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Old 05-14-2012, 01:50 AM   #1
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Question 2V vs 4V

Ok, we all know that 4V's have more power than 2V's naturally. But what I don't understand is that an 03-04 Cobra which mind you is stock Supercharged and has 390 hp to the wheels I believe (rough estimate)
But people are taking a 99-04 2V Gt with maybe a few basic bolt-ons, supercharging it and making about 360-370 rwhp on like 8 psi..Now a little 2V Gt is making nearly as much power as a 4V Terminator Cobra with an S/C. So my point is, since the Cobra comes supercharged, slapping an S/C on the Gt is only fair, but for them both being supercharged, I would expect the Cobra to make way more hp than the Gt, but with both running about the same psi, the little 2V Gt makes damn near the same amount of power as the Cobra..?

I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, I've just been watching a lot of dyno videos lately and I've noticed that the little 2V's don't fall far behind the 4V's power when both of them are supercharged at around the same psi.

Someone please explain this to me?
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:51 AM   #2
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Re: 2V vs 4V

They are basicly the same setup but the cobra as a few valves too it and with fordged crank and etc. If you were to dyno tune a stock cobra its would have at least 415 and not 390. Reason I have found the rated them at that was insurance reasons but most of the bone stock 03-04 cobras I have seen dyno tuned were pushing 410-420, nows thats based on what i have seen. Doesn matter either GT or cobra if you can make the engine take in more air and breath better with or without a charger they will run and produce numbers. Thats pretty much the short story or answer to your question, if you really wanted the long version im sure you could write a book.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:08 AM   #3
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Don't get caught up in peek hp numbers, what makes a car fast is TQ. The 4v make more low end TQ and those heads flow more air so they don't run out of breath as easy with higher RPM. The 4v will always respond better than a 2v to the same modifications. The heads on our cars will always be the weak link but if you have the money trickflows heads are the closes thing out there to leveling the playing field but were still not going to see 4v flow numbers from them.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:23 AM   #4
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Lol no actually trick flows flow more air then 4v heads. And actually 2v mustangs actually make better low end power then the 4v. It's just the design of the heads. You can actually make more power on a 2v with a kenne bell on 9 psi then a cobra at the same psi on the stock eaton but that's because the eaton is actually kind of a pile of junk. They are notorious for heat issues and terrible efficiency. But just because it make like 5 more hp doesn't mean it wins. The 4v will carry that peak and near peak power for much much longer. The only way around that is aftermarket heads PERIOD. Forget the fact that they have forged internals because for the price you can buy a Mach 1 or another cobra and forge it and do all the necessary upgrades that is needed to go with a supercharger and you'll still be less then a terminator. I like the terminator but I think they are terribly over priced. Aside from the supercharger, cams, internals and some minor upgrades such as fuel pump and injectors its the same car as a Mach 1 which you can get for 10-15k cheaper depending on the miles.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:40 AM   #5
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Re: 2V vs 4V

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Lol no actually trick flows flow more air then 4v heads. And actually 2v mustangs actually make better low end power then the 4v. It's just the design of the heads. You can actually make more power on a 2v with a kenne bell on 9 psi then a cobra at the same psi on the stock eaton but that's because the eaton is actually kind of a pile of junk. They are notorious for heat issues and terrible efficiency. But just because it make like 5 more hp doesn't mean it wins. The 4v will carry that peak and near peak power for much much longer. The only way around that is aftermarket heads PERIOD. Forget the fact that they have forged internals because for the price you can buy a Mach 1 or another cobra and forge it and do all the necessary upgrades that is needed to go with a supercharger and you'll still be less then a terminator. I like the terminator but I think they are terribly over priced. Aside from the supercharger, cams, internals and some minor upgrades such as fuel pump and injectors its the same car as a Mach 1 which you can get for 10-15k cheaper depending on the miles.
ok, I got a question I have a 00 gt that has a stroker motor with fully CNC ported heads, comp cams stage ( dont the specs because im on deployment) I alread have a good low end TQ but I want a charger to put up on the top end you think Vortec type charger is what i need?
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:06 AM   #6
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Yea that's what I'd look into. That or a turbo. A centrifugal supercharger (vortech, procharger) create more top end and less low end then a twin screw (kenne bell, whipple). The twin screws give you that high pitch whine. A turbo is the same as a centrifugal except it runs on exhaust gases and doesn't require power to run so it's 100% efficient. From what I've seen they are cheaper but harder to install. I've never really looked into a turbo kit. They make massive top end power and give a whistle sound and a loud hiss from the waste gate. But in my opinion twin screws are the best. They are more efficient then the vortech style and give you the bottom end the others won't. Superchargers are instant power and turbos require a turbine to spool up which will delay their actual effect on your power. If your looking at just drag builds anything will really do but if you have that massive bottom end the top end won't matter as much.

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

Lol I'm not an expert or anything so don't take just my advice. It's a big deal to decide on what your gonna on your engine so do your research and make sure you know what your getting yourself into.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:21 AM   #7
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Re: 2V vs 4V

TOT4- Good information, you might not be a expert but you have good advice. I did my research and I decided I wanted to go with the hair dryer type setup because of the top in power so I had the motor built for it. What i mean by that, I had the engine built to create low in power with the supercharger making up for the top end. I have everything in place far as Mass air and etc so I just want a charger I could bolt right up, dyno tune, and then drive. A few friends, the race shop that built the engine, and I do beleave its going to put out some intresting numbers.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:25 AM   #8
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Re: 2V vs 4V

The 03/04 cobra is rated at 390/390 at the flywheel, not rear wheels. Ford does not rate its vehicles at the wheels only at the flywheel. With that being said they are under rated by a little bit. They generally make between 360rwhp give or take on average stock so if you do the math that puts them around 420/415 at the flywheel.

