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Old 03-22-2016, 04:42 PM   #1
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my 66 coupe...

Hi all!

New on your forum, let me introduce myself: I moved here from France for work. I've been building and racing Two strokes motorcycles for 15 years but being in the US I wanted to discover what a V8 was... So I ended up finding my 66!

Strait, no rust, super nice black standard interior done approx 10 years ago, 10 feeter paint job (silver-blue), crapy 302 from the early 70's, top loader 4 speed close ratio, 8 inch original rear end, performer 289 intake, 1406 Edelbrock carb, nice long 3Y headers (unknown brand), H pipe 2" lines 40 series.

Since I bought it for Halloween I use it as my only and everyday car.

What have I done since then?
all ball joints, upper & lower control arms...
1" Armin/Shelby drop
1" lowering coils
24mm whiteline front sway bar
monte carlo bar
4.5 mid-eye leafs
rear sway bar
KYB shocks
Borgeson 14:1 power steering conversion (in progress)
Scott Drake aluminum radiator
new water pump (cast iron)
Overhauled my 600 Edelbrock
oil, spark plugs, thermostat, oil pressure sensor
Pertronix cheap eletronic conversion
starter motor (done last night)
gear box rebuild (new forks and the rest...)
drive shaft rebuild and balanced
SSBC front disc brakes - 4 pistons calipers
rear drum rebuild
double bowl MC + power brake + proportioning valve

So what's next? wheels I guess.
I think I want TorqThrust D 15x7 with 225/60 and 215/60... but not decided yet.

AND THE ENGINE ! and that's where I need help.
not that I don't feel confortable with doing that myself but to choose parts!!!
I'm gonna stay in the US for 1 or 2 more years then I will ship my baby to France so what I want is not 1/4 mile racing, it's more rally style driving with my friends who drive mini Coopers, Alfas, MGs...

my goal is around 300rwhp, little rough idle (to sound like a real muscle car) but I don't need to much RPM, more a wide band engine.

I'm thinking of buying a roller 302 short block and rebuild it slowly while continue using the one that's in the car.
I don't want to go for a complete upgrade kit from Edelbrock or something like that : way too easy, no fun !!!
I've read good things about TrickFlow TW heads... (AFR 165 also)
I've read good things about F303 cams with 1.6 rockers...
I've read good things about Edelbrock performer RPM intake...

Actualy I'm trying to understand a little better how Dynamic Compression Ratio works, how cam works...
when I make a 2 stroke engine I start by drawing the power curve I need and then I'm able to design and build the engine that will exaclty meet my wish. 4 stroke is for me a new world but I'm sure I'll understand better soon.

So guys, thanks for reading!
waiting for your advises,
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:46 PM   #2
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Welcome aboard, and throw a coyote in there already!

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Old 03-22-2016, 08:12 PM   #3
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Let us know how the Borgeson installation goes. I am about to order mine. Welcome.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:45 AM   #4
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Welcome! If you wanted to get crazy, you could look into a stroker kit. Just remember as you increase your compression ratio, you have to go to higher octane.

As mentioned, you could always pull the driveline from a newer ford to get the modular motor if you don't care about it looking stock. This would also involve shock tower modifications or removal.

Good luck, and let us know if you have pictures!
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Old 03-23-2016, 12:07 PM   #5
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347!


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Old 03-23-2016, 03:09 PM   #6
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I'm willing to keep it old school under the hood, not even a reverse water pump or an electric fan. From the VIN this car had a 289 with a 3 manual, I don't want a complete restomod, just upgrades to be confortable to drive but keeping the oldie spirit.
Engine swap are not alowed in my country but nobody will make the difference between a 289 and a roller 302.

I've seen the stroker kits, 331 and 347 on the 302 block.
how does it change the engine's power curve? I know the extra ci will give more torque but what about the curve's general shape?
I'd like you guys to guide me towards a classic well known and reliable engine configuration that would give me confort for every day driving and fun when ever I push the throttle.



I think I like pretty much what these guys made:


what's your opinion?
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:32 PM   #7
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Budget?


