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Old 03-31-2016, 10:52 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
This block from Summit is a pretty good starting point as it has been line honed, decked, bored and mag'd for cracks...plus you get the spec sheet showing what they have done....and it's a good price.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150110/overview/
Yes, 750 for a block that is ready to go seems more than fair!
where's the trap?
it seems cheaper than the machining cost.

Eastwood ford blue ceramic paint and it's ready for assembly!

By the way, I've seen blocks with the interior painted...
good or bad idea?
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:46 AM   #37
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Yes, 750 for a block that is ready to go seems more than fair!
where's the trap?
it seems cheaper than the machining cost.

Eastwood ford blue ceramic paint and it's ready for assembly!

By the way, I've seen blocks with the interior painted...
good or bad idea?
As with everything there is never a free lunch....Summit or their supplier buys the blocks for almost nothing....and does the machine work in a large production shop...most likely....therefore reducing the costs.
As with any part you buy new or used you need to check to make sure everything is up to your standards....this includes grinding away any flashing on the motor, checking each bore to make sure you know exactly what the bore is, general cleaning with hot soap and water...then followed by cleaning the exterior of the block with a degreaser and running pipe cleaners down all of the oil galleries....then chase all of the treads with a "Chase", not a tap. A tap takes metal away and a "Chase" does not but will clean the thread.........this is just standard procedure to make sure the block is spotless.
Now, to blueprint an engine a machine shop should hone each cylinder to match each individual piston for a specific clearance....this is important because each piston is not exactly the same size as the other.....and they can very by 0.0005 or more....and if you are putting together a motor make sure it gets put together right the first time.....then have the machine shop check the deck height and mains to make sure the previous work was done correctly....attention to detail is just one of the reasons motors I've built live long and perform well.
So, just buying the block is just the first step....unless you want to build one half way. There is a lot more to building a motor than just buying parts and assembling it.
As for headers...I've always put long tube headers on as I believe they give better performance than shorties....in some cases shorty headers do very little to increase HP/TQ over OE manifolds. Remember that smaller headers are better than larger diameter.....I would say that 1-5/8" or no more than 1-3/4" headers would work great...yes, 2.5" tail pipes with an H or X will work great.
Painting the interior of the motor is great as it allows the oil to return faster, and in some cases is great....just remember than oil hitting the crank and rods causes friction and that causes heat....also the crank hitting the oil takes energy to push the oil away....one reason for using a windage tray/screen...and also depends on the oil pan configuration....stock oil pans are mostly junk and do nothing to control oil flow/cavitation/sloshing back and forth.
Also, unless you clean the block spotlessly this paint/expoy could come off and cause some major issues going through the oiling system...take out bearings, rings....ect.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:43 PM   #38
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I'm far from being a begginer using a hammer for the first time, I'm a mechanical engineer with 15 years experience... I'm also a 2 strokes crazy builder: 20 years of engine redesign and tuning for race on track, I sell specialy designed cylinder heads with wierd shapes on demand and all kinds of goodies. I drive a 1962 Vespa scooter that blows 28rwhp instead of 6 using a home made electronic fuel injection: 100mph on 10 inch wheels!
So since I moved in the US I'm realy excited to discover the universe of V8 and classic american muscles!!!
When I build engines, I'm not just throwing parts togeither, in a mechanical assembly I know that every adjustments counts.
I'm not (yet) asking "how to" do things but I'm looking forward using your experience on what parts to choose to achieve my goal, where to purchase my parts... I have no idea yet about how every part influences the shape of a V8 power curve, I'm not even able to tell what power curve I want!

I would like to make a car that is fun in about every situation... a good compromise.
enought power to smoke the tires and have a decent accel,
not too much power to stay reliable,
a tipical muscle car sound but not loud to the point neibours throw rocks at me when I come home late,
I don't want it to rev higher than 6500ish,
I want my engine bay to look all original style, no chrome, no electric fan, no EFI, no electric water pump, no electric fuel pump... Just good quality bullet proof products that will last long.
I do think that if in 66 this body was able to handle 270hp it can handle a little more with a few easy upgrades without going into roll cage!
I'm sure that's a common request and that technical specs to get there are pretty standard.
So even if I have no determined budget that doesn't mean that there's no limit... I will not spend 10g on the engine of a car when the value of the car will never reach 20! this is no K code fast back, no show car, no race car of any kind. I want to keep it simple.

