Will a Tremec TR3650 mount up to a 460? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-08-2015, 05:07 PM   #1
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Will a Tremec TR3650 mount up to a 460?

Would our 5 speeds mount up to a 460 motor? If not what would been needed?

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Old 03-08-2015, 05:29 PM   #2
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The 3650 uses an integrated bell housing, and it has the modular bolt pattern. I don't see it mounting up without extensive work.


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Old 03-08-2015, 05:54 PM   #3
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Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but people have swapped a 460 into an S197 so I thought their was a slight chance that it would bolt in. I guess those guys have just swapped in New transmissions with custom driveshafts?

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Old 03-11-2015, 09:56 PM   #4
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460 small block crate motor is going in my 08 V6 after college!


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Old 03-11-2015, 10:05 PM   #5
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460 small block crate motor is going in my 08 V6 after college!


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460 small block? I can't imagine how thin those cylinder walls will be.


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Old 03-11-2015, 11:23 PM   #6
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460 small block? I can't imagine how thin those cylinder walls will be.

Although I've only built a few 408ci motors, building a 460 isn't as hard as you may think.
You use the Ford Racing Boss 351 9.5" deck block, bore it to 4.150" and stroke it 4.250". Although I used 6.25" rods in my 408 you would use 6.125" rods to make the 460. You would still have enough meat to bore the motor at least once and maybe twice. This motors make a ton of torque, over 600lbft and over 650hp with a single carb. The one thing is you only need to wind them up to around 5600/5800rpm to make that much torque and Hp.
My guess is that even with the Ford Z heads and mild roller the motor will make over 575hp. With some really good heads and an aggressive solid roller you can make close to 700hp. Not too shabby from a small block Ford.....................


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Old 03-11-2015, 11:40 PM   #7
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I was looking at boring a 460 to 557. I think I found someone who has completed this swap, but it was on a drag car with no AC and most likely not the stock gauge cluster and I would want my car to have both. I thought it would be cool to have a big block with EFI in a s197. I know it would add 300ish pounds to the nose of he car, but the cool factor would definitely be worth it to me personally. I'd rather Have a unique car than a fast car. After looking into it, I would definitely be in way over my head if I attempted the swap so I'm back to looking for new ideas.

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Old 03-11-2015, 11:42 PM   #8
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I was looking at boring a 460 to 557. I know of at least one person who has completed this swap, but it was on a drag car with most likely no AC and not the stock gauge cluster. I thought it would be cool to have a big block with EFI in a s197. I know it would add 300ish pounds to the nose of he car, but the cool factor would definitely be worth it to me personally. I'd rather Have a unique car than a fast car. After looking into it, I would definitely be in way over my head if I attempted the swap. So I'm back to looking for new and unique ideas.

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Old 03-11-2015, 11:52 PM   #9
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I was looking at boring a 460 to 557. I think I found someone who has completed this swap, but it was on a drag car with no AC and most likely not the stock gauge cluster and I would want my car to have both. I thought it would be cool to have a big block with EFI in a s197. I know it would add 300ish pounds to the nose of he car, but the cool factor would definitely be worth it to me personally. I'd rather Have a unique car than a fast car. After looking into it, I would definitely be in way over my head if I attempted the swap so I'm back to looking for new ideas.

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All I can say is why a BBF in an S197? I understand the WOW factor, but adding that much weight to the front means you'd have to replace every part of the front end including the cross member plus headers would be a real bid deal.
I've helped put a 514 into a 67 Mustang and that was a tight squeeze. My 428 CJ Mustang was also no fun, but an FE in late Mustang would be................crazy.
I guess being a drag racer for over 35 years has jaded me, but you can never have enough HP and the more torque you generate the faster you go................love FE motors. Had a Q 427/4spd 63-1/2 Galaxie almost 40 year ago.
Go with a 460 small block and know one will believe you when you tell them it's a 460..............unless they are died in the wool Ford guys.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:04 AM   #10
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IMO the only reason to go big block nowadays is for show or you are 100% against boost and race gas/E85. As we've seen you can get a hell of a lot of power from engines under 5.0L. You could easily take a 5.0, raise compression, boost it, run E85 and spin it to 8,000 rpm and be just fine and make some pretty damn good power. Even with the 460 you will add a ton of weight to the front of the car since i guarantee it'll be an iron block with heavy internals. Just my .02 though.