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Old 03-23-2016, 06:12 PM   #8
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14:1 steering? I thought stock was 21 or 20:1, I upgraded to a 16:1 and it's pretty hard to turn. Didn't even know they made a box for 14:1. Also what are your end goals for the car ? Daily driver? Drag car ? Corner carver?
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyoung68 View Post
14:1 steering? I thought stock was 21 or 20:1, I upgraded to a 16:1 and it's pretty hard to turn. Didn't even know they made a box for 14:1. Also what are your end goals for the car ? Daily driver? Drag car ? Corner carver?
from what I found:
non GT / non power steering is 19:1 (what I actualy have)
non GT / power steering is 16:1
GT is always 16:1
14:1 is supposed to be a little better, kind of what is usualy found on rack & pinion stuff.

What's my goal : my everyday driver for the 2 coming years and alfter that the car should be in France where I'll use it as a sunday driver, fun car, meetings, maybe a few local up hill rally races for antiques.
But it must be well done and reliable: in France I will have no more parts, shipping will be expensive for any part.
Selling is not in my vacabulary: overseas I already have a full barn of toys : a Land Rover (1982), a french Citröen 2cv (1981), a Trabant (1965) from east germany, a Mini (1978), dozen of Vespa scooters (1950, 51, 52, 55, 56, 57, 62, 65, 72, 85, 92...) and a couple of moto X.

Budget for the engine?
no idea... what it takes... but staying reasonable... 2,5k? 3k?
meaning no fancy useless chrome parts, no chinese sxxx, no false saving, just a good choice of quality parts.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
from what I found:
non GT / non power steering is 19:1 (what I actualy have)
non GT / power steering is 16:1
GT is always 16:1
14:1 is supposed to be a little better, kind of what is usualy found on rack & pinion stuff.

What's my goal : my everyday driver for the 2 coming years and alfter that the car should be in France where I'll use it as a sunday driver, fun car, meetings, maybe a few local up hill rally races for antiques.
But it must be well done and reliable: in France I will have no more parts, shipping will be expensive for any part.
Selling is not in my vacabulary: overseas I already have a full barn of toys : a Land Rover (1982), a french Citröen 2cv (1981), a Trabant (1965) from east germany, a Mini (1978), dozen of Vespa scooters (1950, 51, 52, 55, 56, 57, 62, 65, 72, 85, 92...) and a couple of moto X.

Budget for the engine?
no idea... what it takes... but staying reasonable... 2,5k? 3k?
meaning no fancy useless chrome parts, no chinese sxxx, no false saving, just a good choice of quality parts.

Ohh rack and pinion, is that what you are going with? And I guess a better question is what hp/tq are you looking for. And buying a block and building it separately isn't a bad idea, especially if you want to keep driving the car while you build the engine. I've read 347s are a pretty stout engine for the size. I'm currently building a 390, had all the machine work done( polished crank, bore/home, line bore, and decked) top end kit and forged Pistons, were at 5ish k which is just about what you'd pay for a nice create engine, I know you said you wanted to figure it all out and build it yourself, but for the money I think I'd buy a creat engine. Just a thought.
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Old 03-24-2016, 12:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
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... for the money I think I'd buy a creat engine. Just a thought.

What??? Me? buying a crate engine?
that's like calling the towe truck.
and all my friends would make fun of me. I'm a killer at making and porting two strokes engines, there's just no way I buy a new engine!
I would like 250/300 rwhp reliable and fun.
My first idea is to go for a used roller 302 late 80's. I guess a good quality cast crank is enough for what I aim, why not an original one checked/machined and for the pistons I have no idea on the shape influence. Forged? Then a pair of Trick Flow or else, port them for hours as I love to do and assemble nicely, taking my time.
The thing is, it's been only a few month I try to understand what the possibilities are... I don't want to risk bad experience when I'm sure there are "classic" set ups that are well known on the seen to fit exactly my need.
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Old 03-24-2016, 01:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
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What??? Me? buying a crate engine?
that's like calling the towe truck.
and all my friends would make fun of me. I'm a killer at making and porting two strokes engines, there's just no way I buy a new engine!
I would like 250/300 rwhp reliable and fun.
My first idea is to go for a used roller 302 late 80's. I guess a good quality cast crank is enough for what I aim, why not an original one checked/machined and for the pistons I have no idea on the shape influence. Forged? Then a pair of Trick Flow or else, port them for hours as I love to do and assemble nicely, taking my time.
The thing is, it's been only a few month I try to understand what the possibilities are... I don't want to risk bad experience when I'm sure there are "classic" set ups that are well known on the seen to fit exactly my need.

