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Old 03-16-2012, 06:56 PM   #1
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rich

How do I no I'm running rich. No cats rear o2 off. It's tuned for the off road x pipe.
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Old 03-17-2012, 06:04 AM   #2
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Re: rich

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How do I no I'm running rich. No cats rear o2 off. It's tuned for the off road x pipe.
Typically if you're running rich, you'll smell it. Your exhaust will smell like gasoline. I'm not suggesting getting down with your nose to the pipe LMAO, but at start up, or while idling and standing near the back of your car, you might catch a faint whisp of fuel. Sometimes this can be mistaken for a wore out fuel pressure regulator though. Another way to tell is if when your driving and you up shift to a lower gear and let off the throttle if your exhaust pops and sputters and rumbles a lot (kind of like backfiring), or if you ARE backfiring. The only other way to really tell would be to get an emissions test.
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:34 PM   #3
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Yea on downahifts or up shifts it pops
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Old 03-17-2012, 07:55 PM   #4
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Not trying to steal the thread but how would you get that fixed would it need to be tuned or what needs to be adjusted or replaced?
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Old 03-17-2012, 08:30 PM   #5
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No u Good just asking LOL
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Old 03-18-2012, 01:31 AM   #6
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Re: rich

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Not trying to steal the thread but how would you get that fixed would it need to be tuned or what needs to be adjusted or replaced?
There are a few things to get an engine back to optimal air/fuel ratio. First, it could be an actual problem such as O2 sensors failing (except in Berbantor's case). They would need to be replaced, or possibly tricked or turned off (with a tune and depending on upgrades done). Another problem could be the MAF. It would need to be cleaned or possibly replaced, or in the case of upgrades, it might be maxed out and would require a tune to get it back into parameters. A bad fuel pressure regulator will give off the smell of fuel (especially on the inside of the car when the engine is running and the vent is open). If your fuel pump has been replaced or upgraded and it's running a higher fuel pressure than stock (but isn't needed) it can cause a rich condition. If you're not getting enough air for the amount of fuel, this causes a rich condition. The PCM will try to compensate as best it can, but sometimes it's just not able to. Some upgrades you can do to help get rid of a rich condition is obviously a tune, a CAI kit, better spark plugs and ignition system, properly sized headers and a full exhaust system, a return fuel system, eliminating the EGR system, smaller injectors, downsizing the fuel pump, a port job or valve job, better cams, a larger TB, nitrous, supercharger, or turbo. Basically, anything to get more air in, and anything to burn it better LOL. Hope this helps.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #7
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Re: rich

Now I'm having an issue. My car just Backfired Really loud, and its the first time its happened. when i push down my brake pedal a little bit, i can feel jerking or a movement in it as well as in the shift knob. it shakes and idles Really weird. the shaking and all that in the pedal and knob have been there for a long time, but the misfire just happened! I already changed the spark plugs a few weeks ago. Its been running rich for a Long time and i changed the fuel rail and regulator and that seemed like it fixed it but obviously not! Help Please!
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Old 03-18-2012, 06:25 PM   #8
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Well I just got 2 codes one for my tps intermedient fail. And my gas pedal a position
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:24 PM   #9
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Re: rich

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Now I'm having an issue. My car just Backfired Really loud, and its the first time its happened. when i push down my brake pedal a little bit, i can feel jerking or a movement in it as well as in the shift knob. it shakes and idles Really weird. the shaking and all that in the pedal and knob have been there for a long time, but the misfire just happened! I already changed the spark plugs a few weeks ago. Its been running rich for a Long time and i changed the fuel rail and regulator and that seemed like it fixed it but obviously not! Help Please!
It's really hard to 'remote diagnose'. Do you have a check engine light on? Do you have any codes that you can pull or have pulled that you can share? Backfiring means you're running too rich.. this is a problem, however be thankful you're not running lean. When was the last time you had a brake job? The idle shake may be normal.. unless it's really bad. V8s tend to shake/vibrate a little bit at idle. If it's really shaking bad, then that's a problem. Why did the fuel rail need replaced? And did you replace it with a stock one? How are your coils? Have you done anything with them at all?
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:38 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by K Twisted

It's really hard to 'remote diagnose'. Do you have a check engine light on? Do you have any codes that you can pull or have pulled that you can share? Backfiring means you're running too rich.. this is a problem, however be thankful you're not running lean. When was the last time you had a brake job? The idle shake may be normal.. unless it's really bad. V8s tend to shake/vibrate a little bit at idle. If it's really shaking bad, then that's a problem. Why did the fuel rail need replaced? And did you replace it with a stock one? How are your coils? Have you done anything with them at all?
Thanks for replying. I dont have a check engine light on anymore since i replaced the regulator. The rail has the regulator in it so the dealership just bought the whole rail and reg together. Then i found out it Was possible, despite contrary belief, that i could install a new reg. without the rail. Everyone told me otherwise. Anyways, ive never had a brake job i dont think, but ive only had the car for a little less than a year so i really dont know. It pulled up the codes p0172 and 175 before the regulator, and now theyre gone since i swapped. Then i got the code, p0117 and i replaced the coolant temp sensor and that went away as well. No more codes in the system as of this point. This shake is noticeable. Not a normal shake. It jerks and shakes and doesnt feel right at all. Ive been told by o reillys that its probably a misfire with i am inclined to believe but i just swapped the plugs a few weeks ago! Never checked the coils though...
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:48 PM   #11
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Re: rich

