get your $ back from the dealer if you don't keep current on the loan (remember they didn't sell you the POS car) not paying will mess up your credit for a long time. Good Luck
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:04 AM   #22
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It will take 30 days after the loan is due b4 it will hit his credit

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Old 11-20-2014, 10:33 AM   #23
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U guys gotta remember the dealer probably took the car in trade. They don't tear open the engine and inspect it. While the story does suck it's nobody's fault but whoever owned the car before. If it's a big dealer they should help out considering the situation and they have the resources to get it resolved. They know the issue and could refund you and send it to auction. Problem is then some one else is gonna a end up with the same junk.

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Old 11-20-2014, 10:34 AM   #24
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And also to OP, not the banks fault either. They gave you a loan towards a vehicle you chose. I wouldn't not pay it and screw up ur credit. Pay it until the situation is resolved and then buy something else.

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Old 11-20-2014, 11:58 AM   #25
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Read the posts again. The dealer is aware of what is wrong, they are trying to get it to run well enough to get him to take it even though the Ford dealer they took it to told them it was shot and needed a new motor. They are refusing to get it fixed right and saying he has to take the car even though they have to warranty it by law.

No it isn't the bank's fault, but yes, oh yes it is the dealer's problem now because they are responsible to warranty what they sell for X period of time. I don't know all the details but if everything hte OP says is true and the lawyer thinks he can win the case, I'd be willing to bet they'll be court ordered to refund the money.

And if that is the case then what will happen is they'll try to jury rig the thing into running well enough for the next poor bastard to take it and get screwed.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:14 PM   #26
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Read the posts again. The dealer is aware of what is wrong, they are trying to get it to run well enough to get him to take it even though the Ford dealer they took it to told them it was shot and needed a new motor. They are refusing to get it fixed right and saying he has to take the car even though they have to warranty it by law.

No it isn't the bank's fault, but yes, oh yes it is the dealer's problem now because they are responsible to warranty what they sell for X period of time. I don't know all the details but if everything hte OP says is true and the lawyer thinks he can win the case, I'd be willing to bet they'll be court ordered to refund the money.

And if that is the case then what will happen is they'll try to jury rig the thing into running well enough for the next poor bastard to take it and get screwed.
I'd say they definitely need to. Do an engine swap at minimum. I was just saying it wasn't originally the dealers fault for taking a buzzard in on trade and selling it. Knowing there is now an issue I agree they need to make it right.

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Old 11-20-2014, 12:42 PM   #27
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According to the Attorney Generals Office if I find a major problem with the car in the 1st 24 hours they have to take it back. I had the car less than a day.
The Ford Dealer is putting everything in writing at this moment. I have to go back in an hour to pick up the letter. Cost me a 1/2 hours labor ($55) but at least I'll have it all in writing. If needed we can subpena him.
Everyone says the dealers usually back down once they hear from your lawyer. They hear the threat of a lawyer quite often but most people wont push it that far.
As far as my credit goes...lol...it can't get any worse as I just filed bankruptcy on the 4th due to over whelming medical bills.
I actually talked to the mechanic who worked on it & he is the one writing the letter. According to him there's some kind of hose under the cams that lubricate everything & it's full of holes. The hose is part of the Head & isn't replaceable. You have to replace the whole head. Also the Crank & Cam Journals are all scored from no oil getting to them. It ruined all the Bearings, Cylinders, ... just about everything in the motor. He said the motor can never get the correct oil pressure again. Even if he rebuilt the whole top end it wouldn't do any good.
I have a 3:30 appt. @ the lawyers tomorrow. Sure hope he likes all the info I'm bringing him as I have a folder full.
Well...time to file a complaint with the BBB & Attorney General & DMV. Also will put them on Ripoff Report.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:47 PM   #28
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The "hose" is called an oil squirter. And yes they can get clogged and at that point everything gets effed up. Some vehicles have recalls where bigger squirters are installed so there is less chance of them being clogged up or some manufaturers leave them off completely. The Boss 5.0 (roadrunner) and the 5.0 in the F150s do not have the squirters like the Coyote in the 5.0 does. Although the F150 motor is almost dead nuts identical to the Mustang.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:22 PM   #29
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I see a refund coming soon

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Old 11-20-2014, 01:40 PM   #30
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Just got the letter & it says everything about the cams, journals,etc... & at the end it says
"At this point Engine Replacement is recommended."
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
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I'd say they definitely need to. Do an engine swap at minimum. I was just saying it wasn't originally the dealers fault for taking a buzzard in on trade and selling it. Knowing there is now an issue I agree they need to make it right.

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I disagree that the dealer wasn't at fault originally. A descent dealer would have changed the oil and given it a multi-point inspection before selling. An oil change would have shown signs of an issue.
You can't just take keys from one person and hand them to the next.
But after a problem popped up, they were trying to screw him, which also indicates they probably knew something was wrong.
Used car dealers are scum.


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Old 11-21-2014, 06:22 PM   #32
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Went to the lawyer today & presented all the paperwork & pictures. He was like...Wow...Good Work....We got these guys on about 10 different things. He's going to threaten them with turning them in to different agencies for Fraud which will cause big problems for them if they don't settle. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed though because it's not over till it's over.
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:30 PM   #33
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Glad to see there are still ppl out there who will take jackasses like this to task. Too many ppl roll over or are just plain non-confrontational.


Word of caution for next time, either go through a legit larger national dealer or (even better) find a Mustang from a forum classified where you can go back and look at a build thread/history of the car.
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:38 PM   #34
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I bought my car from a used dealer...... Works great


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Old 11-21-2014, 06:46 PM   #35
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Its a crapshoot. And honestly simply pulling the dipstick out and seeing black tar on it which I'm guessing would be the case with this car... I dunno I was not there.


Last time I was at a "used" car dealer was when we were looking for a car for my little sister when she was 17. Dude kept trying to sell us on a VW Beetle. Besides being a POS, the car had dents, broken antenna, gas door was stuck etc... Point it all out to the guy and he's like "uhhhhhh....". Used car dealers are almost always scumbags. There are always exceptions.
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