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Old 07-22-2014, 10:02 AM   #176
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To be fair, I will be the first to admit that I don't have a Mustang. I'm not even a fan of Mustangs, to tell the truth. I am, however, a fan of decent engineering, and also stamping out ignorance. People making up cute little monikers to degrade the Hellcat just because Ford didn't build it is the same as racism. Damn purists are too blind and ignorant to appreciate anything different.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:21 AM   #177
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:23 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by gladiatoro View Post




I never said the hellcat was not a great peace of engineering which it is

I just said it was fat/obese which it is too , it does look cool though I must admit .

I'm not sure you can call the Mustang "slim." It's almost two tons. Ha!
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:27 AM   #179
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To be fair, I will be the first to admit that I don't have a Mustang. I'm not even a fan of Mustangs, to tell the truth. I am, however, a fan of decent engineering, and also stamping out ignorance. People making up cute little monikers to degrade the Hellcat just because Ford didn't build it is the same as racism. Damn purists are too blind and ignorant to appreciate anything different.

Man I have listened to a lot of car arguments in the past but never have I watched the racism card being thrown out during one. I award you points.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:54 AM   #180
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And, if I'm not mistaken, the Mustang has a pretty widespread reputation for being a heavy, non-cornering vehicle, as well. So to throw stones at the Challenger for being overweight, and to say it will only be good for going on a straight track is akin to the kettle calling the pot vlack.

I think that some of the Mustang purists around here are just happy that there is finally someone new to criticize for being "fat". Let's not forget that the Mustang has never been particularly light on its feet, either handling wise or just considering curb weight.

If fact, none of the "pony cars" have ever been known for their light weight, or their wonderful prowess through the corners. It would be really cool to see Ford/Chevy/Dodge put their latest and greatest powerplant in a road course oriented chassis with an obvious dedication to shaving weight wherever possible.

But we aren't discussing wishlists or what-ifs... this topic was started to discuss the Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Not the GT500. Not the modified GT500 that might beat the stock Hellcat. We are supposed to be simply conversing about the latest contender put out by Dodge.

Everyone is more than welcome to have an opinion. Love it, hate it, say it is or is not all that it's cracked up to be... but for the love of Zeus, and all that is holy, try keep on topic. If you want to start a thread for "I saved $10k buying a GT500 instead of the Hellcat, and now my upgraded GT finally beats the bone-stock Challenger" then do it elsewhere.

Back on topic, I think that the cold air intake, in place of the driver side light is absolutely awesome. And, the fact that they went straight to the twin screw supercharger is a fine choice. I am curious about what they all have done in the way of suspension and launch control, to keep all those ponies planted on the floor.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:04 PM   #181
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And, if I'm not mistaken, the Mustang has a pretty widespread reputation for being a heavy, non-cornering vehicle, as well. So to throw stones at the Challenger for being overweight, and to say it will only be good for going on a straight track is akin to the kettle calling the pot vlack.



I think that some of the Mustang purists around here are just happy that there is finally someone new to criticize for being "fat". Let's not forget that the Mustang has never been particularly light on its feet, either handling wise or just considering curb weight.



If fact, none of the "pony cars" have ever been known for their light weight, or their wonderful prowess through the corners. It would be really cool to see Ford/Chevy/Dodge put their latest and greatest powerplant in a road course oriented chassis with an obvious dedication to shaving weight wherever possible.



But we aren't discussing wishlists or what-ifs... this topic was started to discuss the Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Not the GT500. Not the modified GT500 that might beat the stock Hellcat. We are supposed to be simply conversing about the latest contender put out by Dodge.



Everyone is more than welcome to have an opinion. Love it, hate it, say it is or is not all that it's cracked up to be... but for the love of Zeus, and all that is holy, try keep on topic. If you want to start a thread for "I saved $10k buying a GT500 instead of the Hellcat, and now my upgraded GT finally beats the bone-stock Challenger" then do it elsewhere.