Ha just a suggestion. Maybe you should look into building a 347 it's a stroked 302. You seem like you just don't want a cookie cutter engine.
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Old 03-24-2016, 09:07 PM   #13
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If you have 2 years to build, you could get pretty creative.

If you are looking for more of a corner carver, or Euro Killer, I'd definitely research the old 70's Trans Am race cars. Those cars did pretty well in that series for a few years. I doubt it isn't anything new by any means, but it could fit your skills nicely.

I'd like to see some type of high rev, built to take abuse kind of engine.


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Old 03-27-2016, 11:36 AM   #14
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What part of France are you from.....I spent a lot of time in France when doing International business in the early to late 80's. I love Paris although haven't been back for awhile.
As for wheels..............I put these on my 66 GT Hipro when I restored it in the late 70's.
A good stroker for the 302 is 331 or 347.....it's easy to buy the complete rotating assembly and pretty simple to install. If you do decide to just buy a block and start from ground zero buy a roller block.......many more roller cam profiles available and much easier to live with. My personal preference are TrickFlow 170's or 190's depending on where you go with the cam........getting 300rwhp is pretty simple with a stroker motor and you can build something on the mild side.......on my 66 I went 4whl disc brakes...it was a GT so already had the front discs....I used a Versailles rearend because back then not many people were making 9" Ford rear brake kits.....and since the 9" although a little heavier has some many more choices for gears and much more strength it's what I used. I may even think about putting an Explorer 8.8 disc brake rearend in the Mustang as they fit without much work.
One thing about the Mustang front end that needs to be changed is the LCA, the ball joint angle is totally wrong when you do the Shelby drop...this is what I used on my 70 Maverick for drag racing....Mustang Front End Individual Components 1964, 1965, 1966 and also used their strut braces...http://www.globalwest.net/64-66-must...ts.html...also used their rear springs to take care of wheel hop and lower the back of the 66 Mustang....their products are really nice...and work.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:17 PM   #15
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For the Shelby drop I bought a kit from mustangs plus that included a wedge for the upper ball joints to make everything back with the right angles. Just an FYI. Also not sure how the 66 are aligned but they make an eccentric washer delete kit, which just replaces the washer with a square one because if you wider or stickier tires up front the washer can move which happens to me a few times.
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Old 03-27-2016, 04:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
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For the Shelby drop I bought a kit from mustangs plus that included a wedge for the upper ball joints to make everything back with the right angles. Just an FYI. Also not sure how the 66 are aligned but they make an eccentric washer delete kit, which just replaces the washer with a square one because if you wider or stickier tires up front the washer can move which happens to me a few times.
The concentric washer was replaced in the late 70's and a square one came as OE.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyoung68 View Post
For the Shelby drop I bought a kit from mustangs plus that included a wedge for the upper ball joints to make everything back with the right angles. Just an FYI. Also not sure how the 66 are aligned but they make an eccentric washer delete kit, which just replaces the washer with a square one because if you wider or stickier tires up front the washer can move which happens to me a few times.
The concentric washer was replaced in the late 60's and a square one came as OE.
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Old 03-28-2016, 10:51 AM   #17
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Starting from a roller 302 short block : yes, that's what I want.

Building a stroker : the only thing I fear is that knowing myself and the way I work, this is gonna end up being a beast way too powerfull for that good old 66 !
So yes, the idea seduces me pretty much...
But I've gotta find the way to know what kind of power curve shape I'm gonna end up with.
For a strocker, what's best? 331 or 347?