I guess that the idea of throwing a complete Edelbrock kit on a regular 302 would meet my need... (heads/intake/cam/carb) But I feel like that's the easy way and doing so I won't learn that much!
I would like to understand a bit what's going on.

And as soon as my engine is done, I want to road trip it from Texas to the salt flats! that's my kind of tourism!
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:06 PM   #39
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The problem with classic are that you'll never get your money out of the unless you start with a good she'll to start with and spend 30k on it. And you said you don't plan on selling it so I wouldn't be that concerned with breaking even on the price. I'm not suggesting spending 10k on a motor but I think a more accurate estimate for an engine build is about 5k. And to make the car handle mor hp it's not too difficult to to reinforce the body to make it stiff enough. Especially since you said your mechanically inclined you should be able to build some sub frame connectors and make a cross member connecting the two. I'm. It sure about 66's but there and many people who have made a set of their own for 67/8. All of which will add value to the car in the end so it may be something you should look into.
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
I'm far from being a begginer using a hammer for the first time, I'm a mechanical engineer with 15 years experience... I'm also a 2 strokes crazy builder: 20 years of engine redesign and tuning for race on track, I sell specialy designed cylinder heads with wierd shapes on demand and all kinds of goodies. I drive a 1962 Vespa scooter that blows 28rwhp instead of 6 using a home made electronic fuel injection: 100mph on 10 inch wheels!
So since I moved in the US I'm realy excited to discover the universe of V8 and classic american muscles!!!
When I build engines, I'm not just throwing parts togeither, in a mechanical assembly I know that every adjustments counts.
I'm not (yet) asking "how to" do things but I'm looking forward using your experience on what parts to choose to achieve my goal, where to purchase my parts... I have no idea yet about how every part influences the shape of a V8 power curve, I'm not even able to tell what power curve I want!

I would like to make a car that is fun in about every situation... a good compromise.
enought power to smoke the tires and have a decent accel,
not too much power to stay reliable,
a tipical muscle car sound but not loud to the point neibours throw rocks at me when I come home late,
I don't want it to rev higher than 6500ish,
I want my engine bay to look all original style, no chrome, no electric fan, no EFI, no electric water pump, no electric fuel pump... Just good quality bullet proof products that will last long.
I do think that if in 66 this body was able to handle 270hp it can handle a little more with a few easy upgrades without going into roll cage!
I'm sure that's a common request and that technical specs to get there are pretty standard.
So even if I have no determined budget that doesn't mean that there's no limit... I will not spend 10g on the engine of a car when the value of the car will never reach 20! this is no K code fast back, no show car, no race car of any kind. I want to keep it simple.

I guess that the idea of throwing a complete Edelbrock kit on a regular 302 would meet my need... (heads/intake/cam/carb) But I feel like that's the easy way and doing so I won't learn that much!
I would like to understand a bit what's going on.

