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Old 01-09-2007, 02:08 PM   #1
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And the War Continues

Between the Z06 and the Viper

Detroit Auto Show: 2008 Dodge Viper -- with extra bite! - Autoblog

This is going to be interesting. Guess Dodge got a bit pissy when that tiny 7.0L in the Z06 showed it up.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:09 PM   #2
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Re: And the War Continues

This is exactly why competition and rivalries are so great.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:11 PM   #3
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Re: And the War Continues

wow, way to go mr. one upper
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:26 PM   #4
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Re: And the War Continues

Ford needs to dust off the 427 SOHC and drop'em in a stang with a nice S/C although they got some nice numbers with carbs
Factory ratings 615 hp @ 7000 rpm with a single 4-barrel, and 657 hp @ 7500 with dual carburetors.
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Old 01-09-2007, 02:45 PM   #5
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Re: And the War Continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbstang View Post
Ford needs to dust off the 427 SOHC and drop'em in a stang with a nice S/C although they got some nice numbers with carbs
Factory ratings 615 hp @ 7000 rpm with a single 4-barrel, and 657 hp @ 7500 with dual carburetors.
Well these cars are more made to go around a track. Ford needs something besides the Mustang to do that with. You can stuff a ton of power into something, but that doesn't mean you're going to have success racing, and you'd need to do a ton of work to a Mustang Chassis to make it keep up with a ~3100lb 500hp Corvette
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Old 01-09-2007, 05:45 PM   #6
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Re: And the War Continues

/\ Couldn't have said it better myself. I just wish Ford would have stuck with the 351W or 385 Series blocks. Could imagine what Ford could have done with a 390 stroker engine with present technology. I bet it would be a lot closer to Chevy hp wise than it is now. Oh well, a pushrod fan can dream
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Old 01-09-2007, 05:59 PM   #7
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Re: And the War Continues

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Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
Well these cars are more made to go around a track. Ford needs something besides the Mustang to do that with. You can stuff a ton of power into something, but that doesn't mean you're going to have success racing, and you'd need to do a ton of work to a Mustang Chassis to make it keep up with a ~3100lb 500hp Corvette
You're probably right. Ford has had absolutely no success racing the 05+ Mustang.

Ford Mustangs Dominate the Grand Am Cup Series



I do see what you are saying though. If Ford wants to compete in the same classes that the Corvette does, they would need a different chassis. That's what happens when you compare a two-seater sports car to a four-seater pony car.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:15 PM   #8
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Re: And the War Continues

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You're probably right. Ford has had absolutely no success racing the 05+ Mustang.

Ford Mustangs Dominate the Grand Am Cup Series

Well if you compare Kias to other cars worse than them (if there are) they can win championships as well
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The GS (Grand Sport) class is made up of several factory sports and muscle cars from around the world with minimal performance modifications but full safety systems. Minimum weights range from 2,730 lbs for the Acura NSX to 3,250 lbs for the big Cadillac CTS-V.

Engines are tuned to produce between 350 and 405 horsepower depending on the car, and the competition is further equalized by a variety of fuel tank capacities that range from 16.5 gallons for the Porsche 966 to 20 gallons for the Acura NSX, Audi S4, Cadillac CTS-V, Lotus Esprit, Chevy Camaro, Pontiac Firebird and all Ford Mustangs. Top speed for most GS cars is 160 mph.
WOW, I'm impressed they can beat 4 year old F-Bodies, Cadillacs, and other cars.

Now if they Brought back the Trans Am Series to like it was back in the 70's I'd love to watch the Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger all race around with some nice simple modifications.


I think they need to make something much like the Ford GT again, but have it priced in the grasp of humans, to compete with the Corvette and Viper.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:18 PM   #9
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Re: And the War Continues

It's not comparing cars worse than them, it's comparing cars in the same class. Do you really think a Mustang and a Corvette are in the same class?

I do agree that it would be nice if they brought back the Trans Am series. But it's not the Mustang's fault that it has no competition. It's competition died. Now that's it's coming back though, it would be nice to see what they are really made of.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:46 PM   #10
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Re: And the War Continues

Those cars aren't near stock. A stock mustang is not going to compete with a Stock NSX (even though they are overrated).

The Corvette and Viper I am talking about are production made vehicles, and ford wouldn't make a mustang like that for production.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:57 PM   #11
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Re: And the War Continues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
Those cars aren't near stock. A stock mustang is not going to compete with a Stock NSX (even though they are overrated).