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Old 03-28-2016, 09:09 PM   #18
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The reason I mentioned a stroker rotating assembly is that you can get good rods, pistons/pins/rings, bearings and crank cheaper than buying them separately.
As I mentioned in another thread...HP numbers mean nothing....it's what is under the dyno curve that counts...Torque is what makes HP.......not the other way around.
With that said a good 331 or 347 will make 350HP/400HP at the crankshaft with little effort other than picking the right parts and a stroker doesn't have to spin to 7000 RPM to make power...the power comes much lower in the RPM band. Remember that the cam is the brain and the rest of the motor follows along.......if you have picked the right parts they will work together.
Starting out with a short block is ok, it's just that you will throw away all of the internal parts.......crank, rods, pistons, cam, bearings etc., etc.
Buy a 302 roller bare block from Summitt Racing and start from their...it should already be align honed and bore the cylinders to 4.030".........by a good 3.25" stroker crank, H-beam or I-beam rods, good pistons like Diamond, Ross or ???? As for the cam, the E303 is extremely old and there are much better cams from Comp, Crower or ???? One thing to keep in mind during selecting the heads is to look at something that will flow more than 300cfm @0.550 lift on the intake side and at least 225cfm @ 0.500 lift on the exhaust. I'd also be looking at probably 2.06 or 2.08 intake valves and 1.6 exhaust valves....the chamber would probably be no more than 64cc and maybe as small as 58cc. The cam should be a split duration around 274/280 and I'd go hydraulic rollers with 1.6 Comp SS rockers. You're going to have to measure the push rod length and I'd try Comp or Trend....my two favorites. This curve should be really good from 1800 rpm to 6500rpm and still pull down some pretty good gas mileage if you have the right gears.............not overdone....just enough.
The rest of motor has any number of different ways to go...............it you want something that is going to last and be spot on reliable buy the best possible parts you can.........I've built a few of the SBF strokers in my day and my last one was a 408 cubic inch stroker 351w that ran a single 850cfm carb and had peak 650HP at the crank @6800rpm and and 544lbft of torque @5700rpm....my Maverick ran 9.8's in the 1/4 mile and weighed 3200lbs with me in the seat.
Cubic inches mean cubic torque............which is what makes HP.
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Old 03-28-2016, 09:22 PM   #19
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Just play this a time or two......400hp at the crank which should get you to 350 at the rear wheels..........now you just have to make sure the rest of the Coupe can handle it!!!

Building an EFI Ford 331 | HorsePower | PowerBlockTV - Full Episodes
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:43 PM   #20
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OK, so maybe I could play it mild going for a 331... stroker but not crazy too much hp.

I've seen stroker kits from Scat for about 1000$ (9000 series, not the 4340)
with cast light weight crank, I beam rods and forged pistons.
I believe that with no juice, no super charger and no turbo it is enought isn't it?

what's the main difference between the piston shapes?
what should I chose for my use? flat top? Dished? domed?
does it depend on my heads choice?
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Old 03-29-2016, 03:25 PM   #21
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OK, so maybe I could play it mild going for a 331... stroker but not crazy too much hp.

I've seen stroker kits from Scat for about 1000$ (9000 series, not the 4340)
with cast light weight crank, I beam rods and forged pistons.
I believe that with no juice, no super charger and no turbo it is enought isn't it?

what's the main difference between the piston shapes?
what should I chose for my use? flat top? Dished? domed?
does it depend on my heads choice?
Just make sure you get a kit that has been balanced and comes with good bearings and rings, like Clevitte 77 or King, and good Moly rings...You can also find kits that include the front harmonic balancer and flex plate that are already balanced with the rotating assembly.........my guess is around $1500 as the $1000 you gave was for a bare bones kit.
So, without taking up a lot of space here....as I mentioned earlier, the cam is the brain....so depending on what you pick that will give you a good indication of what compression you want to run and that will lead you to the heads and chamber size which will lead you back to the piston type...my guess would be flat top or slightly dished....again depending on the heads and chamber size.
Domed heads are mostly for racing and higher compression pistons...flat tops can get up to high 10's with small chamber heads to high 9's with larger chamber heads...dished are used a lot on lower compression engines and boosted motors to reduce the compression....also not sure what Octane gas you want to run....over in Europe the gas is different than here.........and a little more costly per gallon/liter.
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Old 03-29-2016, 05:04 PM   #22
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where can I look for these kits? what site?

for french gas at the pump, 2 choices:
regular is called RON 95/MON 85
and the higher octane is called RON 97/MON 87

I don't think I need a flex plate for my application: I have a 4 speed top loader close ratio MANUAL transmission.

