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Old 04-29-2012, 09:18 PM   #1
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New to classics need some insight

Hey guys I'm new to the forum and new to classic mustangs I'm in the market for a first generation and looking at a great i6 65 near me. My plans are to run the 6 while I put a new front suspension and new rear and then save up for a 302 and tranny
So I'm wondering what I should look for and what works as far as any of that goes
Give me your $.02

Thanks guys,
Ben
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:03 AM   #2
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Re: New to classics need some insight

check everywhere for rust, it is your enemy and biggest money grabber of all. Starting with a rust free car will let you do whatever you want!
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:23 AM   #3
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Rust is enough to make a grown man cry haha
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:54 AM   #4
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Take a good look at the floor pans from both inside and under the car. The rear quarter panels are another hot spot as well as the area around the windshield and back glass. Don't worry to much about the front fenders, hood, grill, trunk lid as they can all be replaced fairly easily. Look t the hard to remove/replace panels and determine if YOU want to take on the work. Finding a relatively rust free project is getting harder to find. Good deals can be found from folks sellin there incomplete projects.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:41 AM   #5
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Ahh okay thanks, so do my homework to gotcha
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:29 AM   #6
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Look at the torque boxes from under the car and from inside the engine compartment.
Look at the rear sub-frames where the leaf springs attach.
Bring an ice pick with you to poke these areas pretty hard. Any deep rust or punch throughs, walk away from the car unless you want serious, extensive repair time and effort.
Look under the dash from inside the car for underside of the cowl. Near the left and right edges, you will see a 5" or so round vent on either side. Look all around these vent as this is where a mustang generally starts to rot away. Real poor cowl design by ford in this area and it is a real mother to repair or replace the cowl.!!!!

And take it from me, if you want a v8, skip the L6 to v8 swap route. I am currently doing this and I regret buying a 6 cyl and then converting it. The cost is way, way more than you will spend on the difference of just buying the v8 first. Heck, I have $3000 in engine work/parts alone just to get a 289 ready to drop in.

I have lucked out on a few items like a 94 Cobra T5. I had to buy a 93 bell housing, input shaft and bearing retainer fori it though as the 94 parts are too long.

You will also run into cost issues with replacing the rear end from the dinky 7.25" rear which any v8 will chew up in seconds to at least an 8" rear. You will also want to pay attention to ring and pinion ratio depending on the transmission you go with as well. I had the fortune of having 3 rears to choose from. I had the misfortune of all three being 2.79:1 gearing. So that means another $150 for a set of 3:1 r&p and setting backlash and all that good stuff!

I won't even get into what a pain the suspension is! Needless to say, you will have to swap out the L6 steering box to a bigger v8 steering box when the engine is out. Doing it later is rather difficult as you have to drop the exhaust and jack the engine to change it.

So, in short, buy the v8 from the start and spend your money on the issues the car already has, not the ones you will create!
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:54 AM   #7
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sainte View Post
Look at the torque boxes from under the car and from inside the engine compartment.
Look at the rear sub-frames where the leaf springs attach.
Bring an ice pick with you to poke these areas pretty hard. Any deep rust or punch throughs, walk away from the car unless you want serious, extensive repair time and effort.
Look under the dash from inside the car for underside of the cowl. Near the left and right edges, you will see a 5" or so round vent on either side. Look all around these vent as this is where a mustang generally starts to rot away. Real poor cowl design by ford in this area and it is a real mother to repair or replace the cowl.!!!!

And take it from me, if you want a v8, skip the L6 to v8 swap route. I am currently doing this and I regret buying a 6 cyl and then converting it. The cost is way, way more than you will spend on the difference of just buying the v8 first. Heck, I have $3000 in engine work/parts alone just to get a 289 ready to drop in.

I have lucked out on a few items like a 94 Cobra T5. I had to buy a 93 bell housing, input shaft and bearing retainer fori it though as the 94 parts are too long.

You will also run into cost issues with replacing the rear end from the dinky 7.25" rear which any v8 will chew up in seconds to at least an 8" rear. You will also want to pay attention to ring and pinion ratio depending on the transmission you go with as well. I had the fortune of having 3 rears to choose from. I had the misfortune of all three being 2.79:1 gearing. So that means another $150 for a set of 3:1 r&p and setting backlash and all that good stuff!

