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Old 02-25-2014, 03:51 PM   #1
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67 289 has sludge under valve covers

Okay, so my engine froze up on me and I changed the oil and I was able to free it up by hand and start it. So after I got it running again I pulled my valve covers and noticed a decent amount of sludge under them. Someone told me I should get a rebuild. A rebuild is just seeming out of the question due to it being too expensive to have done and difficult for me to do it. What do you reccommend? Is there any magic cleaner that can be ran in the oil to clean out the engine without a rebuild? I really am driving myself insane worrying about this. Let me know what you think! Thanks

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Old 02-25-2014, 04:23 PM   #2
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The sludge used to be a common thing 30 years ago... 165 degree thermostats and Pennzoil with the Z7 (Or something like that) additive would do it every time.
Is this the original engine? Why did it "freeze" up? Does it seem like it still runs good after you got it started again?
The reason that I ask these questions is, I don't want you to waste time or money on a engine that may be toast.
Yes, there are some "magic" elixirs that can help clean it up, and some people may be shocked to hear me say this, but, we may have just found a good use for SeaFoam. Another, old school, method is to run 4 quarts of oil and 1 quart of transmission fluid in the crankcase. Let it IDLE for a half hour then do a normal oil change. The "high detergent" transmission fluid will, usually, clean it up pretty good.
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Old 02-25-2014, 04:28 PM   #3
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Okay, so my engine froze up on me and I changed the oil and I was able to free it up by hand and start it. So after I got it running again I pulled my valve covers and noticed a decent amount of sludge under them. Someone told me I should get a rebuild. A rebuild is just seeming out of the question due to it being too expensive to have done and difficult for me to do it. What do you reccommend? Is there any magic cleaner that can be ran in the oil to clean out the engine without a rebuild? I really am driving myself insane worrying about this. Let me know what you think! Thanks

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Not sure about any magic cleaner. Usually things that claim to clean sludge out or other nasty stuff has unintended consequences. Which costs more in the long run. If you thin out the sludge and it's all in your engine, then where does it go? It'll have the potential of getting smaller pieces in the bearings.

When you say it locked up, exactly what happened?

I would do a little more investigating. I'd pull the oil pan and see what it looks like and the crank. It might just be in the valve covers and not a huge problem

Sludge can clog oil galleries. The block, heads, crank bearings and cam bearings. That's why someone said rebuild, it's safest.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:02 PM   #4
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Do you have a compression tester? If so it is time to use it. If not that would be the one tool I would go to before I yanked an engine. The Seafoam trick works but I have always used a pint of ATF in the gas every other tank and a QT in the oil for one change. I have run it 3000 miles in the oil with out a problem. I would do a compression test then decide on the next move. Let us know the readings on each cylinder wet and dry. I still use a pint of ATF in every other tank of gas on my Shelby and my other cars and it has never let me down.
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Old 02-25-2014, 09:09 PM   #5
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I didn't give enough information. So to begin with after it locked up on me (wouldn't fire and sounded like it was hitting a brick wall when trying to start). There was gasoline in my oil or at least it smelled like there was. So that's what led to me being told it needed a rebuild.

I was thinking about using seafoam but since the car isn't "driveable" I don't know if it would work. Might be worth a try though. Full time student and working as much as I'm able to money isn't extremely available. I had a guy that said he would rebuild it for $1,480 not including head work. I could pay that but I have no idea how much head work would be. He also said he would put a HEI distributor included in that price but I don't think I want one due to clearance issues and the fact that it's a GM product.

I have not pulled the oil pan as of yet. I am just worried I couldn't do a rebuild by myself and paying is difficult also.

I do not have a compression tester unfortunately.

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Old 02-25-2014, 09:55 PM   #6
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Major Fuel dilution of crankcase oil is a bearing killer. Is the oil way overfull? A sludge plugged oil pickup screen is even worse. No oil pressure vs lubrication with gas, no winners here I fear. Drop the pan and see what is left of the bottom end under the main and rod caps...
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:41 PM   #7
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Major Fuel dilution of crankcase oil is a bearing killer. Is the oil way overfull? A sludge plugged oil pickup screen is even worse. No oil pressure vs lubrication with gas, no winners here I fear. Drop the pan and see what is left of the bottom end under the main and rod caps...
+1 for sure

Also be careful of a budget rebuild, you can end up worse than before. Also head work will depend on your valves. It could be from $250 for minimum fixes to well over a grand for new valves, valve job, pushrods, rockers, etc. Once you find out more info, you can always pull the heads and have them evaluated for minimum money.
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Old 02-25-2014, 11:53 PM   #8
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It wasn't overfilled as far as I could tell. The engine was also previously built. It has a 292 cam (huge, might need smaller Idk yet) it is bored .40 over and has an 8 quart oil pan. I'm assuming with a stronger pump but don't know for sure. And as soon as I realized there was gas in oil I changed it out. I'm just worried about how the gasoline got there. Makes me think bad seals. I am still debating on weather I should try to clean it out without pulling engine or if I should rebuild it. I dont have anyone really to help me much. I even offered to pay a guy a few hundred to help me but he hasn't shown much interest.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:28 AM   #9
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I'm with Mlarv5 on this one - it sounds like a compression test is your next step. If it will crank, you can perform one - it doesn't need to run.