What kind of cam would you advise for my use?
For the heads, my latest guess would be Trick Flows, but I have to calculate which ones are good for me.

understood for piston shape, thanks! so no domed pistons for me.

What do you mean by "make sure the rest of the coupe can handle it" ?
will I need a 9 inch rear end?
big sway bars, traction bars, export braces, montecarlo bar... what else would I need? welded subframe connectors?
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:46 AM   #23
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The more I think about this build the more I think you should go with a 347 stroker motor...reason is that it will make as much power as the 331 but at a lower RPM range.........which equates to more reliability and a motor that will need a less aggressive cam and possibly smaller heads. Just my thoughts.
For the kits either Summit Racing or JEGS are good and their prices are hard to beat.
I forgot you had a 4spd.....putting a 5spd/6spd in would certainly be be better if you ever hit the Autoban.....you will need a flywheel and clutch setup and at least the flywheel will need to be balanced with the motor.
As I said, an hydraulic roller would be the way to go and be the most reliable.
My suggestion would be to call TrickFlow...tell them what HP/TQ you are looking for and have them steer you to one of their head/cam kits and also an intake manifold...are you going to use a carburetor of fuel injection, this makes a big difference in what you will need in the fuel system.
What I meant is that the 66 has no frame and is about as good as a wet noodle.
You will want an Xport bar along with monty bar as the firewall is extremely thin sheetmetal.........if you have front disc brakes that's good, if not you will need them along with putting disc brakes on the rear....the stock rearend may not stand up to the HP/TQ you will giving it. Factory HiPro...289ci/271hp came with a 9" rearend and although they are heavy they are also pretty much bullet proof. As I mentioned you can take a newer 8.8 Ford disc brake rearend out of the wreck Explorer and with a little work it will fit. Yes, you will need frame connectors and reinforce the front spring hanger locations and either buy new springs or install traction bars like the 66 Shelby had. Also don't forget about the weak front lower A arms and strut rod...I put links to Global West and I have used their products......a little expensive but very worth the money.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150110/overview/
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:01 PM   #24
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traction bars are in my living room!

What scares me is to end up with too much HP. for the price, I have no real budget set up but I want to keep in mind the value of the car (potential value because I have no intention to sell)... So I don't want to end up spending 8000$ on the engine.
When I see that I find fully rebuilt engines for less than 3000 for me there's a problem: it has to be cheap chinese parts!

So, how much is this engine gonna cost me?
1g for crank & pistons
2g for heads & rockers
1g for the rest of the parts... cam, timing kit, oil pump...
What about the short block? shall I find a used one for like 300 and take it to the machine shop for another 5 or 600 or shall I buy a short block from summit "ready to go" ?
So we're already over 5g with no intake, no carb, no ignition, no 9" rear end... I started this idea of building an engine for 3g!!!
That might end up with GT40 heads self ported
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:41 PM   #25
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Ok, I guess I lost sight of the $3000 budget.
Sure, you can buy a junk yard motor and take it to a good machinist....if you know a good one....and you are still going to spend $700 to have the block align honed and bored, hot tanked, and mag'd.
So, what have you got on your current 289 that can be swapped to a new "long block". What intake and carb do you have, what headers do you have, what ignition do you have....You can build a motor for $3000....although you may have to settle for less expensive parts....I think the $700 for the Summit block is a good starting point as it has been align honed and bored....$1000 for the crank, pistons, rods, bearings and rings and you are left with $1300 to buy the cam kit and heads. You could always just buy a hydraulic cam and not go with a roller cam....and settle for 300 rwhp.........
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Old 03-30-2016, 04:52 PM   #26
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Here are some ProStar aluminum heads that are cast in China and the machining is done in the US.

