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Old 12-15-2011, 10:39 PM   #1
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Down shifting

Is it bad for your engine? Or clutch? Cuz I do it a lot just cuz I like how it makes my exhaust sound and also just to save some brakes lol. But my friend just told me I could really screw up my engine and burn my clutch since its not fully disengaged when down shifting. True?
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:08 PM   #2
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I wouldn't say its bad for your engine unless your dropping to first at like 30 causing high revs. It causes more stress on your trans and clutch. Its not really damaging anything just would cause premature failure if you constantly do it all the time. Oh and Yeh it does sound great btw!
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:09 PM   #3
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You should try double clutching to down shift. When down shifting, push on the clutch, drop it into neutral first and let off the clutch, rev match, push on the clutch again drop it down a gear and let off the clutch while revmatching again. Not only is it fun to do, but saves the syncros. Lol
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03GT88
I wouldn't say its bad for your engine unless your dropping to first at like 30 causing high revs. It causes more stress on your trans and clutch. Its not really damaging anything just would cause premature failure if you constantly do it all the time. Oh and Yeh it does sound great btw!
No I Dnt let the revs get past 3500 lol and yeah sounds badass

---------- Post added at 12:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by eouellette18
You should try double clutching to down shift. When down shifting, push on the clutch, drop it into neutral first and let off the clutch, rev match, push on the clutch again drop it down a gear and let off the clutch while revmatching again. Not only is it fun to do, but saves the syncros. Lol
Hmm I'm getting the gist of what your telling me but I'm not too sure on what u mean by rev matching while in neutral? In gear I'm guessing u mean to match it with my speed right?
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:33 PM   #5
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It's bad for the transmission. The tranny gears wear on the drive side. When you downshift you are on the coast side and you can break teeth. I broke 3rd in a T5 downshifting into it at less then 40mph. Downshifting will wear down the coast side of the gears making them weak.
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Old 12-15-2011, 11:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsp0t
It's bad for the transmission. The tranny gears wear on the drive side. When you downshift you are on the coast side and you can break teeth. I broke 3rd in a T5 downshifting into it at less then 40mph. Downshifting will wear down the coast side of the gears making them weak.
Damn thanks for letting me know about that man thanks. Would it make a difference doing it on low gears (let's say 3rd to 2nd) ?
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:14 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by vinnygt

Damn thanks for letting me know about that man thanks. Would it make a difference doing it on low gears (let's say 3rd to 2nd) ?
Not sure, I'm not saying it will break tomorrow just be careful. If you downshift to accelerate what I said wont apply you'll be on the drive side. I got that 95GT w/ 99k miles and it broke with 125k. After 25k of me beating it, it broke on a very easy downshift. 3rd-2nd everything is wound up(revs) pretty tight.

There are people who will tell you it makes no difference whether you downshift or not.. It's the same theory as drive and coast in the rear end too.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:04 AM   #8
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As long as your using the clutch and not just ramming it I'm it's fine...that's how your supposed to drive a manual. Drop it down all you want as long as you don't rev over 6500.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:24 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by FordTech
As long as your using the clutch and not just ramming it I'm it's fine...that's how your supposed to drive a manual. Drop it down all you want as long as you don't rev over 6500.
First, if your turning 6500 Rpm on a stock 5.0L at anytime your in for trouble anyways. Secondly, drive yours how you want to. But if you are constantly downshifting hard on your T5 and think 'thats how your supposed to drive a manual' that's a foolish way of thinking and just not true.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:33 AM   #10
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There are proper techniques for downshifting and engine braking, but I wouldn't suggest doing it too much on the t5. Also I wouldn't even think about going from 4th or 5th and downshifting to 2nd at high speeds.

If you must do it, go down one gear at a time and rev match ( not at 6500). That should put the least amount of strain on the tranny.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93slowstang
There are proper techniques for downshifting and engine braking, but I wouldn't suggest doing it too much on the t5. Also I wouldn't even think about going from 4th or 5th and downshifting to 2nd at high speeds.

