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Old 05-31-2016, 02:57 AM   #176
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No AC, but my 67 is similar: crank-WP-PS and crank-WP-alt. No problems with this since they are the same diameter and turn at the same rate. And as mentioned, having redundancy on your water isn't a bad thing.
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Old 05-31-2016, 08:20 AM   #177
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Well yes, I was feeling like something was wrong...
In fact yes, something was: my belt was a "17560" that was too thick. It was not fitting well in the pulley grooves. I've replaced it by a thinner "15555" and it looks much better.
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:13 PM   #178
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So what's next?

handling: I'm not totally satisfied, I feel like there's not enough weight on the front wheels when I go over 70... I guess a little more caster would help. Borgesdon says that 3.5 to 4 is really good. Unfortunately the shop who set my geometry was not able to go further than 2-1/4.
So I might one day go for GlobalWest UCA with built in "+3".
Any sents?

And then comes the engine.
My 302 is running pretty nice... Too lean I believe on the secondary jets: when I drive sport over 3000 after that my water temp tends to get high and my idle gets super rough. When I stay under 3000 I feel like crossing the USA.
Well, it's not a bad engine but... I don't like it.
So, my dream engine would be a roller 302 turned into a 347 for lots of torque but not a lot of high revs.
But now that I've spend **** ton of money on all the rest, I don't know if that coupe deserves it.
So now I'm thinking about keeping my short block in the car and replace the heads, lifters, rockers, intake, headers...
I have discussed with Olleroder what choices would work good for a 347, but what about if I keep the 302?
Is that a stupid choice to upgrade this unknown block?
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:20 PM   #179
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If you are going to spend money on the heads, valve train, intake, carb and headers I'd want to refresh the short block....why spend a lot of money only to find out down the road the short block is a grenade waiting to happen.....IMHO
Do you know anything about he 302, what year is it, how many miles on it???
What are the casting numbers on the block?
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:32 PM   #180
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Numbers might be possible to find...
But I won't save this block, that's for sure!
As it's my only vehicle, I can't disassemble everything, get it checked and build it, it will take way too long.
If I do an overhaul that will be on another one... So a 347.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:21 PM   #181
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It sounds like you are not completely satisfied with the way that your engine is tuned.
You should purchase a tuning kit for your Edelbrock carburetor and try to solve the lean condition. The kit comes with an assortment of jets, metering rods, and springs. The Edelbrock is pretty easy to tune, and it's kind of fun to make changes and then go try them out.
Also, you should have a look at the timing. I'm not just referring to the initial timing, in particular. I'm referring to total timing. Check to make sure that the vacuum advance is working correctly.
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Old 05-31-2016, 11:33 PM   #182
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Quote:
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Numbers might be possible to find...
But I won't save this block, that's for sure!
As it's my only vehicle, I can't disassemble everything, get it checked and build it, it will take way too long.
If I do an overhaul that will be on another one... So a 347.
If you aren't going to use the block you've got....we have discussed what to do when going the 347 route....personally I think a 302ci/5liter motor is ok for a mild motor and can be put together for less than a 347....not much cheaper but some.
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:10 AM   #183
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Not sure on the 66s but may want to look into a Shelby drop. It relocates the upper control arm and it gives you more positive camber
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:39 AM   #184
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@ Tyoung68: yes of course, the Shelby drop is the first thing I've done to my coupe 6 month ago => see first message page 1.

