my 66 coupe... - Page 13 - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > Classic Mustangs

Join Mustang Evolution Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 10-03-2016, 02:16 AM   #421
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
I don't think that Julien is necessarily over analyzing this build... He is just narrowing down his priorities.

I have a Performer-plus cam in the 460 in my truck and it works good for a relatively low RPM engine (below 5000).
I would just use a set of hyperutectic pistons, do all of the machine work on the stock internals, and any head work that is neccessary. That will make a nice little mild street engine that will be reasonably inexpensive to build, and reliable. And for this sort of engine, the current exhaust system is ideal, so that won't have to be changed.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-03-2016, 11:15 AM   #422
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
The thing is that all the builds that I see in car shows in my area are way too loud for European standards... So I fear the result of my choices.
I don't want a crazy street machine, I want a nice old sports car for a gentleman driver.
I just need a little more than a stock engine.

Overthinking? Yes, rather before than after!
Isn't that what a forum is for?
I could just call summit and ask them for their advise but frankly, I think there is way more experience in here.

So... I'm still in the unknown...

What does that mean HiPo standards? All original with just a higher CR and a better intake?
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-03-2016, 11:50 AM   #423
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
The K-code engine was called the HiPo 289. It was Ford's high performance version of the small-block engine.

Here is some history.
http://www.kcode.net/Khistory.htm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Mustang Evolution mobile app
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 12:30 PM   #424
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
So what could I build to be in this spirit?
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 04:32 PM   #425
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
Basically, the last engine that olerodder described would be like a K-code engine. An engine with a compression ratio of around 9.5 to 10:1, mildly aggressive cam, and mildly ported heads is about like a K-code engine. By today's standards, it is what we refer to as a mild street build.
You should do some further investigation into that 289 engine that you mentioned earlier, on the off chance that it may be an actual K-code 289. That would be a very nice starting point for the kind of engine that you are considering building!
In any case, you can build a very good "clone" of a K-code using almost any 289-302 engine. Even the original spec solid lifter camshaft is available.
Here is an informative thread (The first half anyway!) that goes into detail about how to build a replica of the K-code 289 HiPo.

And there is also some information regarding swapping a 289 HiPo cam into a Boss 302, that olerodder may, or may not, find interesting.
http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...=1475527981191

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Mustang Evolution mobile app
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 05:14 PM   #426
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
What kind of cam did the Hipo have?

I'm actually looking at 4 cams that don't look bad:

EDL2122: Edelbrock performance plus.
Comp 31-218-2 "daily performance"
Comp 31-416-3 "low end torque"
Comp 31-238-3 "good response/mid range"

Would they make a nice classic gentlemen's sports car?
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 05:41 PM   #427
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
I'm not sure about the exact specifications, but it is a solid lifter cam designed more for high RPM power.
I think that any of those cams that you listed would be good choices for the engine that you described. They make power in a RPM range that will be useful in a daily driver car.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2016, 11:56 PM   #428
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Sorry Juliean, I was just really frustrated last night as I thought I had outlined what you needed to use to build a motor almost exactly like the 289/271hp motor. The 271 HiPo cam is about .477 lift on int/exh and around 240 duration @.050" lift. The only issue with this cam is that below 1500/1900 rpm there isn't much more than a stock cam and where it really makes peak hp is very near 6000rpm.
Since you are going to have to bore the motor out...hopefully no more that .030"...and set the deck height at around .005" as I mentioned earlier you need to shop around for the dome/recess to be in the +4/6 range so you can bring the compression up to at least 9.5 or even 10. to 1. Then if you rework your stock heads and do some port matching to the headers and intake, use a high rise dual plane intake I would say that you have two choices as far as cam styles.
You could get a retro fit kit with a roller cam which will allow you to run a better profile but with the same characteristics as a hydraulic flat tappet cam...it's twice as expensive as a solid or hydraulic cam but will outlast these cams by two to three times...are easier on the whole valve train...Just a thought...although we would need to know what year your block you have from the casting numbers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...view/make/ford
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2016, 09:56 PM   #429
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Sorry, I mentioned two cams that I thought would fit your needs.
They are
1. Schneider - part #3306, cam grind 135H
2. Isky - part #351262 or CL351262 for the cam kit

I have used both these cams on SBF's as they are really close to 271hp HiPo cam and both of these cam makers have been in business since I was in diapers...which is a Loooonnnnngggg time.