If you must do it, go down one gear at a time and rev match ( not at 6500). That should put the least amount of strain on the tranny.
+10 could not agree more
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:37 AM   #12
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Random question, what about heel-toe shifting from 4th gear to second? I mean, you're rev matching so it shouldn't be too bad if you do it correctly.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:41 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra
Random question, what about heel-toe shifting from 4th gear to second? I mean, you're rev matching so it shouldn't be too bad if you do it correctly.
It's still high rpms in 2nd. I'm guilty of it occasionally but that's not good on the tranny or motor. The motor has a lot more resistance against it rev matching from 4-2 than it does from 3-2.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra
Random question, what about heel-toe shifting from 4th gear to second? I mean, you're rev matching so it shouldn't be too bad if you do it correctly.
Again, not something I'd make a habit of for several reasons. Skipping gears going down takes you from light normal stress to full stress very quickly. Depending on your surroundings and HP level could either get you in trouble or get you hurt lol
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93slowstang

It's still high rpms in 2nd. I'm guilty of it occasionally but that's not good on the tranny or motor. The motor has a lot more resistance against it rev matching from 4-2 than it does from 3-2.
Well, I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever done it? Normally you're going to be on the brakes enough so that you'll be going at about the same engine speed when the shift is complete... Oh, and I know about surroundings I'm safe when I'm doing it... Kinda.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:49 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Las0mbra

Well, I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever done it? Normally you're going to be flooring on the brakes enough so that you'll be going at about the same engine speed when the shift is complete... Oh, and I know about surroundings I'm safe when I'm doing it... Kinda.
I was speaking in terms of downshifting to accelerate in part, so ya if your pounding the brakes and the revs are down by the time the clutch is out then it's not sooo bad.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra

Well, I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever done it? Normally you're going to be on the brakes enough so that you'll be going at about the same engine speed when the shift is complete... Oh, and I know about surroundings I'm safe when I'm doing it... Kinda.
Yes, like I've said "I'm guilty of it on occasion". Ive owned a manual car since i was 16 Second is generally my go to gear when downshifting when I do it but think about how fast you are going when you do it most of the time. Even on the brakes most of the time you are still going faster than you think.
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra

Well, I'm not trying to be rude, but have you ever done it? Normally you're going to be on the brakes enough so that you'll be going at about the same engine speed when the shift is complete... Oh, and I know about surroundings I'm safe when I'm doing it... Kinda.
One big problem with skipping a gear is that your tranny still has to go through all the shift gates and there's always that chance that somehow you get stuck in two gears at once.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:49 AM   #19
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So what I'm kinda guessing is just don't be rough with the gears? Rev match until it feels safe? An keep the Rpms as low as possible of course. Can anyone explain that double clutch thing to me please? It's had me curious lol.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:15 AM   #20
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What I mean by rev matching in neutral is that when you drop it into neutral, rev it up to about the same revs you had before dropping it into neutral (give or take... You can pretty much rev it around 3000-4000 rpms and it should be fine depending on the speed you're going). You can YouTube it too. That's where I learned how. I'm still getting used to it, but I can tell that it is a lot smoother downshifting and safer for the transmission... Hope this helped.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eouellette18
What I mean by rev matching in neutral is that when you drop it into neutral, rev it up to about the same revs you had before dropping it into neutral (give or take... You can pretty much rev it around 3000-4000 rpms and it should be fine depending on the speed you're going). You can YouTube it too. That's where I learned how. I'm still getting used to it, but I can tell that it is a lot smoother downshifting and safer for the transmission... Hope this helped.
Ohh I see. But I still have to hit the clutch to shift in gear right? Cuz my dads tried to teach me to shift with no clutch (he makes it look easy) but I just can't get the hang of that. Lol.
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:45 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by vinnygt

Ohh I see. But I still have to hit the clutch to shift in gear right? Cuz my dads tried to teach me to shift with no clutch (he makes it look easy) but I just can't get the hang of that. Lol.
I would advise you to use the clutch with every shift. a T5 can handle a few up shifts from time to time with no clutch but not downshifts. You're playing with fire as the saying goes! But if your dads willing to help replace the tranny when it breaks???
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Old 12-16-2011, 10:58 AM   #23
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Lol he tried teaching me to do that in his friends old school Nissan maxima or Altima I don't remember. I've only tried it a few times on my old 96 but hearing hat grinding noise scared the sh@t out of me lol. I keep hearing bad things about this kind of tranny and from remembering how hard it was to put my old car in reverse and hearing my friends 99 grind all the time I can see why. What's the best kind of tranny upgrade? Like for the car I have now. 98 cobra
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:45 PM   #24
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I love this thread... if your really good at matching revs to speed in a shift, do it. I blip all my downshifts (but never, ever, ever, do I downshift to first unless I'm carawling.) Ill go 5-3 4-2 hell even 5-2 on occasion. If you hit your revs right the shifter slips perfectly into gear and once the clutch is engaged. Bang ur of. But I heel toe all the time and blip my downshifts all day. Did on my 96 for years and never once had an issue. I did a lot of track driving and a good rev match goes a long ways. Get good at normal blip downshifting before you get too crazy skipping gears. Make sure your not over-blipping bc you would be suprised how easy that *** end can step out and how bad that can get for the engine. You can get good enough so you can't even feel the change.