Ask a parts store if they have a loaner. Worst case, I've seen them around for <$30. Much cheaper to find out what you're dealing with first before you throw money at a rebuild.
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:10 AM   #10
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Even if you pull the oil pan you still don't know about the engine internals. Get a good compression tester and run the numbers. I have smelled gas in engine oil a lot if the engine flooded before it started. In a lot of older cars it is sort of normal. The compression tester will also let you know if the heads need to be done or the rings are good or bad. The oil passage can be cleaned pretty easy if the compression all passes. Have you ever got his engine started and fixed the over heat? Where are you located? Maybe join a Mustang Club and have the old timers like me give you advice on what they are seeing and hearing. When I start in on mine next summer I have a few friends in the club that will help with valve adjustment and backlash. Heck they might have all the tools to do an entire rebuild if needed. If they are like me buy the beer and call it square.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:56 PM   #11
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I will definitely invest or borrow a compression tester before I pull the engine. I will also check the oil pan although I do realize this may not help at all. I do not have a working temp gauge, but I don't think the car has ever over heated. I've only ran the engine for probably 8 minutes at a time. I am in Topeka Kansas. I offered unlimited beer access while helping me haha. Didn't work. Might change his mind who knows.

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:57 PM   #12
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The engine will start now. Just is rough. But then again it's a 292 cam with one open header and one closed

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Old 02-26-2014, 02:47 PM   #13
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Lets slow down and do one thing at a time. Do the compression test if you are not sure how here is a simple version.

Pull the coil wire going to the distributor you don't want the car to start
Pull one plug at a time and screw in tester or press in turn the engine over write down reading
move to the next cylinder until till you do all 8 cylinders
they all should be with in 10% of each other
if you have one that is really low put in a little oil and see if that brings it up if so rings if not valves

after you do this we will work on timing it but work one thing at a time and in mo time it will be all better.

Alrighty
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:55 PM   #14
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Lets slow down and do one thing at a time. Do the compression test if you are not sure how here is a simple version.

Pull the coil wire going to the distributor you don't want the car to start
Pull one plug at a time and screw in tester or press in turn the engine over write down reading
move to the next cylinder until till you do all 8 cylinders
they all should be with in 10% of each other
if you have one that is really low put in a little oil and see if that brings it up if so rings if not valves

after you do this we will work on timing it but work one thing at a time and in mo time it will be all better.

Alrighty
Mike
You're right. That sounds like a good plan. I will do that first and I will report the results and go from there. I am extremely grateful for everyone's help. I have been driving myself half insane.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:53 PM   #15
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You can save money if you take apart the engine and you clean it well at least get most of the slug and built up grease and to be honest if you can follow steps you can rebuild a engine well at least put it back together which would save you money again
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:30 AM   #16
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I was told if I take it apart I have to take the block and heads into a machine show which would cost around 1,500 or more.

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Old 02-27-2014, 10:47 AM   #17
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67 289 has sludge under valve covers

Oh damn the what would the other guy do?
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:50 AM   #18
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Josh if the engine has been rebuilt then most likely you will not have to open it up. I know you can rebuild an engine yourself if you just take your time. I have walked many people though it. I really doubt it will be necessary but we have to take it one step at a time and see what we see.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:04 PM   #19
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:09 PM   #20
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Josh if the engine has been rebuilt then most likely you will not have to open it up. I know you can rebuild an engine yourself if you just take your time. I have walked many people though it. I really doubt it will be necessary but we have to take it one step at a time and see what we see.
I think your correct. Or at least I hope you are. I will try a compression test and see how that goes and probably some seafoam too. Will report my results as soon as i get it done. I dont have much to lose by not trying at least. Another thing I have noticed is there seems to be something not connected on my 4 barrel carb. I assumed it to be an old throttle part but I was told it's supposed to be hooked up to something and isn't. I will show a picture of it. Just another thought.