My friend has a 455 BBP in his '69 firebird. It makes a ton of power and sounds like complete sex when it had just little glass packs on it, but my little bolt on 4.6 2v is faster.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:00 AM   #11
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460 small block? I can't imagine how thin those cylinder walls will be.


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Not sure...haven't researched it that in depth yet. Still a long ways off. Just was planning on doing Ford Racing's newer 460 small block crate motor


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Old 03-12-2015, 08:25 AM   #12
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They make several stroker kits that go from 460 to 500+ and I found lots of information on stroking a 460. From what I read the cylinder walls never seemed to be an issue. Its the actual swapping a 460 into a S197 that has little to no information. Also I'm open to any ideas on how to make my car unique.

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Old 03-12-2015, 11:09 AM   #13
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IMO the only reason to go big block nowadays is for show or you are 100% against boost and race gas/E85. As we've seen you can get a hell of a lot of power from engines under 5.0L. You could easily take a 5.0, raise compression, boost it, run E85 and spin it to 8,000 rpm and be just fine and make some pretty damn good power. Even with the 460 you will add a ton of weight to the front of the car since i guarantee it'll be an iron block with heavy internals. Just my .02 though.

My friend has a 455 BBP in his '69 firebird. It makes a ton of power and sounds like complete sex when it had just little glass packs on it, but my little bolt on 4.6 2v is faster.
Your buddy with the 69 Bird must have a boat anchor because I had the last year of 455/4spd Firebird TransAm cars with air conditioning delete, and other than bolt on stuff and was running 12.90's in the 1/4 mile. This was in 76/77 when almost all cars were dogs.
I've grown up with carbs and although I drive a 14 GT, I still love carb'd motors.
As for your 4.6, they are good motors, but without good internal forged parts they will come apart sooner or later.
To make HP with N/A cars it's all about cubic inches and torque. When I was making 650hp in my 408 I never had to spin more than 6800rpm, and at 5700rpm I was pumping out over 540lbft. I was happy going 9.8's in the quarter and probably could have gone faster if I wanted to refresh the motor every year. And if you are worried about the weight go with an aluminum block and heads like the Mod motors.........then the weight difference isn't much.
It's so easy to add FI or a blower, or N2O, or turbo and make big HP....................to me, anyone can do that. Try making 700hp with a single carb'd motor.............................
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:27 AM   #14
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They make several stroker kits that go from 460 to 500+ and I found lots of information on stroking a 460. From what I read the cylinder walls never seemed to be an issue. Its the actual swapping a 460 into a S197 that has little to no information. Also I'm open to any ideas on how to make my car unique.

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You're car is already unique, you personalized it.
It's really hard to make it a "one off" when you have tens of thousands of Mustangs out there. I'm sure you could get a 460/514 in there, but the cost is going to be huge.
If you don't care about HP, how about an Eco-Boost V6 or even an Eco-Boost 4 cylinder. I'm not an advocate of putting a Chevy motor in it, but maybe an LS3 would work. I had a friend who put a very high HP 347 Ford into a Camaro............truly unique usually means $$$$$.
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Old 03-12-2015, 11:47 AM   #15
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Your buddy with the 69 Bird must have a boat anchor because I had the last year of 455/4spd Firebird TransAm cars with air conditioning delete, and other than bolt on stuff and was running 12.90's in the 1/4 mile. This was in 76/77 when almost all cars were dogs.
I've grown up with carbs and although I drive a 14 GT, I still love carb'd motors.
As for your 4.6, they are good motors, but without good internal forged parts they will come apart sooner or later.
To make HP with N/A cars it's all about cubic inches and torque. When I was making 650hp in my 408 I never had to spin more than 6800rpm, and at 5700rpm I was pumping out over 540lbft. I was happy going 9.8's in the quarter and probably could have gone faster if I wanted to refresh the motor every year. And if you are worried about the weight go with an aluminum block and heads like the Mod motors.........then the weight difference isn't much.
It's so easy to add FI or a blower, or N2O, or turbo and make big HP....................to me, anyone can do that. Try making 700hp with a single carb'd motor.............................