Also, keep in mind that putting even a mild cam like these 289 HiPo cams in a 4spd car with with less than 3:08 gears will have an impact when you are starting from a stop...and also you will really need to put the motor back together with at least 9.5 to 1 CR...if you go with less compression then there is no reason to run an aftermarket cam...IMHO
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 11:14 AM   #430
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
What about the Comp Nostalgia plus cam?
N+271H
Isn't that a cam specially designed to make a 350GT engine out of a 302?
It has 266/273 duration, 112 LSA and pretty big lobes 0.3/0.297
So it's not that far from the xe262 but with more LSA and a bit more duration.
It is supposed to kick the but to an original HiPo...

What if I build this N+271H cam with cheap Flow Tek or RHS heads? Or expensive ARF165s?
(Heads with 58cc chamber of course)
Same for xe262?

The xe262 has :
Duration @0.05 218/224
Advertised duration 262/262
LSA 110
Lobes 0.309/0.313

I found this advertising video of the Nostalgia plus cam, it's with ported original heads and better springs but with same gearbox and rear end as I have (top loader close ratio 4 speed and 2.80)
https://youtu.be/lcXHQX6wr3Y
Doesn't seem to be bad...
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 05:29 PM   #431
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
What about the Comp Nostalgia plus cam?
N+271H
Isn't that a cam specially designed to make a 350GT engine out of a 302?
It has 266/273 duration, 112 LSA and pretty big lobes 0.3/0.297
So it's not that far from the xe262 but with more LSA and a bit more duration.
It is supposed to kick the but to an original HiPo...
The RPM range on this cam is 2200 rpm to 6400 rpm which is higher than I thought you wanted to push the car. The two cams I mentioned both the Isky and the Schneider start making power a little lower in rpm, from 1900rpm to 5500rpm and 2000rpm to 6000rpm. Also there are a couple of cams that Elgin makes...they make the original flat tappet 271 hp HiPo cam and have for almost 35 years...the numbers are E-1027-P and E-947-P.

What if I build this N+271H cam with cheap Flow Tek or RHS heads? Or expensive ARF165s?
(Heads with 58cc chamber of course)
Same for xe262?
If you want to buy aluminum heads made in China you can be my guest, just be aware that they are not even half as good as the Edelbrock and may cause you problems in the furture...again, if you are thinking about buying heads why not just pony up for the Edelbrock 2027 kit which includes the whole top end and maybe the most important thing is that they have been dyno'd and do work together so there is no guess work on your part...IMHO

The xe262 has :
Duration @0.05 218/224
Advertised duration 262/262
LSA 110
Lobes 0.309/0.313

I found this advertising video of the Nostalgia plus cam, it's with ported original heads and better springs but with same gearbox and rear end as I have (top loader close ratio 4 speed and 2.80)
https://youtu.be/lcXHQX6wr3Y
Doesn't seem to be bad...
If you do most of your driving on the autoroute then the 2.80's will be great for high speed driving...around town I doubt you will ever get out of 3rd and could be driving in 2nd if you get into traffic. A stock cam will do fine on both but once you put this type of cam in the car city driving becomes more work unless you have a higher gear (My 14 TrakPak had a 6spd and 3.73's and at speed on the highway carving corners at red line I was mostly in 5th... around town I could drive in 4th down to 30mph with no bogging or hesitation)...most cams you've been looking at require at least 3.08's although 3.50's would be the ideal gear. Originally 64-1/2/65/66 that cam with a factory installed 289 271 hp HiPo's came with 3.50 gears and the top loader...I've seen a couple that even came with 3.89's. If Ford would have put 2.80's in the HiPo's they would have had people coming back with burnt up clutches and complaining about how sluggish it was at low speeds.
YOU NEED TO THINK THROUGH BUILDING THE ENTIRE CAR TO WORK TOGETHER...NOT EACH PART WORKING AS A SEPARATE PART.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 09:18 PM   #432
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
Aghhhhhhhh! Oh damn!

Actually with my bad 302 I have less than 200hp and I'm always looking for a 5th gear!
Down town I love driving almost at idle in 3rd or 4th... just playing with the low torque.
as I understand your message, I won' be able to do that anymore???

