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Old 09-03-2014, 02:59 PM   #736
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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
Chrysler is actually doing quite well with sales right now.
Ford's sales are flat...
Maybe now there owned by Fiat things have changed.

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---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:58 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
Chrysler is actually doing quite well with sales right now.
Ford's sales are flat...
I thought Ford sales were doing great. Perhaps I'm wrong..

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Old 09-03-2014, 03:05 PM   #737
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I read that this morning in a USA Today article.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:06 PM   #738
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The Chrysler LX (LD, LC) platform is solid. It shares most components with MB S and E class cars. I've owned an AMG E55, it was a solid *** car. You can easily tell the LX cars are also built this way.

True, some of the materials, fit and finish weren't the best (at least on first gen LX cars) but Chrysler has made HUGE improvements in all areas, especially fit, finish and materials.

As for sales, Challenger sales have been up year over year for the last two or three years. Mustang and Camaro sales have fallen. You can't just look at the volume of sales, you need to see whether they are steady, increasing or decreasing.

Chrysler has a great product with the 300, Charger and Challenger. If you think different, go drive one. Just try not to let the Ford fanboyism affect your judgement.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:18 PM   #739
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The statement about Mopar fans buying Mopar, and Ford fans buying Ford, regardless of the competition's latest and greatest horsepower monster, is really the key point, here.

If you want a 750hp Mustang, then this thread really isn't going to do anything for you, unless you're just looking for an argument.

If you want to discuss the 2015 Challenger Hellcat 707hp, you have come to the right place.

The last six replies, or so, are the first I have heard of Chrysler having fit/finish problems, or mechanical quality issues. My fiance has a 2008 Sebring that is put together just as well as any Ford economy sedan I have seen or been in. Her brother has a Chrysler 300 that has very nice fit and finish. Both vehicles are downright reliable, requiring nothing more than the usual maintenance, like fluids and filters and brakes. My brother's Dodge Ram is put together just as well as a Mustang from the same era. Been in and around both, one isn't any better than the other in terms of quality of assembly.

The actual Hellcat I was looking at seemed to be assembled very well. I would hope so, given the price, but regardless, its fit/finish were very nice indeed.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:29 PM   #740
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Every Chrysler product I've seen is bad, either mechanical problems, or just a crappy build.
That's your opinion
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:33 PM   #741
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That's your opinion
Which is based on what I have seen.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:50 PM   #742
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Originally Posted by Compstall View Post
That's your opinion
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Originally Posted by mustangz View Post
Which is based on what I have seen.
Tomorrow's NY Times Front Page Headline:

"Chrysler, an 89 year old staple in American automobile manufacturing, brought down to it's knees by mustangz's. He claims that his negative opinion of the company is based on the vast array of Chrysler products he has had the misfortune of coming in contact with in his lengthy 18 years on this planet."

A spokesperson from Chrysler was quoted saying, "Thanks to mustangz, this is an end of an era."
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:55 PM   #743
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I grew up and lived most of my life in the Salinas valley of California. That is where a lot of the lettuce that you guys eat, 7 or 8 months out of the year, comes from.
Farmers have trucks and they're not stupid. They buy trucks that they know, historically, are going to last for several years. Very few farms use Dodge trucks. The great majority are Fords and Chevrolet is the second most popular brand.
I spent most of my working career in the construction industry and it was the same there. Fords dominated, some guys used Chevy's, rarely, youd see a Dodge on the construction site.
Of course, everyone has a brand that they prefer, but this was the trend for those of us that considered our trucks to be the most important, and, most expensive tool that we owned.
I rarely ever see any 20+ year old Dodge trucks on the road but I'm still driving my early 90's Ford and it has almost 600k miles on it. I see a lot of other "survivor" Fords as well.
I know that it isn't a very scientific way to judge, but that's what I look at...How well that a particular model will stand the test of time.
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:57 PM   #744
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Originally Posted by Hack14GT View Post
Tomorrow's NY Times Front Page Headline:

"Chrysler, an 89 year old staple in American automobile manufacturing, brought down to it's knees by mustangz's. He claims that his negative opinion of the company is based on the vast array of Chrysler products he has had the misfortune of coming in contact with in his lengthy 18 years on this planet."