The Corvette and Viper I am talking about are production made vehicles, and ford wouldn't make a mustang like that for production.
Exactly. Because a Mustang isn't a sports car.

You can have "success racing" with a Mustang. But it's not going to be against two-seater sports cars that cost between $75-100k.

I guess I should probably quote myself again here so you can try to understand what I've been saying from the beginning...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbunt302
I do see what you are saying though. If Ford wants to compete in the same classes that the Corvette does, they would need a different chassis. That's what happens when you compare a two-seater sports car to a four-seater pony car.
The fact is, the Mustang performs very well with cars in its class.
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:16 PM   #12
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Re: And the War Continues

I do wish ford would produce a modestly high volume simply evil mustang that handles extremly well, they CAN DO IT just a matter of partnering with someone like maximummotorsports and putting some real power down without to much weight.
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Old 01-09-2007, 08:44 PM   #13
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Re: And the War Continues

my mom might be getting a Z06 in may, i'll drive it around, then drive my friends viper, and i'll let u know what i think
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Old 01-09-2007, 09:47 PM   #14
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Re: And the War Continues

^ well aren't we lucky
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:49 PM   #15
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Re: And the War Continues

Quote:
8.4L V10 that now dishes out 600 horsepower and 560 lbs of torque.
:drool:
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Old 01-09-2007, 10:51 PM   #16
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Re: And the War Continues

wow.. nice. i love vipers... except for the exhaust. it sounds like ****.
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:35 AM   #17
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Re: And the War Continues

One of the fun things about Mustangs is modifing them to compete with or better higher priced cars. Throw a few thousand at a Mustangs suspension and it will handly very very well.

BTW I bet I could beat a stock NSX in most forms of racing(And I'm not just trying to brag I'm being very serious, but I'm not trying to say my car is a better handling car than a NSX) as could a GT500, Roush Stage 3, and the supercharged versions of Saleen's, and Steeda's mustangs.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:05 AM   #18
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Re: And the War Continues

OK maybe wishing for the 427SOHC was to much .But Ford could built a motor something along these lines ,Hell there a guy on another site that made carbon fiber doors,trunk,hood and roof and has a 2600 lb Cobra .Ford could do the same but they won't
1967 Gurney-Weslake 305 "Actually, we began our inquest with extensive rework of the existing 271 hp heads.", said Dan Gurney holding back a smile.
"At the peak of our testing with the 271 hp cast iron heads on a 325-inch block, we were pulling as much as 448 hp on gasoline. It was about this time we figured a few improvements along the lines of a new head design might give us even more power, so we got after it."
The new heads, cast of aluminum alloy by Alcoa, did evolve. The intake ports were a short shot, leading directly from the carburetors and aimed straight at the combustion chamber. No intake manifold is used. The Webers bolt directly to the cylinder heads. Steel valve seats were used on the 2-1/32" intakes, and bronze on the 1-5/8" exhaust. Normal 45 degree seat angles were used. Rockers are shaft mounted with removable stands. Three different heads designs were developed, including one to fit under the stock hood of a Mustang.
Not much remains of the stock 289 HP bottom end. The crankshafts were custom made by Dearborn Crankshaft Company. Bearing inserts were taken from the Ford DOHC Indy engine. Carrillo rods, super finished and shot peened were fitted. Stock 289 oil pans were chopped up and baffled for each particular type of track. Probably the most interesting modification was the addition of a main cap girdle. Even so, main bearing saddle cracks were common. Stock 289 head gaskets were found to work reliably.
Camshaft development was handed off to Jack Engle, ultimately settling on a relatively short-lift long-duration camshaft. Rev kit springs were placed between the lifter valley and the underside of the cylinder heads to extend the RPM range of the valve train.
Both 289 and 305 CID versions were dyno tested. On gasoline, the 289s developed as much as 506 hp @ 7800 rpm. The 305s pushed 520 hp.

ENGINES FLATHEAD FE SMALL BLOCK BIG BLOCK CLEVELAND
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Old 01-10-2007, 04:00 PM   #19
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Re: And the War Continues

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Steel valve seats were used on the 2-1/32" intakes, and bronze on the 1-5/8" exhaust.
That makes them 2.03 intake and 1.625. That's pretty dam big for a 289. ESPECIALLY 40 YEARS AGO
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