The way I drive my car today is pulling the gears to 2000rpm, sometimes even less.
And if I need power, I double clutch to down gear 1 or 2 gear ratios and I take off.

God damn, I thought I was getting there... and now I'm confused again.


The project is still:
A daily driver, gentleman's driver, old sports car (sport, not race), 3.00 rear end, top loader 4, 600cfm carb, msd ignition.
And quiet... but apparently that is not the engine.
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 12:03 AM   #433
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
If I were building an early Mustang I would seriously think about putting either a 5 or 6spd in it just for the fun factor...that's just me.
Yes, the way you drive around town will be effected by the non-stock cam and my guess is that if you keep the 2.80 gears you will now be using 2nd and 3rd...or maybe you need to look at an RV type cam and limit your rpm to less than 5000 rpm.
Remember...to build any car you must plan and purchase parts that will together, and if you hardly ever go over 4000 rpm there is no reason to buy one that will go to 6000rpm. Driving the way you described could actually hurt the motor if it's built to make 300/350hp...slow speeds can build up carbon deposits and contaminate the oil with fuel which in turn will wear the bearings and rings...if you actually drive like you said you do most of the time I would just rebuild the motor as a stock motor much the way you have it now...maybe with just a little more compression than stock. Mustangs back in their day were a sporty car and fun to drive when they were stock...225 to 250 hp with a 4spd would make a nice driver and with suspension mods will perform very well..IMHO
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2016, 01:36 AM   #434
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
Basically, a truck engine. A rebuild using new pistons to raise the compression ratio, a mild camshaft similar to the Performer-plus specifications, and some mild porting to clean up the cylinder heads.
That is exactly the engine that you described Julian. It will have a relatively smooth idle, still make good torque at low RPM'S, have improved mid-range power, and will be an excellent engine for a daily driver.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 11:00 AM   #435
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
Rebuilding the engine as it is have me facing another problem: my valve seats are not good for unleaded fuel... so rebuilding my heads is gonna cost me pretty much in labour to replace the guides, the seats, valves, springs... All that for bad heads!

How would my engine behave with other heads keeping my original cam or a super mild one?
would it be happier with AFR165s?
Or GT40x turbo stuff (58cc) ?
Or FlowTek (58cc) ?
FlowTek and GT40x are super cheap (1000$pr or less) but they seem to flow way better than my stock heads, they raise my compression, they have good valve seats for unleaded, porting is probably better too and they're aluminum so better cooling...
Would it give a little extra to an original rebuild?
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 12:28 PM   #436
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
Rebuilding the engine as it is have me facing another problem: my valve seats are not good for unleaded fuel... so rebuilding my heads is gonna cost me pretty much in labour to replace the guides, the seats, valves, springs... All that for bad heads!

How would my engine behave with other heads keeping my original cam or a super mild one?
would it be happier with AFR165s?Good heads but expensive and on a very mild motor the Edelbrock E Street heads perform better.
Or GT40x turbo stuff (58cc) ?These were designed for the newer 5.0l and will only fit the GT40 intake...really made for the fuel injection intakes.
Or FlowTek (58cc) ?Junk heads made in China and Edelbrock E Street heads which are much better are only $200 more.
FlowTek and GT40x are super cheap (1000$pr or less) but they seem to flow way better than my stock heads, they raise my compressionYou need to remember that you MUST set up a motor for the correct compression ratio...your stock heads may have anywhere from 53cc to 63cc combustion chamber volume and without knowing which heads you have you're in the dark! If you set the motor up as I have mentioned more than once for 9.5 to 10.1 CR with correct pistons and deck height that will tell you which combustion chamber you need to select...just randomly choosing a head could either put the CR too low or more importantly too high...This is Extremement Important., they have good valve seats for unleaded, porting is probably better too and they're aluminum so better cooling...
Would it give a little extra to an original rebuild?
Yes it would as long as you set the motor up for the correct CR and choose the right combustion chamber volume.

Here is a good read on the different heads;

Six Budget Ford Heads That Work - Hot Rod Network

One last thing as I've mentioned this before, the Flow-Tek are made in China and the castings are hit and miss as far as reliability...I have seen these in person along with the heads RHS sells and as far as I'm concerned they are sub standard to any heads made in the "Good Ole USofA". Please don't cheap out on the heads...one rule of thumb I've always stuck to is, "DIRTFT".
Just thinking outside the box if you were to set up the motor for 9.5 or 10.1 compression ratio you could use a stock cam and go with 1.7 roller rockers...just a thought.
Although....once again I would lean towards the Edelbrock;

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2027
With this you have taken care of the total top end, cam, timing chain, lifters, push rods, gaskets, etc...