A spokesperson from Chrysler was quoted saying, "Thanks to mustangz, this is an end of an era."
Lol

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Old 09-03-2014, 04:48 PM   #745
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The statement about Mopar fans buying Mopar, and Ford fans buying Ford, regardless of the competition's latest and greatest horsepower monster, is really the key point, here.

If you want a 750hp Mustang, then this thread really isn't going to do anything for you, unless you're just looking for an argument.

If you want to discuss the 2015 Challenger Hellcat 707hp, you have come to the right place.

The last six replies, or so, are the first I have heard of Chrysler having fit/finish problems, or mechanical quality issues. My fiance has a 2008 Sebring that is put together just as well as any Ford economy sedan I have seen or been in. Her brother has a Chrysler 300 that has very nice fit and finish. Both vehicles are downright reliable, requiring nothing more than the usual maintenance, like fluids and filters and brakes. My brother's Dodge Ram is put together just as well as a Mustang from the same era. Been in and around both, one isn't any better than the other in terms of quality of assembly.

The actual Hellcat I was looking at seemed to be assembled very well. I would hope so, given the price, but regardless, its fit/finish were very nice indeed.
How many miles does your fiance's 2008 Sebring have?

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Old 09-03-2014, 05:03 PM   #746
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I'm in no way implying that Edmunds has any more experience or knowledge about vehicles than any of the members on this, or any other, prestigious internet forum... but, Edmunds' top recommended trucks are:
1. Ram 1500
2. F-150
3. Silverado
But what does any of this have to do with the Hellcat? Is there anyone with actual experience in a Challenger to say that the quality of engineering, assembly, or handling is poor? How about the latest $70,000 Challenger that this topic is supposedly about? You don't think that Chrysler might have paid just a little bit of attention to how they put their star performer together?
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:05 PM   #747
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Oh, and her Sebring has 120k miles.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:10 PM   #748
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"Well said sir" and my apologies if my comment came off rude, but the muscle car war is in full effect the line is in the sand and time to choose your side ... Haha I'm a big time Mustang enthusiasts so for me this thread ignites a mild distain "like a true rivalry should". There is entirely too many double agents on here, though I've seen a few pictures of it and it's beautifully designed ride no lie but I can't speak for everyone but I love Mustangs and personally prefer to drive nothing else. I doubt I will ever have the coin "legally" to purchase either one of these mechanical behemoths lol but I'm content with cruising in my GT "one finger salute" to all challengers, camaro's, chargers, corvettes and European exotics



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Old 09-03-2014, 05:36 PM   #749
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Oh, and her Sebring has 120k miles.
Well, that's excellent news. Hopefully it will last another 100k miles. From my personal experiences the Chrysler products of the past decades (90's) did not hold up. If the fit and Finish and quality of Chrysler products are such good quality , then their ratings should be far higher. Why is Chrysler dead last in car sales in the past several years?

If Chrysler was doing so well and built quality cars, would they have ever been bought out by Fiat?

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Old 09-03-2014, 06:01 PM   #750
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Tomorrow's NY Times Front Page Headline:



"Chrysler, an 89 year old staple in American automobile manufacturing, brought down to it's knees by mustangz's. He claims that his negative opinion of the company is based on the vast array of Chrysler products he has had the misfortune of coming in contact with in his lengthy 18 years on this planet."



A spokesperson from Chrysler was quoted saying, "Thanks to mustangz, this is an end of an era."

Hehe
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:22 PM   #751
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I'm just gonna give you my honest opinion here... My 2008 Charger R/T had much better fit and finish than my 2014 Mustang GT. And it never had a single mechanical problem in 85,000 miles. And at the time, it was cheap ($25,000 out the door for pretty much all the options, new) for the performance you got out of it.

And it was weird, because all the Mopar guys didn't sit around and bash on Ford and GM all day...


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A stripped 2008 Charger RT with zero options was 29+ before destination, tax, title. I know it's hard to sell a dodge, but 12k+ off the price? I struggle a bit with that.

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Old 09-03-2014, 08:28 PM   #752
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Oh, and her Sebring has 120k miles.
The brand new 2007 auto convertible a family member bought turned out to be total garbage.

I will note, a LOT of chrysler owners think that common maintenance is to replace major components. So maintenance to us, oil changes, tires, is not to them...