@ Olerodder: I found a guy in my region selling these used parts:
- 347 Stroker Kit. Comes with Forged Eagle Crank, Eagle H Beam Rods with ARPs, SRP .030 over pistons.
- main girdle
- Moroso deep oil pan
- 2 stock roller 302 blocks. One bored .030 and the other standard bore.
how does that sound? good or bad? he's asking 1200.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:30 AM   #185
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Used parts are just that....used. If you have or know of a good machine shop in the area that can check them out, mike them, mag them and give you a good estimate as the cost of bringing them up to specs....then go for it.
Sorry, I never trust anyone and buying used parts from someone you don't know is receipt for disaster....if they are used maybe they are worth $600, $1200 bucks for unknown parts...I'd pass.
When you are putting together a motor I'd buy a new cast crank before buying a used steel one....same goes for rods and pistons.
So, now that I've been negative lets look at this from another perspective: to have the crank cleaned, mike'd and mag'd is $100, now if you have to have it ground that's $200, and since it's a forged crank I'd have it nitrided after ground then polished to bring it back to where it should be......total for all of the work to steel crank is around $800...you can go out and buy a good steel crank for about that. Then the rods, to have the ARP bolts check, rods cleaned and if they need sizing....again you've spent almost money on refreshing the rods as you would buying new ones....as for the pistons....I've never reuse pistons unless they came out of the motor you refreshening............IMHO
As for the main girdle....forget it....after using them on a number of motors I could never understand why crank bearings wore in such a funny pattern....we checked putting a main girdle on a motor when it was line honed.....after line honing and grinding the crank every time we put the girdle on we came up with different clearances....we tried this half a dozen times and every time the clearances were different by .0005 to .0010.....without the crank clearances were around the .0001 repeatedly. Just thought you would be interested....a girdle does nothing for horizontal movement..
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:35 AM   #186
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So very true...

And if I buy a block from Summit, should I have it checked also?
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Old 06-01-2016, 12:10 PM   #187
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This is just me.....I'm pretty anal when it comes to putting a motor together and I would never buy any part....Block, Crank, Rods, Pistons, Pins, Bearings, Rings....etc. etc. without miking them first to see where they are.
I believe that Summit sends a sheet with specs on it....like I said....I trust know one when it comes to engine parts....case in point is that I've been using Crower cams, cranks and rods for over 30 years and know Brian Crower....the last solid roller I had him make specially for me.......when I got it and checked it....was bowed....I sent it back and he paid for the shipping both ways and made me a new one that was dead nuts on!
If you don't have the mikes with you find someone that does or have a good machine shop check all of the parts.....IMHO
Here is a picture of my last 408 drag motor before it was refreshened....it had 6 race seasons of hard racing before I tore it down for a refresh.....the refresh cost as much as you will spend putting together a stout 347 and I consider my labor free. "Put it together with the best parts you can afford and spend time making sure everything is exactly what it should be and the motor may outlast you"!
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:12 PM   #188
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Well I believe I don't really have the choice... I'll have to start building this 347!
The price will be the same than rebuilding my 302 and I really like the idea of having more ci to get more low end torque and the use of windsor heads to stay away from a too wild engine.

I also agree that my car will look way better with the exhaust tips thru the valance... and I might ad hood pins because the edges of my hood start vibrating at 70.

So, I'm gonna start by choosing headers and exhaust lines (because that can do both actual 302 or coming 347)
I'll weld bungs on the headers before installing to help carb tuning.
What's the best spot to put an 02 sensor?
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:11 PM   #189
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So....if you use hood pins please give these some serious thought;
http://www.summitracing.com/nv/searc...rder=Ascending

I saw a Mustang at the Silver States Classic Road Race that crashed at speed and the factory hood hinges failed on both sides because of the impact....these did not fail and kept the hood from going through the windshield....if had done that it may have decapitated the driver.....

As for the O2 sensor. I've used a Lambda for more years than most of the people on this site have been alive and I've always placed it in the collector after the merge. Here is a picture of one of my motors on and engine dyno with the Lambda hooked up.....I don't recommend putting the bung on top because you don't want it hitting the floor of the car....just make sure you put it no further than the 3:00 or 9:00 o'clock position as water will ruin the sensor.