Back on topic, I think that the cold air intake, in place of the driver side light is absolutely awesome. And, the fact that they went straight to the twin screw supercharger is a fine choice. I am curious about what they all have done in the way of suspension and launch control, to keep all those ponies planted on the floor.

True I love that as well but I noticed when I saw it in person around that opening for the intake there is a halo light around it for a little accent and a source of light


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Old 07-22-2014, 12:22 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by DavidBoren View Post
And, if I'm not mistaken, the Mustang has a pretty widespread reputation for being a heavy, non-cornering vehicle, as well. So to throw stones at the Challenger for being overweight, and to say it will only be good for going on a straight track is akin to the kettle calling the pot vlack.

I think that some of the Mustang purists around here are just happy that there is finally someone new to criticize for being "fat". Let's not forget that the Mustang has never been particularly light on its feet, either handling wise or just considering curb weight.

If fact, none of the "pony cars" have ever been known for their light weight, or their wonderful prowess through the corners. It would be really cool to see Ford/Chevy/Dodge put their latest and greatest powerplant in a road course oriented chassis with an obvious dedication to shaving weight wherever possible.

But we aren't discussing wishlists or what-ifs... this topic was started to discuss the Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Not the GT500. Not the modified GT500 that might beat the stock Hellcat. We are supposed to be simply conversing about the latest contender put out by Dodge.

Everyone is more than welcome to have an opinion. Love it, hate it, say it is or is not all that it's cracked up to be... but for the love of Zeus, and all that is holy, try keep on topic. If you want to start a thread for "I saved $10k buying a GT500 instead of the Hellcat, and now my upgraded GT finally beats the bone-stock Challenger" then do it elsewhere.

Back on topic, I think that the cold air intake, in place of the driver side light is absolutely awesome. And, the fact that they went straight to the twin screw supercharger is a fine choice. I am curious about what they all have done in the way of suspension and launch control, to keep all those ponies planted on the floor.
I'm extremely curious too how they keep the car planted in a straight. If you look at the GT500 and the Hell Cat, the Shelby has what looks like fatter rear tires and supposedly better rear setup for a good acceleration romp.

So... Hell Cat's got an IRS and skinnier tires but beats out the Shelby. That's just amazing.

However, the dimensions are still the same and I drove a rental once and the Challenger barely fit my garage front to back lol.

And it felt like driving the family's old caddy deville. But to be honest, like a hot woman, I wouldn't kick the Hell Cat out of my garage.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:13 PM   #183
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It's true, the Challenger is huge. Tyler's (badsheep5.0) Mustang looks itty-biddy next to one. I haven't driven one yet, but I find it funny that the two door Challenger is the exact same size as their four door Charger... plus or minus 2" in any direction.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:17 PM   #184
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It's true, the Challenger is huge. Tyler's (badsheep5.0) Mustang looks itty-biddy next to one. I haven't driven one yet, but I find it funny that the two door Challenger is the exact same size as their four door Charger... plus or minus 2" in any direction.

Lol yup parked next to a challenger right now at work


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Old 07-22-2014, 03:40 PM   #185
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Hey, Gladiator, or whatever, if you can make the GT500 better than the Hellcat with all the money you save, does that mean if I buy a 1972 VW SuperBeetle, or a 1999 Miata, or a 1969 240z, or a 1980 Corolla and spend the $50,000 I saved dropping in a 402ci LSx/Whipple/T56magnum and a full road race suspension, that I have a valid car for this argument?

The Hellcat is a fine piece of engineering... regardless of whether or not your precious Ford Motor Company made it. Just appreciate the fact that we all get to witness, and some might even be lucky enough to partake in, a modern American muscle shootout.

Anyone can upgrade a vehicle to 1,000+ horsepower these days. The fact that domestic car manufacturers are putting them on showroom floors is awesome, no matter which showroom floor it's on. It is a good day to be a car guy (or girl, in Glad's case).