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Thanks for replying. I dont have a check engine light on anymore since i replaced the regulator. The rail has the regulator in it so the dealership just bought the whole rail and reg together. Then i found out it Was possible, despite contrary belief, that i could install a new reg. without the rail. Everyone told me otherwise. Anyways, ive never had a brake job i dont think, but ive only had the car for a little less than a year so i really dont know. It pulled up the codes p0172 and 175 before the regulator, and now theyre gone since i swapped. Then i got the code, p0117 and i replaced the coolant temp sensor and that went away as well. No more codes in the system as of this point. This shake is noticeable. Not a normal shake. It jerks and shakes and doesnt feel right at all. Ive been told by o reillys that its probably a misfire with i am inclined to believe but i just swapped the plugs a few weeks ago! Never checked the coils though...
A steady misfire will definately throw a code and the CEL, however a random misfire doesn't always pop up. It has to happen a couple of times for the PCM to be like, "Hey, that's not normal. I can't figure out why it's happening, but it's not normal. It's happened a few times now, so I need to turn on the CEL and throw the 'random misfire' code". I would consider getting new coils. It's possible that one or more aren't firing, or aren't firing correctly. As for the brakes, it's always a good idea to check them or have them checked just to make sure they're ok. If they're fine, you can eliminate them from the equation for causing vibrations and shakes when driving. They obviously won't do anything though while you're idling. Shaking while driving can come from a number of things, but when the cars not moving it can only be the engine or related to it. Since the guy who had your car before you put a 98 engine into a 96, it's possible the engine may not be stock and have aftermarket cams. This would cause the engine to run rougher than normal and may even cause the car to shake, but more than likely you would have more power rather than less power. I'm wondering if when he put the 98 engine in if he also put in a 98 PCM and wiring harness. I imagine he would have to have done this, but I have also seen some strange things..
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:14 AM   #12
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Re: rich

I don't think it has aftermarket cams in it. I just wish i could talk to the previous owner! Ill see what i can do. I just want this to get fixed! how much and what kind of coils should i get? I think i remember a guy telling me that once you clear the codes, you have to experience Everything in the car. like all types of speeds, braking, everything. and then the computer will assess whats going on. I think ill do that. I Really want to figure this out though. I Need to get it tuned as well. i have a CAI and 75mm TB and i think that has something to do with it. Today i was driving and when i floored it in Second gear, the rpms started climbing and then just slowed WAY down like i wasn't flooring it at all. same with the other gears. I just noticed it today, about 30 min after it backfired.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:05 AM   #13
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Re: rich

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I don't think it has aftermarket cams in it. I just wish i could talk to the previous owner! Ill see what i can do. I just want this to get fixed! how much and what kind of coils should i get? I think i remember a guy telling me that once you clear the codes, you have to experience Everything in the car. like all types of speeds, braking, everything. and then the computer will assess whats going on. I think ill do that. I Really want to figure this out though. I Need to get it tuned as well. i have a CAI and 75mm TB and i think that has something to do with it. Today i was driving and when i floored it in Second gear, the rpms started climbing and then just slowed WAY down like i wasn't flooring it at all. same with the other gears. I just noticed it today, about 30 min after it backfired.
In order for the PCM to clear codes on it's own (depending on the code) it has to run through a specific set of circumstances so that it knows for sure the problem is gone. However, in order to get codes, something just has to go wrong. Yes, you certainly need a tune. That very well could clear up the entire issue.. As for coils, I recommend MSD's coil over's. They're roughly $450, but they definately will help increase spark, which is especially good in a rich condition. I would recommend the tune first though. Go to AM and get the SCT tuner with tunes for life. Not only will they write some tunes based off of the mods you currently have, but anytime you add a new mod, you can just let them know and they'll re-write a tune and email it to you to load in your tuner and put in your car. You'll prolly need a PC though.. don't know how well they work with MAC. But it's for life, so that's a bonus. After that, consider getting the coils unless you come to find out it's a coil that's bad. If so, replace them first.
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:08 PM   #14
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Re: rich

hey k-t,
don't wanna hijack, but if you can help, maybe others may benefit too so i am just putting here rather than on a p.m.

here's the thing:
i just installed sct/bama 87 tune on my 04 gt. it REALLY woke the car up but i am having a little of that mild 'backfiring' myself. it occurs at higher revs in every gear (least noticeable in 5th) when letting off gas a little, not under hard acceleration. like i said car is running superb and strong but i figured this might not be good, or it may be nothing(normal). the tune (according to previous owner of handheld, and verified with bama) was written for just a cai (and 4.30 gears, which i corrected).