And as soon as my engine is done, I want to road trip it from Texas to the salt flats! that's my kind of tourism!
Hope I didn't offend you with my comments.
Without knowing your personal experience on SBF motors I tried to lay it out straight up without any frosting on top.
It's a small world...........I have been a mechanical engineer for over 45 years and drag racing in NHRA for over 35 years and spent over 10 years racing in SCCA.....building most of my own cars from the ground up.....back in the 60's I didn't have 2 cents to rub together so you had to get real creative to be competitive.
I have also designed heads....for Ford Flathead V8's...and the flathead motors they were on set some records at The Bonneville Salt Flats and El Mirage years ago...they were based on old designs from Harley Davidson Flat Head racing development in the 30's/40's. So, I guess we have a few things in common although I've got 50 years on you. I have enclosed a picture of 289 ci Ford Flathead Motor with my own two piece head design along with my own header design.........stock the motor was 85 HP and 239 ci....on the dyno it did 315 HP at 5200 rpm.
The 66 was a great car back in the day......today they lack steering response, stopping power, cornering ability and the platform is as a mentioned early something like a wet noodle. You don't need a roll cage unless you are going to race the car....Bonneville, Silver States Classic, El Mirage....even then not until you get over 130mph, plus they take up too much space in the car. Good triangular supporting between the shock towers and firewall is good start, changing the front end geometry using Global West components, putting some decent disc brakes up front and in the rear along with better tires and and rims.
Reinforcing the front rear spring eye mounting, adding subframe connectors along with putting some jacking rails under the car so you don't have to jack the car up on the body seam....then a decent set of rear springs and good adjustable shocks front and rear and you've got a good platform that will take whatever you want to throw at it.........So, one last thing before I go out and burn some midnight oil.....building a 300/350 HP motor that is reliable doesn't cost any more than building a 400/450 HP motor....and the 400+ HP SBF will be as reliable as the 300+......and will be easy to drive around town assuming you don't put 4:56's in the rear. It's kind of like cooking for just one person is a lot harder than cooking for two.......and doesn't cost any more. So, if you really only want 300 HP I would suggest building a good short block and working with 69 351w 4v heads...........that way you can put your own spin on head mods...and there are a few.
I've got a list started with suggestions and parts I should have done in a couple of days........Ton copain John
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:01 AM   #41
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sub connectors... That's a point I'll need to get into.
John, what do you meen by jacking rails? never heard of that but even using soft wood I'm busting my car with the jack!

concerning suspension, my car was in such a poor condition when I've bought it that I didn't have time to do my home work properly and I've just replaced everything for original style parts except for a few things as sway bars, 4.5 leafs instead of 4, 1" cheap lowering coils... So I might go back to that later in the project.
for the brakes, my thought was that there is no weight in the back of this car so I went for booster/double bowl, proportioning valve and ssbc discs only in the front with 4 pistons calipers. I guess it's gonna stay this way for a while!
for the stifness, for the moment just export braces and monty bar and traction bars that I didn't install yet.

To come back to the engine, the 351 would not be a no go but I have no idea what that swap involves... Is it an easy game?
engine mounts the same? bell housing the same?
what I like with the 302 is that a "modern" roller is an invisible swap of the original 289. That makes everything easy for all systems as AC or steering pumps, water pump... everything designed for a 66 mustang fits!

I start liking the idea of a 347 stroker with a super mild cam. bigger ci so more tq and max hp at lower rpm. I've seen really expensive parts for this kind of engine but as I don't want blower or juice I believe that I can stick to cast crank, "I" rods and non forged pistons which are afordable.

for the wheels I'm actualy still using the piece of sxxx that came with it: ugly aluminum rims 80's style with stupid 195/65/14 that give a realy wierd look!
It looks like a low rider with these tiny wheels!
I was in love with the Magnum 500s for a while but now I think I want a set of Torq Thrust Ds in 15x7 with 225/60 in the back and 215/60 in front. What d'you think? will I need to roll some fenders?
That will be my next buy after installing my Borgeson power steering.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:21 AM   #42
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For suspension parts Global West is the best suspension company for early Fords that I have dealt with in the past 30 years.

1964, 1965, 1966 Mustang coupe and fastback Rocker Rail Support Kit part# 923

If you have replaced the front end components with stock pieces this piece would really help tighten up the front end...I have used it before and it does much better than the old rubber bushing.

Mustang Front End Individual Components 1964, 1965, 1966

Putting a 351w with stock heads and stock exhaust manifolds can be done fairly simply and it will be tight because of the shock towers. Once you put some good aluminum heads on you will have an even tighter situation and you will have to build a custom set of headers as nothing else will fit. A longtime ago I think Kooks headers made a set of long tube headers for a Boss 302 in an early Mustang and Maverick...don't think they do anymore.
So, in order to fit a 351w in between the shock towers with some good aluminum heads you will need to either notch the towers or take them out completely....Rod and Custom makes one....they also make one to put a Coyote in an early Mustang......now that would be a swap I would really like to do.

Complete Modular/Coyote Conversion Archives - Rod and Custom Motorsports, Inc.

Also included a picture of my old Maverick drag car showing the shock towers notched so the 351w with Roush/Yates TrickFlow R heads would fit along with custom headers.
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Old 04-01-2016, 11:27 AM   #43
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that is way beyond my actual project!
It's not a race car, it's my everyday driver! I can rent a car for a week when doing a simple swap but fitting a 351 sounds more time consuming than that.
If I was in France with my tools and my garage, I would love to!
I would even have all necessary tools to build my own headers.
By the way, in France other projects are waiting for me... as a fun swap of a skydoo E-tec engine in an old Trabant car from east Germany.