Ford 289 302 351W 408 427 5 0 Mustang Aluminum Heads GT40 EFI Carburetor | eBay

SCAT rotating assembly...these are cast in China also and machined in the USA

Scat SB Ford 331CI Stroker Kit Flat Top Piston | eBay

Or, just get a low mileage junk yard motor and this;

Edelbrock 2027 Ford Top End Kit E Street Performer SBF 302 Aluminum Heads Intake | eBay
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:35 PM   #27
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if 3g is not enought I can go higher with no problem, it's just a matter of "is the spend worth it?" if yes... lets go!


what I have?
- an "Edelbrock 289" intake with an aditional little raise. I don't know if that will fit my project. Would a Performer or a Performer RPM would match better the heads?
- an Edelbrock 1406 600cfm that I've overhauled, it's in perfect condition. Will it be too small for my 300rwhp project?
- 3Y long headers unknown brand, maybe some kind of Scott Drake cheap series... they might be too small. As well, my 2" H pipe will be too small, I will have to go for a 2.5" pipe.
- my ignition was using good old points, I've installed a simple cheap pickup from Pertronix that works great (from all I've spent on this car, this was my best buy), a new distributor cap and 8mm silicon plug wires. Can I continue using this ignition or will I need an upgrade?

What I keep:
plug wires, water pump, 2R aluminum radiator, 6 blade fan, pulleys, alterator, starter motor, oil sensor, water sensor, K&N big air filter.
(all of these are new)

The rest of my actual engine is an old 302 bone stock (early 70's). looks in pretty good condition from under the car with no oil pan...
I'll try to sell (as well as the headers) when I'm done but it actualy takes me to work & grocery every day.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:28 PM   #28
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Machine work alone for my 390 was 1000 for just the machining work. No bearings or freeze plugs or anything. If you have to buy a block and then have it machined it might be cheaper to buy a bare block to start with. I'd call around first to find a place to do the work and check out prices for the work.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:26 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uj_SPRT View Post
if 3g is not enought I can go higher with no problem, it's just a matter of "is the spend worth it?" if yes... lets go!


what I have?
- an "Edelbrock 289" intake with an aditional little raise. I don't know if that will fit my project. Would a Performer or a Performer RPM would match better the heads?
- an Edelbrock 1406 600cfm that I've overhauled, it's in perfect condition. Will it be too small for my 300rwhp project?
- 3Y long headers unknown brand, maybe some kind of Scott Drake cheap series... they might be too small. As well, my 2" H pipe will be too small, I will have to go for a 2.5" pipe.
- my ignition was using good old points, I've installed a simple cheap pickup from Pertronix that works great (from all I've spent on this car, this was my best buy), a new distributor cap and 8mm silicon plug wires. Can I continue using this ignition or will I need an upgrade?

What I keep:
plug wires, water pump, 2R aluminum radiator, 6 blade fan, pulleys, alterator, starter motor, oil sensor, water sensor, K&N big air filter.
(all of these are new)

The rest of my actual engine is an old 302 bone stock (early 70's). looks in pretty good condition from under the car with no oil pan...
I'll try to sell (as well as the headers) when I'm done but it actualy takes me to work & grocery every day.
Ok, rather than go back and forth on this let me think about the motor build until early next week as I'm in the process of building a V8 Flathead motor and will be burning the midnight oil for the next 4 or 5 days.
As I mentioned above, there are cheaper alternatives for parts and unfortunately most of the parts are manufactured overseas...or at least cast overseas....and shipped back to USofA for final machine work....it only takes 35% work content here in the good ole US to be able to put a made in the USA sticker on the product. SCAT, Eagle and others have been doing this for more than 2 decades.
So, there are two ways to tackle this and I will outline both ways and put some prices together for you....as long as you can wait a few days. I know you mentioned you had some new parts and wanted to use them...I agree on some and not on others and I'll explain those also.
Hope that is Ok with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyoung68 View Post
Machine work alone for my 390 was 1000 for just the machining work. No bearings or freeze plugs or anything. If you have to buy a block and then have it machined it might be cheaper to buy a bare block to start with. I'd call around first to find a place to do the work and check out prices for the work.
Ty, I'm not trying to be an ole fart....well I am.....and please don't take this personal because I have no idea what machine work you had done on the 390.....Machine shops and the quality of their work are not always reflected in the amount they charge. I have no idea of a good shop in Texas and I'm sure there are people on this forum that can answer that.
Two important things to look for in an engine machine shop is 1., that they have worked on a lot of the brand engine you are bring them and know that engine like the palm of their hand........2., they will give you references that you can talk to.
When I did the refresh on my 408 I had to use another block as mine would've had to go 0.045 and I just didn't want to go that far. I had the work done in San Jose, CA by Bob Gromm who has been featured in many magazines for his head work and machine work on both Ford and Chevy street/race/roundy round motors.
He did the following;
Line Bored and installed 4blt mains on 2/3/4 mains on OE block - $450
Bored and honed 8 cylinders for my Probe pistons to my specs - $250
Polished and Nitrided the Eagle Forged Crank and set clearances
to my specs - $350
Did priority oiling for the block, tapped into the front galley and ran a line to the timing chain/distributor area, ported the oil pump and block galley and ground the valley and set the oil pump pickup to my spec - $250