The only way to compare these cars is stock for stock. And bone-stock, the Hellcat beat yesteryear's GT500. Now that Ford knows what they are up against, I am sure they will push the envelope a little further. And the Camaro, I'm sure, will follow suit. We can't get all caught up saying what might happen if or when this or that upgrade is applied to this or that car. Chances are, if you do the same upgrades to both a GT500/Hellcat, that the Hellcat will still win.


Comparing a 1999 Miata to a Shelby is a bit of a JOKE it really is . Fact is the Shelby is in direct competition with the Hell Cat , same market segment similar price give or take 10 -20 k . My point was and always will be if you buy a brand new GT500 or a brand new Hellcat the money you save would destroy the FAT CAT and at the end of the day you still spent the same amount of money. Also stock for stock I bet the Shelby would beat the FAT CAT around a track let's say Laguna Seca , there is just no way a 4200+ pound BEAST can corner as well as a 3850 pound vehicle , it ain't gona happen even with the FAT CAT sporting it's obese IRS set up . The Shelby sports the most advanced live axle ever created just look at the BOSS 302 and how well it performs on the track.

So in a 1/4 mile the FAT CAT has a very slight advantage stock for stock
but in the real world there are corners to be driven too.... I do however like the
massive HP war that is going on it's cool and is going to new heights never seen before . The Camaro will be next with it's ultra light alpha platform it's new LT1 DI engine ( 460 Hp 460 fb tq ) no doubt a special version will be made SUPERCHARGED with that engine and create the new ZL1 or Z28 track car I bet they can get 700+ Hp out of that motor.

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Old 07-22-2014, 03:41 PM   #186
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Hey, Gladiator, or whatever, if you can make the GT500 better than the Hellcat with all the money you save, does that mean if I buy a 1972 VW SuperBeetle, or a 1999 Miata, or a 1969 240z, or a 1980 Corolla and spend the $50,000 I saved dropping in a 402ci LSx/Whipple/T56magnum and a full road race suspension, that I have a valid car for this argument?

The Hellcat is a fine piece of engineering... regardless of whether or not your precious Ford Motor Company made it. Just appreciate the fact that we all get to witness, and some might even be lucky enough to partake in, a modern American muscle shootout.

Anyone can upgrade a vehicle to 1,000+ horsepower these days. The fact that domestic car manufacturers are putting them on showroom floors is awesome, no matter which showroom floor it's on. It is a good day to be a car guy (or girl, in Glad's case).

The only way to compare these cars is stock for stock. And bone-stock, the Hellcat beat yesteryear's GT500. Now that Ford knows what they are up against, I am sure they will push the envelope a little further. And the Camaro, I'm sure, will follow suit. We can't get all caught up saying what might happen if or when this or that upgrade is applied to this or that car. Chances are, if you do the same upgrades to both a GT500/Hellcat, that the Hellcat will still win.


Comparing a 1999 Miata to a Shelby is a bit of a JOKE it really is . Fact is the Shelby is in direct competition with the Hell Cat , same market segment similar price give or take 10 -20 k . My point was and always will be if you buy a brand new GT500 or a brand new Hellcat the money you save would destroy the FAT CAT and at the end of the day you still spent the same amount of money so if I was in the buying mode it would be an easy choice. Also stock for stock I bet the Shelby would beat the FAT CAT around a track let's say Laguna Seca , there is just no way a 4200+ pound BEAST can corner as well as a 3850 pound vehicle , it ain't gona happen even with the FAT CAT sporting it's obese IRS set up . The Shelby sports the most advanced live axle ever created just look at the BOSS 302 and how well it performs on the track.

So in a 1/4 mile the FAT CAT has a very slight advantage stock for stock
but in the real world there are corners to be driven too.... I do however like the
massive HP war that is going on it's cool and is going to new heights never seen before . The Camaro will be next with it's ultra light alpha platform it's new LT1 DI engine ( 460 Hp 460 fb tq ) no doubt a special version will be made SUPERCHARGED with that engine and create the new ZL1 or Z28 track car I bet they can get 700+ Hp out of that motor.