If you buy this before the end of the year you get a free carb...such a deal!


One last thing talking about combustion chamber volume and how much a 58cc chamber will increase compression ratio over a 63cc chamber which is what I suspect your stock heads are...it would increase compression ratio +0.2cc. So to put that into perspective if you currently have 9.0 to 1 with the 63cc heads you would then have 9.2 to 1 with the 58cc heads.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 02:13 PM   #437
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
I read bad things about E-street valve train... stories about broken springs when using flat tappet cams. But if the casting is good, that's a cheap fix.
Ok, so lets go for taking it apart!

2 weeks that I don't sleep well because of that engine project... I have learned a lot, I've pissed all of you guys...
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 02:28 PM   #438
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
I read bad things about E-street valve train... stories about broken springs when using flat tappet cams. But if the casting is good, that's a cheap fix.
Not sure but believe the heads in the 2027 are a single and not double spring so if you have anything approaching .550 lift you could go into coil bind and break springs. Also this valve train is for a hydraulic lifter, not soild lifters...your term "flat tappet" usually means solid lifter, not hydraulic.
Ok, so lets go for taking it apart!

2 weeks that I don't sleep well because of that engine project... I have learned a lot, I've pissed all of you guys...
Not pissed off, just frustrated sometimes...I'm older than dirt and my fuse is a little short every now and then. All is good.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 03:18 PM   #439
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Not pissed off, just frustrated sometimes...I'm older than dirt and my fuse is a little short every now and then. All is good.
When olerodder started with all of this internet business, his username was actually "youngrodder"...The internet has really aged him!
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 03:22 PM   #440
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
I read bad things about E-street valve train... stories about broken springs when using flat tappet cams. But if the casting is good, that's a cheap fix.
Ok, so lets go for taking it apart!

2 weeks that I don't sleep well because of that engine project... I have learned a lot, I've pissed all of you guys...
Since you won't be using an aggressive cam, nor spinning high RPM's, you really shouldn't have too much to worry about, as far as the valve train goes.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 03:42 PM   #441
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
Frankly, if I were on the other side, I would have kicked my butt!
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 05:32 PM   #442
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
When olerodder started with all of this internet business, his username was actually "youngrodder"...The internet has really aged him!
Not far from the truth
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2016, 05:35 PM   #443
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
Frankly, if I were on the other side, I would have kicked my butt!
If you would have been 1700 miles closer I may have planted my size 12 on the backside of you're bout a bout
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 04:54 PM   #444
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
So, I think that's it, I kind of almost know where I'm going.

To rebuild my heads, the shop asks me around 400$ labor (with valve seats for unleaded), that will make it 700$ with parts.
So I think I'm gonna spend a little more and go with the AFR165 with smaller valves.

For the cam, I'm still hestitating between 2:

First one:
Duration @ 0.05 : 204/214
Duration : 270/280
Lift : 0.448/0.472
Lobe : 0.28/0.295
LSA : 112
Centerline : 107

Second one:
Duration @ 0.05 : 219/226
Duration : 266/273
Lift : 0.48/0.475
Lobe : 0.3/0.297
LSA : 112
Centerline : 108

Which one would make a better daily driver?

For the headers, I think I'll go for Doug's 3Y.
1-5/8 primarys, 2" secondarys, 2-1/2" collector. And I'll keep my 2" pipes.
(I'll just modify the tips to go thru the valance)

Good daily or not?
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 06:03 PM   #445
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
So, I think that's it, I kind of almost know where I'm going.

To rebuild my heads, the shop asks me around 400$ labor (with valve seats for unleaded), that will make it 700$ with parts.
So I think I'm gonna spend a little more and go with the AFR165 with smaller valves.

For the cam, I'm still hestitating between 2:

First one:
Duration @ 0.05 : 204/214
Duration : 270/280
Lift : 0.448/0.472
Lobe : 0.28/0.295
LSA : 112
Centerline : 107

Second one:
Duration @ 0.05 : 219/226
Duration : 266/273
Lift : 0.48/0.475
Lobe : 0.3/0.297
LSA : 112
Centerline : 108

Which one would make a better daily driver?