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Old 09-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #753
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So the huge write up citing several sources was deleted with a "you don't have permission to access this page." C'mon son!

Long story short, chrysler sucks. They are ranked 2nd, 4th, 7th, and 9th worse of 32 brands. Fair and equal testing.

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/201...ss-Release.htm


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Old 09-03-2014, 09:11 PM   #754
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A stripped 2008 Charger RT with zero options was 29+ before destination, tax, title. I know it's hard to sell a dodge, but 12k+ off the price? I struggle a bit with that.

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

Yeah, I understand how that would be hard for you to believe. Then again I did also just get a brand new Mustang for $8k off sticker and it was a car that they thought was valuable enough to refuse transfer to a dealer closer to me so I had to go physically buy it. Still got $8k off. The Charger sticker is around here somewhere. I wanna say it was $36k and we were out the door for $25k. If you don't believe it, that's fine. It was a slightly unusual circumstance as well. We got there to check out the car and the manager had taken it to pick up her dry cleaning. We had a lot of bargaining room I guess. Also it was an 08 and they put the eagle intake manifold on the 09 and it was rumored to make like 10 more horsepower so the dealer could have wanted to ditch one of their last 08s.


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Old 09-03-2014, 09:50 PM   #755
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Yeah, I understand how that would be hard for you to believe. Then again I did also just get a brand new Mustang for $8k off sticker and it was a car that they thought was valuable enough to refuse transfer to a dealer closer to me so I had to go physically buy it. Still got $8k off. The Charger sticker is around here somewhere. I wanna say it was $36k and we were out the door for $25k. If you don't believe it, that's fine. It was a slightly unusual circumstance as well. We got there to check out the car and the manager had taken it to pick up her dry cleaning. We had a lot of bargaining room I guess. Also it was an 08 and they put the eagle intake manifold on the 09 and it was rumored to make like 10 more horsepower so the dealer could have wanted to ditch one of their last 08s.


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I'm not CALLING you a liar. I was always taught to believe half of what I see, and nothing that I hear- so I look at data over anything else. But regardless of the deal you got, most people spent a LOT more than that lol (and to compare, it's not in the same regards. Like comparing a 2010 vs 2011 Mustang. Not really fair. People buying a 2010 Mustang with 2011s on the lot got a MUCH better deal than those who bought 2010s when the 2009s were on the lot).

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Old 09-03-2014, 09:56 PM   #756
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Old 09-03-2014, 09:56 PM   #757
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To the group, here are the results for how many issues per 100 vehicles sold. chrysler and jeep are in the four worse, with 181 and 178 problems per 100 vehicles, respectively.

http://m.autos.aol.com/gallery/best-quality-cars/

This is pulled from the other list, but images and editorial make it a little easier to take in.

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Old 09-03-2014, 11:13 PM   #758
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To the group, here are the results for how many issues per 100 vehicles sold. chrysler and jeep are in the four worse, with 181 and 178 problems per 100 vehicles, respectively.

http://m.autos.aol.com/gallery/best-quality-cars/

This is pulled from the other list, but images and editorial make it a little easier to take in.

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I told ya all Chrysler's were complete junk. Ha ha ha ha ha. POS

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Old 09-04-2014, 12:54 AM   #759
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2015 challenger hellcat 707 hp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hack14GT View Post
Tomorrow's NY Times Front Page Headline:

"Chrysler, an 89 year old staple in American automobile manufacturing, brought down to it's knees by mustangz's. He claims that his negative opinion of the company is based on the vast array of Chrysler products he has had the misfortune of coming in contact with in his lengthy 18 years on this planet."

A spokesperson from Chrysler was quoted saying, "Thanks to mustangz, this is an end of an era."
Grunts never appreciate anyone other than other grunts.

Every Einstein always had to prove themselves to burly old men with the intellects of rocks and with the sharpness of boulders who think themselves sharp as spears and pointed as daggers.

Why don't you first ask him why he says that rather than bash him with the sheer force authoritative brutality?

Not calling mustangz an Einstein but seems more commendable than some hacks who act so authoritatively.

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Old 09-04-2014, 01:12 AM   #760
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Haha.
We're really tearing Chrysler apart here.
Eventually, one of us "super sleuths" is going to dig up something REALLY good... Like the CEO is cheating on his wife or something.

