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my 66 coupe...

48K views 720 replies 17 participants last post by  Aggiesrok 
#1 ·
Hi all!

New on your forum, let me introduce myself: I moved here from France for work. I've been building and racing Two strokes motorcycles for 15 years but being in the US I wanted to discover what a V8 was... So I ended up finding my 66!

Strait, no rust, super nice black standard interior done approx 10 years ago, 10 feeter paint job (silver-blue), crapy 302 from the early 70's, top loader 4 speed close ratio, 8 inch original rear end, performer 289 intake, 1406 Edelbrock carb, nice long 3Y headers (unknown brand), H pipe 2" lines 40 series.

Since I bought it for Halloween I use it as my only and everyday car.

What have I done since then?
all ball joints, upper & lower control arms...
1" Armin/Shelby drop
1" lowering coils
24mm whiteline front sway bar
monte carlo bar
4.5 mid-eye leafs
rear sway bar
KYB shocks
Borgeson 14:1 power steering conversion (in progress)
Scott Drake aluminum radiator
new water pump (cast iron)
Overhauled my 600 Edelbrock
oil, spark plugs, thermostat, oil pressure sensor
Pertronix cheap eletronic conversion
starter motor (done last night)
gear box rebuild (new forks and the rest...)
drive shaft rebuild and balanced
SSBC front disc brakes - 4 pistons calipers
rear drum rebuild
double bowl MC + power brake + proportioning valve

So what's next? wheels I guess.
I think I want TorqThrust D 15x7 with 225/60 and 215/60... but not decided yet.

AND THE ENGINE ! and that's where I need help.
not that I don't feel confortable with doing that myself but to choose parts!!!
I'm gonna stay in the US for 1 or 2 more years then I will ship my baby to France so what I want is not 1/4 mile racing, it's more rally style driving with my friends who drive mini Coopers, Alfas, MGs...

my goal is around 300rwhp, little rough idle (to sound like a real muscle car) but I don't need to much RPM, more a wide band engine.

I'm thinking of buying a roller 302 short block and rebuild it slowly while continue using the one that's in the car.
I don't want to go for a complete upgrade kit from Edelbrock or something like that : way too easy, no fun !!!
I've read good things about TrickFlow TW heads... (AFR 165 also)
I've read good things about F303 cams with 1.6 rockers...
I've read good things about Edelbrock performer RPM intake...

Actualy I'm trying to understand a little better how Dynamic Compression Ratio works, how cam works...
when I make a 2 stroke engine I start by drawing the power curve I need and then I'm able to design and build the engine that will exaclty meet my wish. 4 stroke is for me a new world but I'm sure I'll understand better soon.

So guys, thanks for reading!
waiting for your advises,
 
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#643 ·
Last update:
- I've prepared and installed the relay and wiring for the electric fan, and I've installed the fan on my new champion 4 rows.
I have not yet installed the radiator on the car because I was looking for grade8 bolts 5/16-24 X 1/2" to bolt my pulley on the WP once I'll remove the mechanical fan and spacer...
I finally found 1" long bolts, I need to cut them.
I'll try to finish the install this weekend.
- I've received a nice QuickFuel carb, found fuel fittings that I needed... but I have not installed it yet.
- I have a new tail light wiring to install... I actually have a few wires running through the interior to fix my problems. But I'm waiting for a friend to find time to help me.
- rearend is still on its way: I have cut off all the original brackets and the housing is now clean and primed: I can manipulate it without getting dirty! Cutting operation will come soon. I haven't found my 2nd short shaft yet.
- still looking on choices to go 5 speeds... not decided yet.
Looks like it's gonna end up with a full new gearbox with swap kit.

So lots of things pending.
But no time!
Car still runs good everyday.
:)
 
#644 ·
Champion 4 rows and electric fan are installed!
Fan goes on and off perfectly.
Radiator is huge but fits right in perfectly!
Wait and see if it keeps it cool this summer in Texas with AC turned on...
:)
 
#645 ·
Problem, again.
My fuel pump is dripping!

I have a cheap pump, what would you advise for my replace?
Holley? Edelbrock?
Something else?

:-/
 
#647 ·
Oh good, a friend was giving me the same advise: forget the mechanical and go with a Holley blue with regulator...
So I guess I will follow the advise.

Where shall I install it?
Should I use a relay?
 
#649 ·
Well finally, facing the emergency, I found an Edelbrock performer mechanical pump...
When I got back home last night it was not dripping anymore but a continuous leak! Just in time.
Installed and back on the road this morning for 100miles I had to drive.
It works!
As today I had a day off, this afternoon I decided to start installing my new carb:
QuickFuel 580 hot rod series with vacuum secondaries and electric choke.
Well you know what?
This thing is AMAZING!
The engine runs 100 times better, it's a beast!!!
I haven't played yet, it's a bit rich everywhere (wideband at 12).
I've added a fuel pressure gauge at the same time: my new pump gives me 7psi at idle.

So happy!!!

There's just the sound of the electric fan that I don't like too much... even if I don't hear it when driving. It's a bit too modern for my project. I might go backwards: keep the champion 4 rows but with my 6 blades rigid fan with shroud.
Not decided yet.
 
#655 ·
Hi guys, I've got a problem...
I hear a rattle in the engine when I go over 2500rpm.
The noise is loud under load, super quiet when no load.
What can it be?
It started today
:-(
I'm scared

Could it be a rocker?
a cam bearing?
A bent pushrod?
Worse?
 