I won't even get into what a pain the suspension is! Needless to say, you will have to swap out the L6 steering box to a bigger v8 steering box when the engine is out. Doing it later is rather difficult as you have to drop the exhaust and jack the engine to change it.

So, in short, buy the v8 from the start and spend your money on the issues the car already has, not the ones you will create!
WOW, that's a lot of Info, I hope he reads this twice. What's your opinion on that guy just building back up the straight six he has in it already?
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:09 AM   #8
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So really I just forget about the 6 and find an 8 and just improve it from there
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Well, that would be the route I would go if I wanted a six cyl. I drove my L6 from Washington DC to NJ and could barely hit 60mph with it. It sucked. I thought the motor was going to exploded had it wound up so high. I am completely surprised it made it.

Also, it's about personal wants. I'm not satisfied with an anemic 6cyl. I want the ***-kicking, name taking v8 under the hood. But, IF someone does the 6 to 8 swap, they should definitely (can't stress this enough) swap out the suspension.

When you compare the the two side by side, the L6 suspension is pencil thin compared to the v8.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjohnson View Post
So really I just forget about the 6 and find an 8 and just improve it from there
That would be my advice man. It is the route I would go if I had to do it again.

The best advice I can give you though is to research, research and do more research! Don't let the amount of stuff you find on the web overwhelm you though. There are tons of good articles out there, try to find ones written by respectable sources. Be wary of alot of message board advice (haha, this included) as you often get people who think they know stuf they really don't.

I have been a helicopter/jet engine mechanic for the last 24 years and, rebuilding a car was a huge learning curve for me!

Also, it is easier to fix the problems that are there rather than having those problems PLUS the problems you will create doing the upgrade.

When you do get your car, write out your plan and stick to it! Bouncing around and trying to keep it all straight in your head won't work, unless of course you have been doing this for years I guess.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:49 AM   #10
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Already I'll just go with the 8 then
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:27 AM   #11
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Cool, that's the way I wish I had gone. Once you have the car running and set up the way you like it, then you can focus on things like the front drum to disc conversion if the car inst already converted. I wouldn't worry too much about rear disc conversion unless you really wanted to go that route, it's not worth the cost or hassle IMO.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:32 AM   #12
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Hmm alright thanks for the help!! I appreciate it, now anyone selling there first generation 8 haha
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:34 AM   #13
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Try Craigslist in your area but be very careful when dealing on there.

Also try Hemmings.com classifieds.

When buying these old cars, make sure they have a clear title in hand. Some states do not issue titles for cars that old. Some of these cars will have salvage titles well. Just make sure the one you get has a clear title.

Also look for the ID tag on the inside of the door of the car. Make sure the VIN on that tag matches the one under the hood.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #14
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Will do hey thanks again...I'm literally taking notes haha, you must have done your fair share of mustang buying/hunting?
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:24 PM   #15
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Re: New to classics need some insight

I highly doubt anyone will let you poke their car "really hard" with a ice pick.

Take a magnet strip with you and check the body panels for any bondo and look for any gaps or pinched body panels. Pull the trunk and floor board carpet to check for rust.I would also suggest taking a notepad along to write down any flaws that you see because on a classic there sometimes can be to many to remember.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:34 PM   #16
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O thats pretty clever, will do thank you
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:43 PM   #17
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Re: New to classics need some insight

I meant poking the undercarriage, the subframes and such. Not painted areas or panels....

If you see heavy, accumulated rust in areas, give it a good poke to make sure the pick or screwdriver doesn't go through. Don't take their word for anything, verify it for yourself.

Also look at the firewall behind the front tires and outside of the torque boxes, people sometimes try to jack the car there and end up crushing that area in. I have several like this. One even had a 2x4 board covered with fiberglass and painted black to hide the "repair".

Oh, if using the magnet strip, you can use a thin piece of cloth or t-shirt or piece of paper between the magnet and the paint to avoid scratching the paint. Rust will still be magnetic in a lot of instances so make sure you visually check all areas.

Especially watch for rust under vinyl roof covers. It will appear as raised bumps the size of a BB to the size of a pancake.