So ok, I understood : a 351w is not for me.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:40 PM   #44
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I always thought the Tradant was kind of cute looking little car....and I think it was voted one or the worst engineered cars in the world....is it going to look like this?
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:22 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
For suspension parts Global West is the best suspension company for early Fords that I have dealt with in the past 30 years.



1964, 1965, 1966 Mustang coupe and fastback Rocker Rail Support Kit part# 923



If you have replaced the front end components with stock pieces this piece would really help tighten up the front end...I have used it before and it does much better than the old rubber bushing.



Mustang Front End Individual Components 1964, 1965, 1966



Putting a 351w with stock heads and stock exhaust manifolds can be done fairly simply and it will be tight because of the shock towers. Once you put some good aluminum heads on you will have an even tighter situation and you will have to build a custom set of headers as nothing else will fit. A longtime ago I think Kooks headers made a set of long tube headers for a Boss 302 in an early Mustang and Maverick...don't think they do anymore.

So, in order to fit a 351w in between the shock towers with some good aluminum heads you will need to either notch the towers or take them out completely....Rod and Custom makes one....they also make one to put a Coyote in an early Mustang......now that would be a swap I would really like to do.



Complete Modular/Coyote Conversion Archives - Rod and Custom Motorsports, Inc.



Also included a picture of my old Maverick drag car showing the shock towers notched so the 351w with Roush/Yates TrickFlow R heads would fit along with custom headers.

+1 on Rod and Custom

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Old 04-01-2016, 11:31 PM   #46
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that is way beyond my actual project!
It's not a race car, it's my everyday driver! I can rent a car for a week when doing a simple swap but fitting a 351 sounds more time consuming than that.
If I was in France with my tools and my garage, I would love to!
I would even have all necessary tools to build my own headers.
By the way, in France other projects are waiting for me... as a fun swap of a skydoo E-tec engine in an old Trabant car from east Germany.

So ok, I understood : a 351w is not for me.
Again, if I was building a 66 this is what I'd do.....since I've done it more than once I just assumed you wanted a chassis (I assume you are taking this back to France after you've finished your job here) that would perform well on European roads, an occasional outing at a drag strip or maybe even a road course...so with that said I guess I won't worry about the chassis and just concentrate on the motor.
1. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150110/all - block
2. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-053040-2 - heads
3. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/es...3030/overview/ - internals
4. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cc...22-8/overview/ - cam kit
5. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...d/model/victor - intake manifold
6. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wsn-004150/overview/ - 2" carb spacer
7. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-1282010ve - carb
8. I'd use full lenght stepped headers, 1-5/8 stepped to 1-3/4 with 30" primary tubes

Ok this motor on a conservative tune do 440+ HP at about 5800 rpm and approximately 420lbft or TQ at about 5200 rpm.

This motor would be a great little reliable motor that you won't have to go to 6000+rpm to make good HP and TQ...........and would last a long time with the proper blue printing.

IMHO
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Old 04-04-2016, 11:24 AM   #47
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Another weekend working : I've installed the Borgeson power steering conversion!
It's just not the same car, I love it!
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:12 PM   #48
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Enjoying this post. Great questions with excellent feedback. Really like my 66 and always looking forward to the different ideas and opinions. Keep up the good work
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Old 04-05-2016, 11:32 PM   #49
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Really like the GT, nice color and great interior!
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:50 PM   #50
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Pictures of my coupe:







Damn, last night I tried to install my export braces... Not easy!
all the bolts that hold the shock tower top are rusty and busted and the threads on the shock tower tops are dead.
so I just stopped and bolt the shocks back as well as I could to be able to drive and I've ordered new shock tower tops and all nessessary hardware.
:-/
And also, as I was suspecting, I don't have enough distance between the towers for the export braces... I've got to find out where I can put a jack to work that out.
As I've just installed the Borgeson conversion, I need to get my car aligned to get more caster but I want to install the braces first.
Not always easy to work on a daily driver!
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Old 04-06-2016, 08:30 PM   #51
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With the engine in the car I'm not sure how I'd spread the towers.
Here are a couple of sites that may help with some of your questions.
Here is a picture of the 66 GT I restored in the 70's, I used a Ford export brace and Tony Branda support that I welded in to support the firewall.