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra
Random question, what about heel-toe shifting from 4th gear to second? I mean, you're rev matching so it shouldn't be too bad if you do it correctly.
Heel toe is a race application... you would be better.off heel toe 4-3 then 3-2. Only time I 4-2 is if I'm cruising below 80kph and I need instant max power. Heel toe is also only for coener entry and when on the brakes addes to engine braking that hard you could accidently lock up and push wide. So I've always been told, and always have, only heel toed one gear at a time.

---------- Post added at 11:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDF

One big problem with skipping a gear is that your tranny still has to go through all the shift gates and there's always that chance that somehow you get stuck in two gears at once.
Wait what?!?!?! K That's... just no. It wont catch 2. It may catch the wrong gear tho...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnygt
So what I'm kinda guessing is just don't be rough with the gears? Rev match until it feels safe? An keep the Rpms as low as possible of course. Can anyone explain that double clutch thing to me please? It's had me curious lol.
Youtube it... visual aid required.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:49 PM   #25
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I get that heeltoe is a race application... I go from 4-2 all the time when I'm doing fast driving....
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Las0mbra
I get that heeltoe is a race application... I go from 4-2 all the time when I'm doing fast driving....
Yeah but heel toe is really only intendes for "holy **** I need engine braking to make this corner" driving. You can decelerate faster by going through third but u gotta be good.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:57 PM   #27
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Yeah but heel toe is really only intendes for "holy **** I need engine braking to make this corner" driving. You can decelerate faster by going through third but u gotta be good.
Well, I'm taking about going into a corner at 60ish and leaving at 20.. You need to shift before you're out of the corner and the only way to do that is heel-toe
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:09 PM   #28
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Wait what?!?!?! K That's... just no. It wont catch 2. It may catch the wrong gear tho...
Have you rebuilt a manual tranny before? It's just like when you're playing the piano and you accidentally hit 2 notes at once.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:32 PM   #29
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Yeah I need to YouTube this. I have no clue what blip is. Lol thanks guys u helped a lot.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by vinnygt
Yeah I need to YouTube this. I have no clue what blip is. Lol thanks guys u helped a lot.
It's when you tap the gas real quick to rev the engine. When you double clutch it you are shifting from let's say 3rd into neutral, letting the clutch out while in neutral and revving the engine to the correct rpms for second gear and then putting the clutch back in and putting it into second gear. Double clutching was used before someone invented syncros.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:42 PM   #31
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Oh I see! Do u have to do that when up shifting too?

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

If u want to double clutch
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:11 PM   #32
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You won't need to since you're going from a higher REPM to a lower RPM. Syncros eliminate the need to double clutch at all but it's fun to do.
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Old 12-16-2011, 04:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by vinnygt
Oh I see! Do u have to do that when up shifting too?

---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:42 PM ----------

If u want to double clutch
No. Just shift... honestly if your a good blip shifter there is no need to double.clutch and it is faster. I don't like having the car off power for that extra second...
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:07 PM   #34
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When I I'm coming to a stop, I'm always downshifting it down every single gear, not high RPMs but I let it sound pretty good, prolly 3,500 down, and I usually never use my brakes till I'm slowing to a stop in first, I've done it to every single stang I've owned,(40+) never broke one yet, but I'm very smooth and always rev match
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:40 AM   #35
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When I I'm coming to a stop, I'm always downshifting it down every single gear, not high RPMs but I let it sound pretty good, prolly 3,500 down, and I usually never use my brakes till I'm slowing to a stop in first, I've done it to every single stang I've owned,(40+) never broke one yet, but I'm very smooth and always rev match
I don't downshift to first unless I'm in auto x. Its really hard on the clutch... but if you hit it smooth then ur prob ok...
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