The total bill came to $1300....and that included hot tanking/checking for cracks and oil and freeze plugs...granted this was 3 years ago...after I carefully assembled the motor it made 642 HP at 6800 and 544 ftlbs at 5700....then went 9.801 in the 1/4 in my 3200lb Maverick. The point I'm trying to prove is that this motor had all used parts, crank, rods, pistons, heads, intake, carb, ignition, headers and cam profile....and the motor had been run for almost 9 seasons of racing before I tore it down for a refresh...if you buy the best parts you can afford...have someone who knows what they are doing blueprint the block and set up proper clearances you will have a motor that you last a long time....assuming you maintain the motor....and this motor saw more stress in its life than dozens normal motors.
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Old 03-30-2016, 10:48 PM   #30
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None taken , i was just thinking ifyour going for an all new everything and have no need anything but a block it might be cost effective to just buy a bare block from someone. Perhaps a strong block or aluminum. Since there's no need for all the stock parts. For 1000, I guess I forgot about resizing my rods, but i got my block decked, bored/Honed and line Honed. Only, No freeze plugs and no oil galley plugs. Just machine work so 840$ for all that work. But that's why I suggested that he call a shop in is area for prices for work. Too see if it's worth getting a block vs a jy motor.
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:06 PM   #31
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Aftermarket blocks like World Products and Dart are pretty expensive, running from about $1800 to $2700 for cast and just shy of $4000 for aluminum. There are Ford Racing blocks and they aren't much cheaper....my preference in building a street motor is always a seasoned block....just my preference.

This block from Summit is a pretty good starting point as it has been line honed, decked, bored and mag'd for cracks...plus you get the spec sheet showing what they have done....and it's a good price.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-150110/overview/

Choosing a machine shop is almost like choosing a wife....something you don't want to have to do over....finding good ones that know anything about SBF motors is even harder.
The other point I was trying to make is that there are very few companies here in the US making their own cranks/rods/cams. Cunningham, Bryant, Crower, Ross and others are USofA made from womb to tomb.....unfortunately those companies products are also expensive....But then again the MT82 is made in China.........???????
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:58 PM   #32
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Geeze never looked at aluminum blocks or a "high performance" block didn't think they would be that much. But either way that one from summit would be my choice, especially with what you said about pick a shop is like picking a wife, seems like there is a bunch of shady shops out there, I drove two hours for my shop sense they were the best. Plus the fact that you wouldn't have to disassemble the block transport it to the shop and all the other stuff. Just no head ache to deal with.
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:55 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post

Choosing a machine shop is almost like choosing a wife....something you don't want to have to do over....
But you don't get to date a machine shop for a while before fully committing.

Enjoying this thread by the way, good information!
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:38 AM   #34
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But you don't get to date a machine shop for a while before fully committing.

Enjoying this thread by the way, good information!
Unfortunately....that's very true.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:43 AM   #35
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little question : is an H pipe of 2.5" what I need?
long or short headers?
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