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Old 02-27-2014, 02:22 PM   #21
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If this engine is salvageable, we can help you do it Joshy. Hell, there's probably a thousand years of collective experience to draw from ,on this website , between all of us on here.
Pictures are a great help when trying to diagnose problems over the internet.
If you have a Harbor Freight in your area, they usually have good deals on compression testers, timing lights, stuff like that, which you may need to get this car running correctly.
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Old 02-27-2014, 02:51 PM   #22
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I think your correct. Or at least I hope you are. I will try a compression test and see how that goes and probably some seafoam too. Will report my results as soon as i get it done. I dont have much to lose by not trying at least. Another thing I have noticed is there seems to be something not connected on my 4 barrel carb. I assumed it to be an old throttle part but I was told it's supposed to be hooked up to something and isn't. I will show a picture of it. Just another thought.

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Hold off on the Seafoam lets just get the compression test done first. We want to make sure we are not adding problems to our troubleshooting. When you get the picture of the part off the carb post it and we will figure it out.

If it is not a number matching car before I would dump $1500 or so into rebuilding hte engine I would hit up Sumitt Racing and get a prebuilt long block
http://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts...-sfa/overview/
This one is ready to go you might need a new hood because it sits so high.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:43 PM   #23
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Hold off on the Seafoam lets just get the compression test done first. We want to make sure we are not adding problems to our troubleshooting. When you get the picture of the part off the carb post it and we will figure it out.

If it is not a number matching car before I would dump $1500 or so into rebuilding hte engine I would hit up Sumitt Racing and get a prebuilt long block
http://www.summitracing.com/oh/parts...-sfa/overview/
This one is ready to go you might need a new hood because it sits so high.
Okay. I won't use seafoam until the compressuon test is done. Is there a way to clean the gunk out of the valve covers without running the engine? Like something I can spray it down with? Just curious. I couldn't get that link to work but I will check out summits crate engines. Everyone I have seen is pretty expensive though. I will get a pic of the carb and post it

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Old 02-27-2014, 05:25 PM   #24
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don't worry about the gunk yet run the compression test if it fails then we know which way to go if it passes then we clean the engine and run the compression test again. if it is that gummed up it might not every have got hot enough to clean it out.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:47 PM   #25
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don't worry about the gunk yet run the compression test if it fails then we know which way to go if it passes then we clean the engine and run the compression test again. if it is that gummed up it might not every have got hot enough to clean it out.
Sounds like a good plan. I will do a compression test before anything else.

It is the part in my hand. (Middle Finger) I was told it should be attached to the throttle for for something but it is not. I was going to circle it in red but I can't figure out how to. Let me know if you need a better idea of what it is.

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Old 02-27-2014, 07:31 PM   #26
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Sounds like a good plan. I will do a compression test before anything else.

It is the part in my hand. (Middle Finger) I was told it should be attached to the throttle for for something but it is not. I was going to circle it in red but I can't figure out how to. Let me know if you need a better idea of what it is.

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Hum that does look like the throttle linkage. Check out this picture and see what is missing I did a Bing search on Edelbrock carb linkage and there are a lot of good pictures to see what is going on.

edelbrock carb linkages - Bing Images
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:43 PM   #27
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Hum that does look like the throttle linkage. Check out this picture and see what is missing I did a Bing search on Edelbrock carb linkage and there are a lot of good pictures to see what is going on.

edelbrock carb linkages - Bing Images
Thanks. I'll look into it a bit and try an figure it out. I'm hoping to have the compression test done before sometime in the middle of next week. I will most definitely update then if not before. I really appreciate everyone's assistance.

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Old 02-28-2014, 01:14 AM   #28
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Where is the idle adjustment screw Josh? It looks like thats it, right at your middle finger. Anyway, it looks like it's on the throttle shaft backwards.
And I'm assuming that this car has an automatic transmission? If so, there needs to be a "kick down" cable for the transmission attached to the throttle as well.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:24 AM   #29
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There are two screws on the front of the carb. Hmm. I will look into that. I'm new to 4 barrels so I am trying to lean as much as I can and the only think I knew was it wasn't hooked up right and is missing something. Thanks!

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Old 02-28-2014, 08:58 AM   #30
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there needs to be a "kick down" cable for the transmission attached to the throttle as well.
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Old 02-28-2014, 09:00 AM   #31
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No, you should actually have one...and so should I.
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:54 PM   #32
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When doing a compression test is it necessary to let the engine warm up before testing it? Also, what does the line to the transmission do?

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Old 03-07-2014, 07:13 PM   #33
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The engine temp doesn't matter and that should be a vacuum line that controls up shifts (1 and 2 I think). If the motor blows white smoke it could be a bad modulator at the end of that line on the trans
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:30 PM   #34
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Okay thanks. I will worry about that after I do the compression test. I will get back to you guys with the results and what I should do next.

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Old 03-09-2014, 02:51 PM   #35
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When doing the compression do I need to worry about the oil being full or anything? Or do I just test it as it is?


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