NOW i do also have a 70mm bbk t/b and a stack racing plenum installed. (as you may recall, my catback and midpipe too come soon, and plugs and cop's some time after that done). i would have thought with added air, i'd be runnin' a little leaner, not richer?

SO, for this tune anyway (still haven't tried the others), and before having tune updated, should i consider changing the spark timing or altering the mixture a little. these appear to both be adjustable options. if answer leaning toward yes, i'll fire up my unit and see what they are both set at.

thanks-
j.v.

p.s. my gut says the exhaust, and (maybe) plugs alone may clear this up, and nothing would need to be altered, but just a hunch.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:09 PM   #15
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Re: rich

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hey k-t,
don't wanna hijack, but if you can help, maybe others may benefit too so i am just putting here rather than on a p.m.

here's the thing:
i just installed sct/bama 87 tune on my 04 gt. it REALLY woke the car up but i am having a little of that mild 'backfiring' myself. it occurs at higher revs in every gear (least noticeable in 5th) when letting off gas a little, not under hard acceleration. like i said car is running superb and strong but i figured this might not be good, or it may be nothing(normal). the tune (according to previous owner of handheld, and verified with bama) was written for just a cai (and 4.30 gears, which i corrected).

NOW i do also have a 70mm bbk t/b and a stack racing plenum installed. (as you may recall, my catback and midpipe too come soon, and plugs and cop's some time after that done). i would have thought with added air, i'd be runnin' a little leaner, not richer?

SO, for this tune anyway (still haven't tried the others), and before having tune updated, should i consider changing the spark timing or altering the mixture a little. these appear to both be adjustable options. if answer leaning toward yes, i'll fire up my unit and see what they are both set at.

thanks-
j.v.

p.s. my gut says the exhaust, and (maybe) plugs alone may clear this up, and nothing would need to be altered, but just a hunch.
That is a very good question to ask, and I'd be happy to answer it the best I can. So the way I understand it is, you have a CAI, plenum, and a 70mm TB, but that's pretty much it? And from what I understand the car pops a little bit when letting off of the throttle? The popping is due to you running rich, and yes, a good exhaust system will definately help clear this up. Headers would be the best thing to do to help. I completely understand the thinking that more air would lean out the engine, and this is true if we didn't have a computer and MAF. What's happening right now in your car is you have a lot more air than the computer is used to coming in and the PCM is trying to keep the a/f ratio in a good range, but it sounds like it's getting a little over worked. It's trying to add as much fuel as possible to keep you from being lean and probably does a pretty good job, but when all of the sudden you let off the throttle, then it's still putting out a good amount of fuel except that there is a lot less air coming in which causes you to run a little rich and it pops in your exhaust. I hope I explained that well enough to make sense.. A good set of plugs will help reduce the popping, but it's not 100%.. you'll still need a properly sized full exhaust set-up to completely get rid of it, and then of course re-tune for the upgrades. My biggest issue I have right now with your set-up is the TB and plenum. Another factor to consider is that by opening up all that space to allow more air to flow into the engine, you're reducing velocity into the engine which is highly needed to help mix with the fuel better which in turn would cause a more complete burn. This in turn would tell your pcm that you have a good burn and it wouldn't necessarily try to add so much fuel for the amount of air coming in through the MAF. Since you already have it in and all that, your best bet would be to do exhaust, followed very closely by a good set of plugs and coils. At that point you'll obviously re-tune, and then there are some really nice, and pretty inexpensive things you can do to harness all that power and use it to it's full potential. I hope all this helps, and if you still have questions, feel free to ask!!
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:49 AM   #16
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Re: rich

or i could just not let off the throttle! seriously, thanks for response and makes sense.

what did you mean your biggest issue w/my setup was the t/b and plenum? is that to say a re-tune right now for the t/b and plenum addition would help the situation?

also, at end of your reply you said "some inexpensive things to do to harness..."; you mean u-d pulleys, or gears, an aluminum driveshaft, new flywheel and clutch, or an upgrade to suspension?

if i'm close to what you may be suggesting, seems to me could be getting a little more costly?!! maybe you have some other (less costly) ideas?
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:09 AM   #17
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Re: rich

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or i could just not let off the throttle! seriously, thanks for response and makes sense.

what did you mean your biggest issue w/my setup was the t/b and plenum? is that to say a re-tune right now for the t/b and plenum addition would help the situation?

also, at end of your reply you said "some inexpensive things to do to harness..."; you mean u-d pulleys, or gears, an aluminum driveshaft, new flywheel and clutch, or an upgrade to suspension?

if i'm close to what you may be suggesting, seems to me could be getting a little more costly?!! maybe you have some other (less costly) ideas?
What I meant by saying I had an issue is that those would not be upgrades that I would do until much later when I actually needed them because the negative effects of them outweigh the power gaining benefits of them at this point. Once you get a full exhaust, then they will be worthwhile to have, but you're still going to want to do more before you are actually going to need a larger than stock TB and an intake plenum. However... if you can get a re-tune for these upgrades, than that would also help out your situation.