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Old 07-22-2014, 03:48 PM   #187
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If fact, none of the "pony cars" have ever been known for their light weight, or their wonderful prowess through the corners. It would be really cool to see Ford/Chevy/Dodge put their latest and greatest powerplant in a road course oriented chassis with an obvious dedication to shaving weight wherever possible.

The Z28 changes that I think. Otherwise, you're right. Which, as I said before, is why I won't bash the HC for it's weight. The Mustang is a big b***h. I mean we are talking 16 feet long and nearly two tons. There's nothing small about it. And as the Bugatti Veyron (coming in at 4200 lbs) can prove, power can overcome weight.
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:57 PM   #188
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Glad, there is a supercharged version of the new LT1. It's called the LT4. If that finds its way into a lightweight Camaro chassis, this entire argument may end up being moot.

I will give it to Ford with their evolution of the live rear axle. I just like the engineering these competitions create a need for. It forces change and new ideas. I am a huge fan of the new Stingray Corvette. The fact that Chevy invented a new engine for it is outstanding. And it's the only thing new in the way of pushrod motors.

A lightweight LT4 Camaro will be scary, and tough to beat.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:02 PM   #189
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Glad, there is a supercharged version of the new LT1. It's called the LT4. If that finds its way into a lightweight Camaro chassis, this entire argument may end up being moot.

I will give it to Ford with their evolution of the live rear axle. I just like the engineering these competitions create a need for. It forces change and new ideas. I am a huge fan of the new Stingray Corvette. The fact that Chevy invented a new engine for it is outstanding. And it's the only thing new in the way of pushrod motors.

A lightweight LT4 Camaro will be scary, and tough to beat.

Yes this is true I am excited to see what that pony war 2 will bring out of the wood works although I wish there was some way to bring back some now dead competitors


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Old 07-22-2014, 04:04 PM   #190
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Glad, there is a supercharged version of the new LT1. It's called the LT4. If that finds its way into a lightweight Camaro chassis, this entire argument may end up being moot.

I will give it to Ford with their evolution of the live rear axle. I just like the engineering these competitions create a need for. It forces change and new ideas. I am a huge fan of the new Stingray Corvette. The fact that Chevy invented a new engine for it is outstanding. And it's the only thing new in the way of pushrod motors.

A lightweight LT4 Camaro will be scary, and tough to beat.
That's all fine and good but we're talking about the new "badass" Challenger here David...
Try to stay on topic.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:08 PM   #191
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A lightweight LT4 Camaro will be scary, and tough to beat.
Not for gladiatoro, he'll just up the boost on his BLOWER, strap superman to his engine, take off anything he deems unnecessary and walk that LT4... since he thinks only the Mustang is a good car.

Don't you know that he can beat anyone... yes, this is pure sarcasm.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:11 PM   #192
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I'm scared to line up next to gladiatoro. Thats why I took the my last nitrous kit off the car. :/

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Old 07-22-2014, 04:17 PM   #193
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To be fair, I will be the first to admit that I don't have a Mustang. I'm not even a fan of Mustangs, to tell the truth. I am, however, a fan of decent engineering, and also stamping out ignorance. People making up cute little monikers to degrade the Hellcat just because Ford didn't build it is the same as racism. Damn purists are too blind and ignorant to appreciate anything different.

Racism? Dude get real
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:46 PM   #194
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Yes, if we are talking about the Hellcat, not a Camaro. I stand corrected.

And racism is comparable, absolutely. It's unabashed ignorance. Sure, no one is out burning crosses in the parking lot at Dodge dealerships, but being so ignorant and childish to not address the Hellcat by its name is absolutely on the same level as soldiers dehumanizing the enemy (charlie, hadji, kraut, etc)... ignorance is the same, no matter how it's packaged or wrapped.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:52 PM   #195
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Geesus who the f&ck brought racism into this?

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Old 07-22-2014, 05:13 PM   #196
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2015 challenger hellcat 707 hp

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Yes, if we are talking about the Hellcat, not a Camaro. I stand corrected.