When you say using the Windsor heads you aren't talking about using the stock heads are you?????? Because the stock heads will just choke the motor and you'll instantly loose 40HP....I assume you are talking about using aluminum heads and you really need to choose the heads you are going to use as some head manufactures use a different bolt pattern....choose the header to match the head.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:44 PM   #190
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I was talking about the heads you gave me a link for in page 2...
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-053040-2

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---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

I was talking about the heads you gave me a link for in page 2...
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wrl-053040-2
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:46 PM   #191
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Ok, I forgot that we talked about the World Windsor heads.
When you said "Windsor" heads I automatically think OE cast heads...sorry.
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:34 PM   #192
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And what is that link you sent me for hood pins? Red anodized?
I'm not a pimp!

I'm looking for original Shelby style.
I find different stuff, from less than 10 box, or Scott drake stuff, to AMK that are more than 80...
As for everything on my car, I'd like to put some good quality product that looks as if it has always been there.
It will be hard enough to drill holes in my hood without crying!

http://www.cjponyparts.com/hood-pin-...-1966/p/HDPK1/
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:39 PM   #193
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Ohhh, another really good question for specialists!
- How much HP and torque can handle my tiny 8" rearend?
- what would be a good choice for an auto lock system?
- what's the difference between a positrac and a limited slip?
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:46 PM   #194
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Forgot that you had the Shelby drop. Kinda surprises me that they couldn't get the camber you wanted. I'm assuming your bushings are all newish? I just have stock arms with Polly bushings in everything and was able to get to like 2.5-3* castor I forgot what i set it to but I think I could have gone all the way to 5* of caster. And for those hoodpins I have them very nice quality and hold the hood secure the red/pink is a bit girly but you can always have them bead blasted and get it removed or just paint them. But they aren't for every one you do have to cut some pretty big in the hood but can be placed in the origami bump stop locations.
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:50 PM   #195
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Actually now that I think about it, do the 66s have the eccentric washers used for alignment? I thought I read on some institutions, for a kit that replaced those washers with rectangle ones to eliminate any movement when cornering, that 66 used something else for alignment.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:03 PM   #196
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Quote:
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Actually now that I think about it, do the 66s have the eccentric washers used for alignment? I thought I read on some institutions, for a kit that replaced those washers with rectangle ones to eliminate any movement when cornering, that 66 used something else for alignment.
Unfortunately for me, eccentric system appeared in 67, my coupe has the stupid shim system...
And I mix up camber and caster (English is still not my first language) but I guess you understood what I'm talking about, I don't want my wheels to come inside the fender but I want to change the angle of the spindle system to get more resistance to maintain my steering wheel strait.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:59 PM   #197
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my 66 coupe...

Do they shim the upper control arm or lower? I know the kit I got worked for 66s I'll see if I can find the kit again
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:04 PM   #198
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Unfortunately for me, eccentric system appeared in 67, my coupe has the stupid shim system...
And I mix up camber and caster (English is still not my first language) but I guess you understood what I'm talking about, I don't want my wheels to come inside the fender but I want to change the angle of the spindle system to get more resistance to maintain my steering wheel strait.
You had it right. Caster is what creates the resistance in the steering.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:07 PM   #199
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Do they shim the upper control arm or lower?
Upper, on the bolts that have new holes with the drop
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:14 PM   #200
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I can do toe myself but for more I need help: there's only one garage that are well known for dealing with shims in San Antonio. They have really good reputation and I trust them pretty much.
I told the old mechanic who deals with shims to go as far as he could with caster, that 4 would be awesome.
When I picked the car back he came to see me and was sorry to tell me he went to 2-1/4 and couldn't do much better.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:17 PM   #201
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There's this kit, not the one I bought I can't remember where I got it from I thought it was either mustangs plus or street or track but can't seem to find it on their websites. Anyway they are essentially the same here's a link to one

http://www.drgas.com/Vario-Centric-C...-Kit_p_20.html
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:21 AM   #202
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Ohhh, another really good question for specialists!
- How much HP and torque can handle my tiny 8" rearend?
- what would be a good choice for an auto lock system?
- what's the difference between a positrac and a limited slip?
There are many different opinions on the amount of power that an 8 inch can handle. It really depends on how the rear end is set up, and how aggressive the driver is.
I believe that the housing is a little stronger on the 1967-up 8 inch, but it requires narrowing to fit into a 1966-down Mustang.
The modern day consensus seems to be, that the 8inch will hold up to a normally aspirated small block engine, driven on the street. But add some drag radials and a well prepped drag strip to the equation, and you never know... It might not hold together.
They really are stronger than the rumors about them would indicate. And they are lighter than a 9 inch rear. Personally, I would leave it in until it breaks. Unless you can find a used 9 inch that someone has already cut to fit into a first generation Mustang, there really isn't any "cheap" way to upgrade it.