This is just stuff I have learned in the last year and also stuff I am applying from my aircraft experience. Hope it helps!
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:58 PM   #18
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Underneath the doors are a great place for rust to collect and Sagging doors are also something to check for but can be easily fixed with some shims.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:43 PM   #19
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I should have talked to you guys last year before I bought my 66. I'd planned on new doors, fenders, hood, trunklid and maybe floors anyways. Ended up having to find a roof, quarter panel, tail light panel, rear trunk brace, both floor pans and seat bases, trunk floors and firewall. Didn't know about the magnet then and people can work temporary miracles with Bondo (roughly 10 gallons on mine, even on the floors under the carpet).
Car is still a shell after a year but it's a solid shell ready to build on now after only about 1300 in sheetmetal parts (including a junkyard donor roof I really lucked out on for 200 bucks, 6 rolls of welding wire, mask for lead filler removal, many hours of cutting/fitting/prepping/welding all the panels, countless cigarettes, and many many whiskey shots (because welding gives me ADD and I weld just as pretty buzzed as I do sober).
All in all still got it for cheaper than most I've found even with the repair parts.
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #20
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Damn...you've been busy haha
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:02 PM   #21
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Lol. Busy ain't the word for it. I can't wait to drive the thing again. I knew how to work on cars and sheetmetal welding but this thing turned into a chore, but soon enough I'll be able to park my 07 Mustang until my daughter gets old enough to drive and I can cruise around in the 66 every day. I budgeted around 30k over the next couple of years for the build including R&P and power brakes, it won't be cheap, but it will be something I built with my own hands, I can be proud of, and it's what I really want. Even more so than the new 5.0s which I've already test driven. I've wanted an old school Mustang since high school 15 years ago.......damn I'm getting old.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:13 PM   #22
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Lol to the old part...there's nothing like building it with your own hands I just restored a 94 jeep wrangler and it was a blast loved every minute of it and I know that jeep like the back of my hand...not to bad for a 19 year old full time college student...my brother bought it and I've always dreamed of a first generation Stang there just beautiful I can't wait
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:20 PM   #23
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Not bad at all. I gotta do it with a wife, kids, mortgage, 2 car payments, etc. At 19, I just couldn't find one worth jacking with when I was looking for one. Most I came across were just too far gone when i could find one. And partying was more of a priority then too, considering where I was then. I just wanted one. Now I got the experience to build it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Not bad at all. I gotta do it with a wife, kids, mortgage, 2 car payments, etc. At 19, I just couldn't find one worth jacking with when I was looking for one. Most I came across were just too far gone when i could find one. And partying was more of a priority then too, considering where I was then. I just wanted one. Now I got the experience to build it.
Ya I gotta give it to ya then haha I think the best thing about older cars is you can fix them yourself and there not do computer based
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:45 PM   #25
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Oh that is the best part. The second best part is that it's older than 24 years old and I can do whatever I want to it and not worry about Tx state inspections.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #26
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I gotta look into what new York has for older vehicles
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:29 AM   #27
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Thanks again for all the help guys
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:56 AM   #28
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Im not sure if some one already said this but check the cowel area. I pick up a 68 with rust ever. Floors quarters rear window battery tray. And then I found out the whole under cowel was completely rusted out. And yeah get the v8 because l got the l6 and iv dropped 15g in it just to get it ready for the v8 that i still don't have.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:35 PM   #29
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Ya I think you guys saved me...I was all lined up for a 6
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:22 PM   #30
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Re: New to classics need some insight

Glad to help. Hate to see someone get ripped off or not actually get whattheythought they were buying
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gc19662007
Lol. Busy ain't the word for it. I can't wait to drive the thing again. I knew how to work on cars and sheetmetal welding but this thing turned into a chore, but soon enough I'll be able to park my 07 Mustang until my daughter gets old enough to drive and I can cruise around in the 66 every day. I budgeted around 30k over the next couple of years for the build including R&P and power brakes, it won't be cheap, but it will be something I built with my own hands, I can be proud of, and it's what I really want. Even more so than the new 5.0s which I've already test driven. I've wanted an old school Mustang since high school 15 years ago.......damn I'm getting old.
Thats awesome! I would have loved a Mustang in high school. Hopefully she will enjoy the 07.

That's what makes these cars what they are today. The Mustang has seen some tough years, but it never got yanked from production.

I love the classics glad to see them still around. Ford never designed this car to last a long a time. Now it's different with Honda, and Toyota out there. It's fun when you line up every production style. Just don't give up building as so many people do!
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