Shelby Export Brace | GTSparkplugs

Building A Budget 347 Engine - How To - Mustang Monthly Magazine

Mustang Monthly How To Guides - Average Joe Restoration
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:28 PM   #52
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I know how you feel about having to daily drive your car. Iv had a new distributor that I'm to scared to put in since my car is running so good right now.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:59 AM   #53
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New subject on my project:

I face a problem with my clutch.
Problem was already existing but got even worse with the Borgeson Z-bar:
The lower part of the clutch linkage is permanently in contact with the header (except when I disengage the clutch).
it works, I'm using the car, but I don't like the fact of this contact and I dont like where it puts the slipping point at the pedal (too far, almost all the way down).

So I now see 3 options:
- cut and weld my Z-bar to change the angle and make it clear the exhaust
- go for a cable conversion
- buy other headers.

The exhaust that is actualy on my car is a classical 3Y (4-2-1) all rusted. I don't know what make it is but it looks really similar to the cheap Scott Drake one which has 1 1/2 primarys, 1 3/4 secondarys and 2 1/2 final.
I believe that this exhaust will be too small for the stoker I would like to build, so maybe my clutch problem can be the right oportunity to find a better one.

What d'you guys think?
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:18 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
New subject on my project:

I face a problem with my clutch.
Problem was already existing but got even worse with the Borgeson Z-bar:
The lower part of the clutch linkage is permanently in contact with the header (except when I disengage the clutch).
it works, I'm using the car, but I don't like the fact of this contact and I dont like where it puts the slipping point at the pedal (too far, almost all the way down).

So I now see 3 options:
- cut and weld my Z-bar to change the angle and make it clear the exhaust
- go for a cable conversion
- buy other headers.

The exhaust that is actualy on my car is a classical 3Y (4-2-1) all rusted. I don't know what make it is but it looks really similar to the cheap Scott Drake one which has 1 1/2 primarys, 1 3/4 secondarys and 2 1/2 final.
I believe that this exhaust will be too small for the stoker I would like to build, so maybe my clutch problem can be the right oportunity to find a better one.

What d'you guys think?
Your current Tri-Y headers are limited to about 4500 rpm....Tri-Y's are not a real performance header.
Long tube headers are what would work best on the 347 stroker and my recommendation would be a stepped header with 1-5/8" primary tube with 1-/34" secondary tubes.
My recommendation is none of the above, I would be to take a ball peen hammer to the tube that is in the way........even if you dent it in 1/4" or so it's not going to really degrade the performance that much.
A good set of headers will not be cheap and probably not hook up the the rest of the exhaust system and will require you make a trip to your local exhaust shop.
Just go the cheapest was since it's your daily driver....that's what I would do.
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:46 PM   #55
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I've seen a Youtube video with David Frieburger (from RoadKill) where they do tests on a dyno destroying headers and looking how it influences power drop on the Dyno... And they are amazed to see how hudge dents don't affect at all the curve!
:-p

Olleroder, what exhaust do you have in mind?
I've seen one from JBA that is 1 3/4 and goes to one 3"... apparently specialy designed for Borgeson conversion, but pricy.

I know that it won't bolt on and will need mods on the rest of the line.
time to switch my 2" to 2,5" ?
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:07 PM   #56
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Yes, usually dents won't make a huge difference on a street motor....on a race motor with very high lift and a lot of overlap a huge dent will usually make a cylinder go lean.........not a good condition to be in when pumping 14 or 15:1 compression on 114 race gas.
Usually I make my own headers or have them make at SPD in Sacramento, CA.
From experience with SBF's I would say a stepped header that starts at 1-5/8" and goes to 1-3/4" then into a merge collector that is between 12 to 14" long with a 3" diameter would be best...primary lengths of the pipes really depends on the cam you use. Yes, 2.5 pipes with an X or H and some good mufflers like Magnaflow would be the best...........I also dislike the pipes turning down before the axle.....I like pipes than come out the back and turn down much like the early Mustang non-GT's.
Yes, a good set of headers like Hooker, Headman or Dougs will cost upwards of $500.....you only get what you pay for.............
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:21 PM   #57
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I say dent it, and if it makes a huge difference then buy another pair with the proper clearance needed
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:09 AM   #58
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Didn't have time last night to dent it, but I had time to look a bit to pipes available on the market.
@ Olerodder : I found only one exhaust stepped 1-5/8 to 1-3/4... It's a Husler race ultimate for mid to high rpm at 850$ !
I don't think I'll go for that much money.
If not stepped, what diameter would be good?