A "limited-slip" or "posi-traction" are the same thing. Manufacturers have called them different names over the years but they both accomplish the same thing.
I'm not sure what all is available for the 8 inch, but I tend to favor limited-slip differentials that are disc-clutch designs, over the cone-clutch differentials.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:27 AM   #203
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But they aren't for every one you do have to cut some pretty big in the hood but can be placed in the origami bump stop locations.
I'm not a big fan of origami parts. I prefer the much stronger paper mache components.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:11 AM   #204
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I agree, the word origami is pretty well found.


So Positrac means that the clutch inside is a conical system (as a gearbox synchro ring) and a limited slip has real clutch discs as on a motorcycle?
which one is better?
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:36 AM   #205
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There is a reason Ford put a 9" rearend in the 289/271hp with 4spd...the 8" rearends will take abuse for a short time....then become a grenade.

There are a number of different 9" Ford rearends that fit in the Mustang as 8.8" rearends out of Explorers and they have disc brakes.
Kevinstang's Ford Nine Inch Differential Page +

I have put Versaille rearend in my 66GT almost 30 years ago because rear disc brake kits for the 9" Ford were non-existant.
Mustangs Plus - Tech Articles - Lincoln Versailles Rear Disc Conversion Tips

Here is a list showing the various Ford rear ends with widths;
Want to know Differential Widths? [Archive] - Classic Cougar Forums

When swapping out a 9" Ford for an 8" Ford the main thing is that the axle tubes on the 8" are 2-1/2" and the 9" are 3"....this means you need to get bigger U bolts and either redrill the bottom plate or hopefully use the one that came with the rearend. There are also a number of companies selling conversion parts to make the swap simple.........then you will never have to worry about destroying your 8" and having to call a tow truck.....been there and done that.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #206
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No. Both types of differentials could each be called either posi-traction or limited-slip. It is sort of confusing. You will have to do some research as to the different types of clutches, that the different manufacturers use.
I prefer the disc type mainly because the clutches can be replaced. I wore out the last cone type differential, that I owned, in less than one season of autocross.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:48 AM   #207
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There's this kit, not the one I bought I can't remember where I got it from I thought it was either mustangs plus or street or track but can't seem to find it on their websites. Anyway they are essentially the same here's a link to one

Vario-Centric Camber Adjuster Kit
1967 and newer Mustangs, Mavericks, Ranchero's etc. used this type of adjustment, earlier Fords used shims. I used the centric along with Global West LCA's and adjustable strut bar on my 70 Maverick drag car for many years.
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:31 PM   #208
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So, should I really find myself a 9"?
Damn... That's a pricy mod!
:-/
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:00 PM   #209
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Nobody ever said building a Hot Rod was cheap.....this is your car and your money and although I have no idea how much longer you will be here in the "Good Ole US or A", trying to replace US car parts "OCS" (Over Choppy Seas) will cost you 2/3 or even maybe 4 times more over there.
You need to make sure the chassis is as bullet proof as you can make it before dropping in a 400+HP motor......if not you will be replacing stuff as it grenades.
Either replace it now or later....it's your choice.
It doesn't have to be that expensive....although I will admit it's more expensive than it used to be....
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:34 PM   #210
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But my understanding is that an original HiPo 9" rear end would bolt on plug&play
True?
Where can I find that?
eBay?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1966-9-Inch-Fo...461?nav=SEARCH

950$, is that expensive?
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