Lol.
Still can't deny that the Hellcat is BADASS!

Even if it needs to go into the shop after every trip around the block...
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:18 AM   #761
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Haha.
We're really tearing Chrysler apart here.
Eventually, one of us "super sleuths" is going to dig up something REALLY good... Like the CEO is cheating on his wife or something.

Lol.
Still can't deny that the Hellcat is BADASS!

Even if it needs to go into the shop after every trip around the block...
All CEOs swindle, cheat or otherwise assume more than a fair share lol.

I'm sure Mary Barra isn't the whitest sheep in GMs flock. I betcha she probably has a Ford in her garage.


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Old 09-04-2014, 06:24 AM   #762
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Haha.
We're really tearing Chrysler apart here.
Eventually, one of us "super sleuths" is going to dig up something REALLY good... Like the CEO is cheating on his wife or something.

Lol.
Still can't deny that the Hellcat is BADASS!

Even if it needs to go into the shop after every trip around the block...
I might not trust it to get me to work everyday, but I still think the 2014 charger srt8s look great. Oh yea, the "SRT" line flopped and chrysler has discontinued it. Srts still exist, they are just under their respective brand.

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Old 09-04-2014, 06:59 AM   #763
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Haha.
We're really tearing Chrysler apart here.
Eventually, one of us "super sleuths" is going to dig up something REALLY good... Like the CEO is cheating on his wife or something.

Lol.
Still can't deny that the Hellcat is BADASS!

Even if it needs to go into the shop after every trip around the block...
That hellcat is bad a$$. Beautiful looking!

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Old 09-04-2014, 09:11 AM   #764
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Dallas, you are so right with that grunts only appreciate grunts comment. Straight up open hostility to all support/pogue/fobbit types. Blatant disregard for everyone not on the line. It's funny that you mentioned that, I hadn't thought about the brand loyalty issue in such a way. Kudos.

As for Chrysler ranking last and having a lot of issues, hopefully they have got their $#!+ straight with the Hellcat. Quality issues that may have been a minor inconvenience on a normal car can be deadly serious on a 700+hp land-missile.

From everything I have read about the Hellcat, it seems they took the extra step to beef up everything that you would expect needs to be beefed up to handle 650ft/lbs of torque. I guess only time will tell.

With a Hellcat Charger coming out, I wonder if Dodge will ever offer the Hellcat motor as a crate engine. They clearly have enough faith in the platform to put it in multiple models.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:03 AM   #765
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Dallas, you are so right with that grunts only appreciate grunts comment. Straight up open hostility to all support/pogue/fobbit types. Blatant disregard for everyone not on the line. It's funny that you mentioned that, I hadn't thought about the brand loyalty issue in such a way. Kudos.

As for Chrysler ranking last and having a lot of issues, hopefully they have got their $#!+ straight with the Hellcat. Quality issues that may have been a minor inconvenience on a normal car can be deadly serious on a 700+hp land-missile.

From everything I have read about the Hellcat, it seems they took the extra step to beef up everything that you would expect needs to be beefed up to handle 650ft/lbs of torque. I guess only time will tell.

With a Hellcat Charger coming out, I wonder if Dodge will ever offer the Hellcat motor as a crate engine. They clearly have enough faith in the platform to put it in multiple models.
As beautiful as that Hellcat will be and is, there will be little units sold.

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Old 09-04-2014, 10:36 AM   #766
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Oh, for sure. The Hellcat is twice the price of the other Challengers, so even performance minded Challenger enthusiasts will probably get a SRT 392 and turbo it before they sell the house for a Hellcat.

You can get a brand new SRT 392 for $46,000 and a twin turbo kit from Hellion for $7,000... and you're still saving money compared to the Hellcat. So if you are in the market for a new car and want a fast Challenger, there are still options other than the Hellcat.

I don't expect many to sell. The only way the Hellcat will survive is if Ford and GM both come out with 700+hp production vehicles to compete. Even then, with a full line of monster-muscle-cars, the sales will be slim across all the brands just because it's cheaper to buy the base V8 model and build it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:53 AM   #767
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Oh, for sure. The Hellcat is twice the price of the other Challengers, so even performance minded Challenger enthusiasts will probably get a SRT 392 and turbo it before they sell the house for a Hellcat.