It's on a conservative build right now. It used to be much faster but it's his daily as of right now. My car just has a tune and 4.10s and it freaked him out a little. It was his dad's car (first car actually) and back then it was set up as a drag car and did pretty well.

The reason I mentioned weight was because it's going to be extremely hard making a 460 Ford in an aluminum block unless you are using an LSx style motor.

I care more about corners and high rpm though, so torque doesn't suit my driving too well, it is fun as hell, but not ideal to pump out a ton of torque at low rpms on a road course.


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Old 03-12-2015, 12:06 PM   #16
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It's on a conservative build right now. It used to be much faster but it's his daily as of right now. My car just has a tune and 4.10s and it freaked him out a little. It was his dad's car (first car actually) and back then it was set up as a drag car and did pretty well.

The reason I mentioned weight was because it's going to be extremely hard making a 460 Ford in an aluminum block unless you are using an LSx style motor.

I care more about corners and high rpm though, so torque doesn't suit my driving too well, it is fun as hell, but not ideal to pump out a ton of torque at low rpms on a road course.


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I understand, and although I love road courses it's hard to get the drag racing blood out. For a road course car it's all about weight and weight distribution..........you need HP also, but depending on where you race and in what class. I started racing SCCA with a Spec Miata.................and I know all about momentum cars because the Miata had 130hp on a good day.
Dove does make a 460/514 aluminum block and it's not that more expensive than a Dart or other aluminum aftermarket blocks and will save at least 150/200lbs off the FE motor. Again, it just boils down to how deep your pockets are.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:50 PM   #17
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You're car is already unique, you personalized it.
It's really hard to make it a "one off" when you have tens of thousands of Mustangs out there. I'm sure you could get a 460/514 in there, but the cost is going to be huge.
If you don't care about HP, how about an Eco-Boost V6 or even an Eco-Boost 4 cylinder. I'm not an advocate of putting a Chevy motor in it, but maybe an LS3 would work. I had a friend who put a very high HP 347 Ford into a Camaro............truly unique usually means $$$$$.
You make a very good point. I looked into doing a ecoboost v6 swap, but the wiring and ecu swapping scared me. I'm definitely going to look into it some more.

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Old 03-12-2015, 01:26 PM   #18
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If you have the money to do a 460 in a S197, you have the money to buy a transmission that will fit right out of the box.
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Old 03-12-2015, 01:34 PM   #19
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I was looking at boring a 460 to 557. I know of at least one person who has completed this swap, but it was on a drag car with most likely no AC and not the stock gauge cluster. I thought it would be cool to have a big block with EFI in a s197. I know it would add 300ish pounds to the nose of he car, but the cool factor would definitely be worth it to me personally. I'd rather Have a unique car than a fast car. After looking into it, I would definitely be in way over my head if I attempted the swap. So I'm back to looking for new and unique ideas.

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Everything now days is based on a computer. I'm sure if you are computer literate you would be able to do the swap.
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Old 03-12-2015, 07:19 PM   #20
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If you have the money to do a 460 in a S197, you have the money to buy a transmission that will fit right out of the box.
What do you mean by a transmission that will fit a 460 right out of the box? Is there a transmission that will bolt up to a 460 and allow the stick to be placed in the right location? Also I'm guessing that a custom driveshaft would have to be made?

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Old 03-12-2015, 07:35 PM   #21
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I had a 68 Firebird with a 455 in it and a turbo 400 tranny it was a BEAST! Easily run in the 12's towing a 2 valve Mustang! It made tremendous torque and was a great drag strip car. Could smoke tires better than any car I've ever owned. I regret selling it but I had it a while and someone made an offer I could not refuse at the time so I sold it regrettably..


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Old 03-12-2015, 08:54 PM   #22
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What do you mean by a transmission that will fit a 460 right out of the box? Is there a transmission that will bolt up to a 460 and allow the stick to be placed in the right location? Also I'm guessing that a custom driveshaft would have to be made?