Should I look to ceramic or would a painted one would be enough?
how long will last a painted exhaust?
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:43 AM   #59
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Clutch problem solved (not perfect but satisfying) denting the exhaust and playing with the settings.


Concerning my export braces install, I'll have new shock tower tops and needed hardware probably on wednesday.
I've borrowed a little bottle jack and I've cut a piece of wood the right size:
taking off the air filter, the monty bar, the starter relay and the distributor cap (maybe the distributor itself) I hope I'll find good anchor points to do what I want.

According to you, shall I loosen all the fender's bolts when I do that?
Will a jack under the engine crossmember help?
shall I loosen the engine crossmember?
What should I be carefull about?
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:00 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
Clutch problem solved (not perfect but satisfying) denting the exhaust and playing with the settings.


Concerning my export braces install, I'll have new shock tower tops and needed hardware probably on wednesday.
I've borrowed a little bottle jack and I've cut a piece of wood the right size:
taking off the air filter, the monty bar, the starter relay and the distributor cap (maybe the distributor itself) I hope I'll find good anchor points to do what I want.

According to you, shall I loosen all the fender's bolts when I do that?
Will a jack under the engine crossmember help?
shall I loosen the engine crossmember?
What should I be carefull about?

How far off from the holes are you? I would think gently(!) Lifting some of the engine weight would help. Maybe with a floor Jack on the oil pan with a piece of wood. Not lifting the whole engine or stressing the mounts, just taking some of the weight. Personally, I'd try that before unbolting too much.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:25 PM   #61
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I don't think all the bolts need to be loosened, but maybe the the valance and stone guard. I'd be more concerned about he rad support, is there any bowing to it? That's really what is holding you front end square. How far off are you? Maybe you got a defective part.
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Old 04-11-2016, 02:57 PM   #62
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When you are spreading the towers...you don't want to take any weight off the suspension....leave everything bolted together. If you start unbolting stuff and then spread the towers (I am assuming you only have to spread them .6 cm or less?????, and if you have to spread them more than that you may have another issue) when you start to put things back together the sheet metal is going to be misaligned.
One other important part of this since the towers have done some sagging is that you will need an L shaped piece of steel to go under the body seam where the export brace bolts to the firewall....this is very thin sheet metal and after bringing the towers back into alignment it will have a tendency to crack or split....I would highly suggest you have this when you bolt the export brace to the firewall.
Loosening the cross member under the motor will be ok, just don't take it off and leave enough threads to make sure it won't allow the cross member to move more than .6 cm.....assuming you don't have to pull more than that to align the holes.
Does the car have the OE tower braces on it now.........or were they taken off at some point.
Could you send a picture of the export brace and what you call tower tops?
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:12 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
Didn't have time last night to dent it, but I had time to look a bit to pipes available on the market.
@ Olerodder : I found only one exhaust stepped 1-5/8 to 1-3/4... It's a Husler race ultimate for mid to high rpm at 850$ !
I don't think I'll go for that much money.
If not stepped, what diameter would be good?

Should I look to ceramic or would a painted one would be enough?
how long will last a painted exhaust?
Yes, good headers are not cheap....too bad you don't live closer as we could make a set over a weekend.
I would look for 1-3/4" long tube and look for the header manufacturer to talk about merge collector with a collector cone inside where all of the pipes come together.
Ceramic is good as it reduces the under hood heat....with that said most of the ceramic coating you get when you buy off the shelf headers is extremely thin and really the headers should be coated on the inside also....and this is only done when you take a bare set of headers to a good coater...also you need to maintain the ceramic coating...anytime you touch the coating it will leave finger prints and these need to be cleaned before firing the motor.
Get the headers, use VHT header paint in the color of you choice, follow the directions and redo them once every year or so....remember...it's only paint.
If you were to get Stainless Steel headers you would never have to worry about painting.