And racism is comparable, absolutely. It's unabashed ignorance. Sure, no one is out burning crosses in the parking lot at Dodge dealerships, but being so ignorant and childish to not address the Hellcat by its name is absolutely on the same level as soldiers dehumanizing the enemy (charlie, hadji, kraut, etc)... ignorance is the same, no matter how it's packaged or wrapped.
Yes it's ignorance but by a vastly different order. A steak burger from Steak n Shake maybe classified as a "steak" because it may use a type of steak in its grind but its far and away from calling it a Genuine Kobe Ribeye or even a wagyu ribeye.

Racism led to the holocaust as well as hangings and burnings. It is very much a whole other worldly bit of difference between actual racism and being ignorant about cars.

Please don't pull a Gladiatoro here. One is enough
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:33 PM   #197
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Yes it's ignorance but by a vastly different order. A steak burger from Steak n Shake maybe classified as a "steak" because it may use a type of steak in its grind but its far and away from calling it a Genuine Kobe Ribeye or even a wagyu ribeye.

Racism led to the holocaust as well as hangings and burnings. It is very much a whole other worldly bit of difference between actual racism and being ignorant about cars.

Please don't pull a Gladiatoro here. One is enough
Who said I was a racist ???? I'm friends with everyone .
Even FAT CAT only because of it's nasty engine.

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Old 07-22-2014, 07:37 PM   #198
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Not for gladiatoro, he'll just up the boost on his BLOWER, strap superman to his engine, take off anything he deems unnecessary and walk that LT4... since he thinks only the Mustang is a good car.

Don't you know that he can beat anyone... yes, this is pure sarcasm.
No I prefer the Mustang my favorite car of all time is the 67-68 Fastback GT
a pure work of art in my humble opinion , the new Camaro interests me though rumors are it draws it's inspiration from the 71 Camaro , plus that new engine
WOW and of course it's new alpha platform ie light weight.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:44 PM   #199
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:45 PM   #200
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Who said I was a racist ???? I'm friends with everyone .
Even FAT CAT only because of it's nasty engine.

We aren't talking about you with that comment. Stop being conceited and thinking everything is directed at you.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:46 PM   #201
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We aren't talking about you with that comment. Stop being conceited and thinking everything is directed at you.

Right needs to stop pulling a old school mustangz


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Old 07-22-2014, 07:46 PM   #202
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New render.
Looks nice... but same problem as the 15 Mustang to me... I hate the grille and headlights.

The spy shots make it look like the Transformers 4 concept is fairly close. I couldn't see how they are concealing that renders front under the spy shot camo.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:49 PM   #203
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Right needs to stop pulling a old school mustangz


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Old 07-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #204
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Haha, +1.

Be any who back to the hell cat .... I am hoping for a vanishing point remake with the release of the hell cat


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Old 07-22-2014, 07:53 PM   #205
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Here is a Forbes article about the Hellcat. It can burn 1.5 gallons of fuel in a minute. Lol.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/...-powerful-car/
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:56 PM   #206
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Here is a Forbes article about the Hellcat. It can burn 1.5 liters of fuel in a minute. Lol.
[URL="http://www.forbes.com/sites/kbrauer/2014/07/22/2015-dodge-challenger-srt-hellcat-top-10-amazing-facts-about-americas-most-powerful-car/"[/URL]
What is it, at top speed it empties the tank in 17 minutes? Or something close.
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Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 PM   #207
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Good I want just open it up when ever I am around a Prius


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Old 07-22-2014, 08:03 PM   #208
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What is it, at top speed it empties the tank in 17 minutes? Or something close.
Ok... I'm sold!

Anything that uses that much fuel has got to be making some good power!
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:04 PM   #209
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Good I want just open it up when ever I am around a Prius


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I always pop it in to sportshift and floor it. One time in crowded traffic one would get back up to me, and glare at me, that happened about 4 times before I just switched lanes to directly in front of it.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:17 PM   #210
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Ok... I'm sold!

Anything that uses that much fuel has got to be making some good power!
Yes, this.
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