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Hope you've got a Big Budget to do this, maybe $10/13k should do it.
The only transmission that will bolt up right out of the box is an automatic or Ford Truck manual trans. To put a 6spd behind the 460/514 your are talking maybe $4/5k. You will need a bellhousing that will accept the T56 transmission....Quick Time is one of the only people I know of but there may be others, Bellhousing is $700. A used 6spd out of a 2003/2004 Mustang Cobra will run you around $2000, or you can buy a new one for $3200. Then you will need to modify the drive line tunnel probably all the way from the firewall at least to the end of the trans tailshaft. You will need to discard your OE crossmember and go with maybe Maximum Motor Sports or Griggs with special provision for the 460/514. You will most likely have to put 9" Ford Currie rearend in the place of the very weak one you have, then flywheel, clutch..................this is a huge project if you want it done right. If you lived closer I'd do it for $15k and about 6 months.
If you have the skills to do it and fab most of the stuff yourself it's still going to cost a pretty penny. Trying to use your stock crossmember and suspension with that much weight is an accident waiting to happen.....................Like I said earlier, this is a huge and very costly project to make your car unique. I have seen them done in Fox Bodies, but I've never seen any in an late model Mustang.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:57 PM   #23
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I had a 68 Firebird with a 455 in it and a turbo 400 tranny it was a BEAST! Easily run in the 12's towing a 2 valve Mustang! It made tremendous torque and was a great drag strip car. Could smoke tires better than any car I've ever owned. I regret selling it but I had it a while and someone made an offer I could not refuse at the time so I sold it regrettably..


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In my 76 Trans AM, it was rated at 200HP from the factory, and I ordered it.............the second car in over 50 years of buying cars that I ordered from the factory. I also ran a 455SD exhaust from the headers back as the 76 had one cat and the pipe split into duals at the back.....................
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Old 03-12-2015, 09:09 PM   #24
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In my 76 Trans AM, it was rated at 200HP from the factory, and I ordered it.............the second car in over 50 years of buying cars that I ordered from the factory. I also ran a 455SD exhaust from the headers back as the 76 had one cat and the pipe split into duals at the back.....................

Yeah the 76 stock was kind of emissions choked but still made good torque. Mine was a 72 and had a lot of work done to it. Monster torque but boy did it burn some gas!


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Old 03-12-2015, 09:32 PM   #25
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Hope you've got a Big Budget to do this, maybe $10/13k should do it.
The only transmission that will bolt up right out of the box is an automatic or Ford Truck manual trans. To put a 6spd behind the 460/514 your are talking maybe $4/5k. You will need a bellhousing that will accept the T56 transmission....Quick Time is one of the only people I know of but there may be others, Bellhousing is $700. A used 6spd out of a 2003/2004 Mustang Cobra will run you around $2000, or you can buy a new one for $3200. Then you will need to modify the drive line tunnel probably all the way from the firewall at least to the end of the trans tailshaft. You will need to discard your OE crossmember and go with maybe Maximum Motor Sports or Griggs with special provision for the 460/514. You will most likely have to put 9" Ford Currie rearend in the place of the very weak one you have, then flywheel, clutch..................this is a huge project if you want it done right. If you lived closer I'd do it for $15k and about 6 months.
If you have the skills to do it and fab most of the stuff yourself it's still going to cost a pretty penny. Trying to use your stock crossmember and suspension with that much weight is an accident waiting to happen.....................Like I said earlier, this is a huge and very costly project to make your car unique. I have seen them done in Fox Bodies, but I've never seen any in an late model Mustang.
Yea I'm a college student so I don't want to spend that must money right now, it will definitely be a couple of years before I'm able to take on a project that size. Thanks for all of the help, I really appreciate it.

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Old 03-12-2015, 09:36 PM   #26
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Yea I'm a college student so I don't want to spend that must money right now, it will definitely be a couple of years before I'm able to take on a project that size. Thanks for all of the help, I really appreciate it.

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No problem............guess I forgot you're still in school.
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Old 03-13-2015, 01:55 PM   #27
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No problem............guess I forgot you're still in school.
If I'm around and still kicking...........give me a holler, I'm always
up for a challenge.
Thanks.

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