For the headers, I think I'll go for Doug's 3Y.
1-5/8 primarys, 2" secondarys, 2-1/2" collector. And I'll keep my 2" pipes.
(I'll just modify the tips to go thru the valance)

Good daily or not?
First lets talk about the headers and then work our way back. TriY headers are great for "Off Idle" to about 4500 rpm...beyond that they just don't produce anymore HP/TQ. So, if you are going with a cam I would recommend against them.
I think...this is just my suggestion...that going with some long tube headers are that are 1-5/8" to a 2.5" collector would give you better performance/fuel economy/throttle response especially with the AFR heads.

Remember that the more duration you have the higher the engine rpm will have to be to make HP. If you have more than 210/220 you will start loosing intake vacuum which could effect your brakes...if you have power brakes...
If it were me I'd go with the Edelbrock 2027 top end kit as the cam is just about perfect for your needs and it's proven to work as a complete kit.
Enough correspondence...you need to make up your mind and just go out and "Get It Done"!
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 07:08 PM   #446
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
No, not enough talking: the parts are not yet ordered... but the engine gets out of the car tomorrow morning.

1- ok for pipe. Understood.
I didn't find any long tubes in 1-5/8 with smaller than 3" collectors.... yet.

2- Yes, one of the cams is the little one from Edelbrock. I could go for the Edy small package (331hp they say), it would be way cheaper than the AFR but I read bad things about the "E-street" entry level heads: bad valve train they say, and springs have a smaller diameter than all the aftermarket ones, so it's not easy to fix the problem if it occurres.
My understanding is that AFR are the best product available for a mild upgrade. ARF165 have small intake (Edy's are all 170cc), better for low end torque. And they have a 58cc chamber, all Edy's have 60cc.
Or I could also have my heads rebuilt...

What if I don't like the cam I pick?
Is it possible to swap a cam on a 66 with the engine in place?

And if I don't like my cam, how would perform AFR heads with a original cam?

About vacuum, both cams above have 112 LSA, not 110 as most comp cams. Edelbrock says that with their little cam I'll have 16" of vacuum.
For the other one it advertises a "good" vacuum.
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2016, 08:01 PM   #447
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
No, not enough talking: the parts are not yet ordered... but the engine gets out of the car tomorrow morning.

1- ok for pipe. Understood.
I didn't find any long tubes in 1-5/8 with smaller than 3" collectors.... yet.
I'd try JBA or Hooker...even a 1-1/2" primary would be acceptable since you aren't spinning the motor over 5500rpm.
2- Yes, one of the cams is the little one from Edelbrock. I could go for the Edy small package (331hp they say), it would be way cheaper than the AFR but I read bad things about the "E-street" entry level heads: bad valve train they say, and springs have a smaller diameter than all the aftermarket ones, so it's not easy to fix the problem if it occurres.
Can you send me some links talking about the bad valve train. I've looked on the internet and can't find anything relating to the valve springs. The springs on the E street heads are not recommended for over .550" lift and look to be well suited to a hydraulic cam.

What if I don't like the cam I pick?
Is it possible to swap a cam on a 66 with the engine in place?
I've changed cams in a cars dozens of times...if you don't like the cam then you can change it. It takes an afternoon and unlike some of the newer motors it's not rocket science.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 01:38 AM   #448
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 6,756
I think that you will be happy with the AFR 165 head/Performer cam combination.

Why do you want to replace your headers if they are still serviceable?
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 09:34 AM   #449
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
AFR would allow me to upgrade the cam where the E-streets won't give me that much freedom.
Unless I'm sure that little cam is really what I need... I don't realize.

For the headers, I have old rusty patriot style 3Ys... 2-1/2" primarys
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 01:48 PM   #450
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Unless you are going to turn you Mustang into a race car with a cam of more than .530/.550 lift then you will also have to make sure the valve reliefs in the pistons are deep enough...also if those triY's actually have 2-1/2" primaries they are pulling HP out of your motor instead of adding as they are hugely oversided...2-1/2 primary tubes may be too big for a 800hp motor as my 650HP motor only had 1-3/4" stepped to 1-7/8 with 3-1/2 13 degree merge collectors.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 03:06 PM   #451
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
1-1/2 of course, my mistake!
(And 1-3/4 secondarys with 2.5" collector)
I have the cheapest possible 3Y headers.
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 08:44 PM   #452
Registered Member
Regular
 
fstbck70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Omaha
Region: Nebraska
Posts: 113
Don't want to hijack the thread, but I have a question for @olerodder.