First picture shows the cone inside the merge collector, second shows the 13 degree merge of the pipes into 3-1/2 collector and the third shows the headers on my Maverick drag car....just by changing the collector I brought the torque down on the motor from peak of 540lbft at 5900rmp to 544lbft at 5700rpm.
Each tube on these headers was individual so I could take them off in just a few minutes.....
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Old 04-11-2016, 03:49 PM   #64
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I am assuming you only have to spread them .6 cm or less?????, and if you have to spread them more than that you may have another issue)

you will need an L shaped piece of steel to go under the body seam where the export brace bolts to the firewall....

Could you send a picture of the export brace and what you call tower tops?
1- I've just tried quickly, but I think it's way worse than 6mm.
I have an adjustable monty bar and I had to install it the shortest possible...

I'll take good measures this evening.

2- Yes, you sent me the link to this L shaped piece. I'm planing on making it, the guys I work with have all necessary tooling for that.

3- what I call tower tops are just the metal part between the shock's upper bolts and the 3 bolts on the tower.

and yes, the original braces are on the car but I don't think they make any difference.

I know the front of my car is not perfect, there are weldings that are not original and I believe that the radiator / battery / water bag area has all been replaced.
Hard to know what a 50 year old car has been thru!


Your exhaust looks great!
So if no stepped, 1-3/4 will be good?


I'm so glad I found this forum !!!!
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:08 PM   #65
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1- I've just tried quickly, but I think it's way worse than 6mm.
I have an adjustable monty bar and I had to install it the shortest possible...

I'll take good measures this evening.

2- Yes, you sent me the link to this L shaped piece. I'm planing on making it, the guys I work with have all necessary tooling for that.

3- what I call tower tops are just the metal part between the shock's upper bolts and the 3 bolts on the tower.

and yes, the original braces are on the car but I don't think they make any difference.

I know the front of my car is not perfect, there are weldings that are not original and I believe that the radiator / battery / water bag has been replaced.
Hard to know what a 50 year old car has been thru!


Your exhaust looks great!
So if no stepped, 1-3/4 will be good?


I'm so glad I found this forum !!!!
Could you please take a picture of your engine bay....if you have more than 6 mm off....just seems like a lot if the OE braces are still attached to firewall and tops of the towers....if it's 12mm off then I'd say the frame is bent and you need to put it on a frame straightener to make sure everything is square.
Also, could take pictures of the export brace?
Yes, the 1-3/4" tubes would be as big as I'd go for the 347 motor....headers for your current motor would be 1-5/8" diameter max....

On my 66 GT I had to put it on a frame table and it was off almost 12mm. A normal variance would be 3mm on a frame....I had an OE Ford Export brace and it wouldn't fit, very similar to your issue....after straightening the frame/body it fit perfectly....Where can I find a front tower to firewall brace for my 1970 Maverick - Ask.com YouTube Search
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Old 04-11-2016, 04:50 PM   #66
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What would you think of this kind of stuff (Summit):
1966 FORD MUSTANG JBA Headers Competition-Ready Headers 6610S
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Old 04-11-2016, 05:27 PM   #67
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What would you think of this kind of stuff (Summit):
1966 FORD MUSTANG JBA Headers Competition-Ready Headers 6610S


Yes, they look good....make sure they will fit whatever head you're going to decide to go with..........hate to spend this kind of money only to find out they won't fit an aftermarket head.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:37 PM   #68
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back to my Export braces : I've just measured... As I feared it's more than 6mm, it's just a little less than 1/2 inch !
I didn't borrow that bottle jack for no reason... gotta stretch that bxxxx before going to the alignment shop to set the caster to Borgeson's specs.
No big deal if the car is not perfectly strait, as long as the wheels are in line.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:44 PM   #69
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As long as they can align it that's all that matters!
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:53 PM   #70
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As long as they can align it that's all that matters!
Well putting a jack under the hood to stretch the car sounds so stupid that I can't wait trying!

But when I look to your album and I see what you've been thru, I think my problems are cosmetic.
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