I was relating to UD pullies, and gears. A light weight flywheel, and driveshaft are also fairly "inexpensive" upgrades that can reduce rotational mass that causes parasitic loss of power. A good synthetic oil will also help. A suspension set-up will also definately help get the power to the ground, and can be pieced together, but tends to be a little more costly. Other areas to look at include saving weight. A rear seat delete? Racing seats? Moving the battery to the trunk to help weight transfer.. These will all help if only just a little (probably not even very noticeable at first). Removing weight, rotational mass, and parasitic drag all increases fuel economy, and increases the 'feel' of the power you have at hand (power to weight ratio). It really all just comes down to how far you want to take things, when you can afford to do them, and your overall end view of how you want your car to turn out. For starters in your situation though, plugs, coils, and an exhaust set up and then a re-tune will certainly help you with your 'rich' condition and you'll notice a difference in the character of your car. After that.. I would suggest the pullies, gears, driveshaft, clutch/flywheel, rear seat delete, and racing seats. If you're looking for more power.. after the gears I would look into possibly nitrous or a power adder, but the power adder is much more expensive. It really depends on your budget and what you are looking for each step of the way..
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Old 04-05-2012, 08:34 AM   #18
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Re: rich

k-t,
thx again... yeah don't know if i'm going as far as seat delete (although nobody ever sits in the rear of the car) or even battery move. i do sometimes keep my bowling gear in the trunk though!

as i'm not fixing to race it, as time and funds permit, most of what you (and I myself) mentioned is on the list(save forced air) but only time will tell. the car is basically my toy(or baby) and a hobby. i like the experience and learning (and cursing at steel, and scraped knuckles!)

thanks for the tips! will keep you abreast as to how it goes(and if need any more advice)

---------- Post added at 07:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 AM ----------

oh, and forgot to mention... already switched to synthetic motor oil last oil change, and will never go back.

'nuf said.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:46 PM   #19
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Re: rich

kt, another question(problem) if you will.... downloaded the 89 tune, and filled tank with 89. i now am pinging pretty good under load. gas could be bad, but guessing not. remember i also have the 70mm and a plenum which are not taken into account for on the tune. i called bama, he said prob running lean because not tuned for the air. was hoping could change spark somewhat to alleviate symptom??? also, fyi a/f can ONLY be edited for WOT so i cannot change that at all.

ps. i did switch back to the custom(not stock) 87 tune and was better, but still pinged a little(which makes me wonder maybe IS the gas, as was running great on last tank of 87)
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:27 PM   #20
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Re: rich

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kt, another question(problem) if you will.... downloaded the 89 tune, and filled tank with 89. i now am pinging pretty good under load. gas could be bad, but guessing not. remember i also have the 70mm and a plenum which are not taken into account for on the tune. i called bama, he said prob running lean because not tuned for the air. was hoping could change spark somewhat to alleviate symptom??? also, fyi a/f can ONLY be edited for WOT so i cannot change that at all.

ps. i did switch back to the custom(not stock) 87 tune and was better, but still pinged a little(which makes me wonder maybe IS the gas, as was running great on last tank of 87)
Yep, that pinging you're hearing is minor detonation happening.. my advice would be to get a bottle of octane for this new tank of gas, or ****** your spark timing anywhere from 2 to 4 degrees. The problem with pulling back the timing is you'll feel like you've lost a ton of power. Your car will simply feel sluggish. It is possible that you did run into a lean condition if you're way out of bounds from your PCM's view. I know we talked about being rich, but if you're just way beyond the capabilities of your PCM right now, it may be giving it all the fuel it can and it's just not enough.. each day is different depending on pressure and air temperature and what not. So yeah, at this point.. would recommend getting a bottle of octane. Sounds like you probably got some not-so-high quality fuel. Bama should do tunes for life.., i would ask them to write you a tune to include your TB and plenum.. then you shouldn't have to worry about it anymore..
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Old 04-06-2012, 04:50 AM   #21
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Re: rich

i already tried 2 degrees in all rpm ranges; little if no change, and yes seemed sluggish. i will try the octane boost today. and yes i know about the free tunes, but i will have to buy in first; remember i bought my tuner used

thanks again and will let you know later-
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