If you had an empty engine bay, would you go about building your own engine or going the crate engine route? Based on your expertise, which is a better value?


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang SRCaADDz(:53
fstbck70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 08:53 PM   #453
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
Engine is out!

Bloc says: C8OE-6015A and 7M30
Heads says: 302, C80E, 7M22, 2V

Valve seats are worse than dead, they appear to be sinking way too deap.
Pistons have already been replaced, a little bit dished, original bore.
Block needs to be bored.
Crank has already been machined, the engine has had a previous life... but doesn't look too bad.

1- I need to do research on my block to know what size of combustion chamber these heads are... that will help choosing pistons: flat or dished?
What CR is this engine supposed to have from factory?

2- I'm still wondering if I go for E-street or AFR... Olerodder might be right, this car might never see a big cam so E-street heads should be enough.
But what if I want a little more?
(Maybe the E-street will be more than enough also... I have no idea)

But I'm happy work is in progress!
My internet is down at home, I'll try to send pictures from work tomorrow.
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 09:58 PM   #454
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
Engine is out!

Bloc says: C8OE-6015A and 7M30
1968/69 302 block.
Heads says: 302, C80E, 7M22, 2V
C80E-M heads are 68/70 302 with nominal 63cc chambers
Valve seats are worse than dead, they appear to be sinking way too deap.
Pistons have already been replaced, a little bit dished, original bore.
Are you sure it's a 4.0" bore?
Block needs to be bored.
Hopefully no more than 0.030"
Crank has already been machined, the engine has had a previous life... but doesn't look too bad.
If the crank has already been machined 0.020" under it is not wise to go 0.030 or 0.040" under as it will make the crank too weak.

1- I need to do research on my block to know what size of combustion chamber these heads are... that will help choosing pistons: flat or dished?
What CR is this engine supposed to have from factory?
CR for a 68/70 2barrel motor is 9.01 to 1.

2- I'm still wondering if I go for E-street or AFR... Olerodder might be right, this car might never see a big cam so E-street heads should be enough.
But what if I want a little more?
(Maybe the E-street will be more than enough also... I have no idea)

But I'm happy work is in progress!
My internet is down at home, I'll try to send pictures from work tomorrow.
Have you talked with your machine shop? You want pistons with +4cc's/+6cc's...flat top except for the valve reliefs. You want the deck height to be set at 0.005" and with the E street or AFR's that should put you between 9.5 to 1 and 10.0 to 1. I think the E street heads are 60cc and the AFR's are 58cc.
Also make sure that the block is drilled and tapped for oil galley plugs...don't let them use interference fit plugs like your freeze plugs.
I'd love to see pictures of the bearings, pistons/rings and the cam. Can you find any numbers on the cam?
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2016, 10:03 PM   #455
Registered Member
Regular
 
Uj_SPRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Antonio
Region: Texas
Posts: 221
So, C80E-6015A tells that my engine was built in Cleveland. They started using these blocks mid 67 when they ran out of 289s.
7M22 and 7M30 tells that the block was made December 30th 1967 and the heads on the 22nd.

But, in fact nothing tells me if this engine is a 289 or a 302! It depends ds on the internals.
Uj_SPRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 4 Cylinder | V6 | Classic Mustangs || Tech and Talk > Classic Mustangs

« 67 restomod | - »
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whats looks better a 1966 mustang coupe, or a 1967 mustang coupe? Carmi Classic Mustangs 3 12-17-2011 03:51 AM
Fiberglass pieces for '66 coupe and '68 coupe..where to buy? MustangMatt Mustang Audio & Video 2 01-19-2005 10:14 PM
87-93 5.0 Coupe Jayber Mustang Parts for Sale and Wanted 3 09-06-2004 07:41 AM
Got to drive a turbo coupe Tbird232ci The Bar 3 05-08-2004 01:39 PM
T-bird Turbo Coupe?? fast64 The Bar 3 11-05-2003 09:37 AM

» Like Us On Facebook



08:46 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.