#657 ·
I already had an exhaust leak just after the engine build because I had used crap manifold gaskets... it sounds nothing like that, it's a metallic rattle and the floor pan vibrates unusually
:-(
 
#658 ·
In that case, the second thing that I would try is to use a long screwdriver, or something similar, as a mechanics stethoscope, and hold one end to various different places on the engine, and the other end to your ear, listening for any abnormal noises. If it's something wrong with the valve train, for instance, you should be able to hear it by touching the valve covers.
If the engine still seems to have normal oil pressure, you can pretty much rule out cam bearings.
 
#659 · (Edited)
I hope it's top end related...

I'll try the screwdriver trick tomorrow morning. With my luck these days I fear the worse...
I've been doing a few WOT tests these days to check wideband for my new QuickFuel. The settings where pretty rich, ran like a dream
:-/
Was the dream too good?

Thinking about that rattle,
if it gets loud under load, wouldn't it necessarily be bottom end?
 
#660 ·
If the floor vibrates I'd look at the exhaust hitting underneath the car. Are the hangers tight all the way from the headers to exhaust tips, is a hanger broken??
Straybullitt's idea about the long screw driver is an excellent idea. Start at the valve covers...one side at a time...then go to the side of the block on both sides, then to the front timing chain cover. You will hear a whrrrrring sound if the engine is normal...if you hear a ticking or knocking, pinpoint where it's coming from and go from there.
Also, I assume the oil pressure has remained the same as it was before the noise started???
Another thing to do is to start the car up, let it idle till it's warm, then put the parking brake on...put it in first gear...let out the clutch and put the motor in a load condition...even at a low idle if the motor is under load you should hear a noise...if you are going to hear one.
 
#661 · (Edited)
The news:
I went to see the machine shop who worked with me on my build and took him for a ride.
It's more a rattle sound coming from upper engine.
He's not worried about lower internals as when we rev the engine in neutral the engine revs super good with absolutely no weird noise.
The rattle is really "load dependent: if I push the clutch or let go the accelerator the noise stops right away.
Rattle starts between 2000 and 2200.
On the highway at 2200 in 4th gear, I can hear it or not just playing with the accel: tiny more gas= rattle, tiny less =no rattle.
Vacuum gauge gives normal measure and steady needle.
Didn't hear anything noticeable with screwdriver.

I'm back home, I'm gonna pull valve covers.
 
#662 ·
Ok,
If the motor revs good and there are no noises in neutral...and the noise can only be heard under load...what does the oil pressure look like while reving it in neutral vs under load.
A rattling noise when reving in neutral could be almost anything but a rattling noise when the motor is under load it certainly narrows it down.
The valve train is under constant load and although you could have an issue with the valve train I would expect you to have a miss or the motor not feeling as peppy as it did if something in the valve train was the issue.
I am assuming the heads came assembled and you checked the screw in rocker studs...??? What about the roller rockers?
Let us know what you find.
If you don't find anything I'd get some new oil, change the oil just to make sure and filter the oil to make sure there are no shavings...I'd even cut open the filter.
Too bad the machine shop didn't have a leak-down tester, that would have ruled out pistons/rings/valve train.
 
#664 · (Edited)
Finally found the problem: fried bearings...
Engine is getting ready to be pulled out.
:-(
I'm staying calm, things can always be worse.

So, now I'm wondering what I could do to improve it so that the story does never start again.
What's the best oil pump I can get?
Shall I go for bigger oil pan?

 
#665 · (Edited)
You need to determine WHY...before you can come up with a remedy!
The block main bore needs to be measured, the rods big ends need to measured also and the crank needs to measured at every main and rod journal.
So....my question to the machine shop is what were the measurements before and after they did the machine work....exactly what machine work was done to the crank, block and rods??????????
Personally, the deck height needs to be set, main bore needs to line honed and the rods need to be resized...this is bare minimum.
Also, is the machine shop going to make this right????

One last thing...I'd have them put ARP rod bolts in the rods, and I'd have them put in ARP main cap studs.
 
#666 ·
It would be helpful to know which bearing(s) were the point of failure. Main bearings or rod bearings?
Whenever I assemble a rebuilt engine, I always plasti-guage all of the bearings to ensure that the clearances are all within specifications. Basically, it is the last chance to double check the machine work that was done. Was this engine plasti-guaged during assembly?

The reason that I ask that is because, if there was a mistake during the machining process, you could put two of the best oil pumps known to mankind on the engine, and you will have the same result.
When you get the engine removed from the car, disassemble it and do a thorough inspection, and try to determine exactly where the bearings began to fail.
It's been my experience that, aside from broken oil pump drive shafts, oil pumps are rarely the cause of failed bearings.
 
#667 ·
I certainly agree with Straybullitt and my only deviation is that plasti-guage is ok although if you want to be 100% sure you need to use a micrometer.
If you do use plasti-gauge check at least two different spots on the journal. The other issue is that an inside micrometer can measure a 360 degree circle and plasti-gauge can't.

Yes, mic's are expensive although if you pick the machined pieces up at the machine shop they should have a work sheet showing all of the work plus a detailed work sheet showing all of the specs for the crank, block, rods, pistons, pins...etc. If they don't then have them bring their mic's out and show you in person...This is the only way you can be sure unless you go out and buy the micrometers yourself and measure yourself...IMHO

As an engine comes back from the machine shop you need....
1. torque the main caps and measure the bare bore with on inside micrometer
2. torque rod caps and measure the bare bore with on the inside micrometer

Then measure the thickness of the main and rod bearings...each one

Then measure the outside diameter of the crank journals...both rod and main.

With these measurements you can determine what your clearances are and if there is a problem.
I know it doesn't sound like much but micrometers can measure to 0.00001".

We used to use plasti-gauge back in the 60's although we didn't really care much about longevity.

Just my own opinion.
 
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