You can get a brand new SRT 392 for $46,000 and a twin turbo kit from Hellion for $7,000... and you're still saving money compared to the Hellcat. So if you are in the market for a new car and want a fast Challenger, there are still options other than the Hellcat.

I don't expect many to sell. The only way the Hellcat will survive is if Ford and GM both come out with 700+hp production vehicles to compete. Even then, with a full line of monster-muscle-cars, the sales will be slim across all the brands just because it's cheaper to buy the base V8 model and build it.
Your totally correct. Very few people gonna spend that coin for the Hell cat. Heck, the Challenger units for the past several years have been horrible compared to units sold of mustangs and Camaro's

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Old 09-04-2014, 12:09 PM   #768
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The horsepower wars are awesome, but the prices of these cars are getting ridiculous. I thought the whole point of the pony car, and even the muscle cars, was that they were affordable to us mere mortals. Every hillbilly that wanted a Challenger could slang a couple bottles of moonshine and afford one. Now, these beasts are double the price of the base models... and it's the same across the board. Your GT500's and ZL1's and now the Hellcat are in big boy price ranges.

Who, besides Jay Leno, is actually going to be able to afford one? And with so few sales, and such a huge investment up front, there will doubtfully ever be any real aftermarket support for these cars. And that's sad, because that is what makes the American car scene so awesome... you can have a Mustang exclusive car show and see 100 different builds. With no aftermarket, you will have 100 Hellcats, all the exact same as the one next to it. What's the fun in that?

I am happy that Chrysler had the b@lls and ambition to build such a beast, but I don't foresee the Hellcat, or anything built to contend with it, really ssurviving. Especially with the focus on fuel economy in this day and age. 13 minutes worth of full throttle emptying the gas tank just isn't the direction the car industry is headed. Cool, oh hell yes. But practical, not so much.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:42 PM   #769
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Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
The horsepower wars are awesome, but the prices of these cars are getting ridiculous. I thought the whole point of the pony car, and even the muscle cars, was that they were affordable to us mere mortals. Every hillbilly that wanted a Challenger could slang a couple bottles of moonshine and afford one. Now, these beasts are double the price of the base models... and it's the same across the board. Your GT500's and ZL1's and now the Hellcat are in big boy price ranges.

Who, besides Jay Leno, is actually going to be able to afford one? And with so few sales, and such a huge investment up front, there will doubtfully ever be any real aftermarket support for these cars. And that's sad, because that is what makes the American car scene so awesome... you can have a Mustang exclusive car show and see 100 different builds. With no aftermarket, you will have 100 Hellcats, all the exact same as the one next to it. What's the fun in that?

I am happy that Chrysler had the b@lls and ambition to build such a beast, but I don't foresee the Hellcat, or anything built to contend with it, really ssurviving. Especially with the focus on fuel economy in this day and age. 13 minutes worth of full throttle emptying the gas tank just isn't the direction the car industry is headed. Cool, oh hell yes. But practical, not so much.
Well to be honest the price of a hellcat or the new GT350/500/Cobra is easily only a third to a half of exotic cars. And their performance is just as good and better than cars two to four times the price.

Yeah $60-70k is steep but these are special models. The price of the GT and the SRT are still comparably cheap. I for one would be willing to pay $60-70 for a GT500 and would have bought a 2013 model but the greedy dealers wanted $81k for a $17-18k markup. That and a $9k markup for the Boss. So I told them fuk off.

You're absolutely right about the aftermarket appeal unless your a concours guy and value OEM over customization.


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Old 09-04-2014, 02:10 PM   #770
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I'm not trying to sound like the performance isn't worth the price. The Hellcat/GT500/ZL1 are all amazing machines, and a steal compared to European counterparts. But they have kind of crept into that European car exclusiveness in the sense that you pretty much have to be happy with what that initial price gets you. Yes, there are companies that make aftermarket parts for Lamborghini/Ferrari/etc, and there will be an aftermarket for these super-ponies... but they are out of reach for the entire middle class.

I'm not the kind of guy that can leave well enough alone. I love to tinker with things and fix things even though they aren't broken. Not that I could ever afford a $70k car anyways, but even if I could, I need to be able to modify it.
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