It does seem odd that an 03/04 cobra at 8psi makes only 400hp while a 2v GT with 10psi will make about the same. The reason is compression. The 03/04 Cobra has an 8.5:1 compression ratio and the Eaton supercharger is a root style and is not as efficient as the centrifugal style most 2v guys go with.

Compare the TQ curve of an Eaton 03/04 cobra to a 2v gt with a Vortech/Procharger and you can see a difference there.

Finally, the 03/04 cobra will take FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more abuse than the 2v can. The 2v peaks at about 450rwhp the 03/04 cobra peaks at about 600-650+ due to the much stronger motor.

The 4v 03/04 motors also have a super heavy iron block vs the Aluminum 2v GT in the newer ones. Higher compression means it cant take as much boost but the boost it gets does more as it has less area~ the 4v can take 20-25psi in the 03/04 version of the motor for example with forged internals.

its very easy/cheap to take a 03/04 cobra and move it from 360rwhp to 460-475rwhp (pulley, intake, exhaust, tune is all thats needed)

Here is my dyno graph with the above mods
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:45 AM   #9
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And the difference between the 4V Mach1 and the Cobras is the Mach has 10:1 compression and an aluminum block. So you shouldn't really slap a supercharger on a Mach cause you'll kill it dead pretty quickly. People say you can with low boost, like 5PSI. But, how many dudes do you know who could live with just 5PSI boost? Once you get the taste, ya know.
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:16 AM   #10
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Ill run any 500hp 2v in my 500hp 4v and show em tail lights all the way down the track
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:36 AM   #11
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I've seen a couple forged lower end mach 1s running 15+lbs of boost. That would be one fun car. But that would require a new trans as well... $$$$$$$$ 10k investment but hell... it would still be close to the same money as a good condition terminator but with a fresh build and new trans... oh and also, shaker ftw.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:29 AM   #12
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I would still take the terminator over a blown 2V GT for most of the reasons lowflyn listed. Forged internals and blower and 4V head out of the box. Drop 2k and make 100 more hp easily.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #13
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I should never have posted here, I just keep editing and editing. I love a terminator and could go either way, but believe it is a wash over what is better per dollar. If one bought a GT and wisely spent the difference in price between it and a modded Cobra, they're going to be right there with it, dare I say faster. We're talking forged guts, heads, intercooled boost, suspension, a tranny, and you already have a log axle...
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:58 PM   #14
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Re: 2V vs 4V

consider resalve value, a slightly modded 03/04 cobra to get to 500hp vs a highly modded 2v.... guess what the 2v will not bring nearly as much EVER even with mods (which dont add value). Just another angle to consider as well as normal depreciation will be much faster for a normal GT vs the 03/04 cobra.
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Old 05-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
consider resalve value, a slightly modded 03/04 cobra to get to 500hp vs a highly modded 2v.... guess what the 2v will not bring nearly as much EVER even with mods (which dont add value). Just another angle to consider as well as normal depreciation will be much faster for a normal GT vs the 03/04 cobra.
A good point, seeing as I already have no plan to ever get rid of my GT because i'd take such a hit on it.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:29 PM   #16
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Re: 2V vs 4V

I saw a few videos on youtube where a guy took a 2V Gt and put some trickflow heads on it, he made 330 rwhp with just heads, now if he put a blower on there, it would be even crazier. I'm not saying that the 2V is better or more powerful than a 4V, I'm just saying that there is hope for the little 2V's. They can be just as big and bad as the 4V's with heads/cams to level the playing field. And yeah who wouldn't take a "Terminator" over a Gt??? Not just for the stock power, but mainly for the name the car has, it's legendary and anyone who knows anything about Mustangs would take a Terminator over a Gt. But for the money you spend on a stock Gt in good shape (say $7k) that leaves you with ALOT of saved money to build it with. Versus spending $20k+ on a stock Cobra in good shape.

There is a sweet Gt for sell in my area right now for $6k with 80k original miles, It's owned by an elderly man I've known for a long time. That leaves you with more than enough money to make the Gt a monster that no cobra/vette/lambo will wana mess with and still have a little to fill up the tank lol
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #17
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That post is almost a whole page in mobile. You should remove the quote
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:36 PM   #18
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Re: 2V vs 4V

Better?
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:38 PM   #19
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Better?
Thanks! And yeah the best thing about a GT is the price.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentOrange

A good point, seeing as I already have no plan to ever get rid of my GT because i'd take such a hit on it.
FTW...never plan on getting rid of mine either...and not because of resale value, just cause I love my gt!
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by FORDGT14
I saw a few videos on youtube where a guy took a 2V Gt and put some trickflow heads on it, he made 330 rwhp with just heads, now if he put a blower on there, it would be even crazier. I'm not saying that the 2V is better or more powerful than a 4V, I'm just saying that there is hope for the little 2V's. They can be just as big and bad as the 4V's with heads/cams to level the playing field. And yeah who wouldn't take a "Terminator" over a Gt??? Not just for the stock power, but mainly for the name the car has, it's legendary and anyone who knows anything about Mustangs would take a Terminator over a Gt. But for the money you spend on a stock Gt in good shape (say $7k) that leaves you with ALOT of saved money to build it with. Versus spending $20k+ on a stock Cobra in good shape.

There is a sweet Gt for sell in my area right now for $6k with 80k original miles, It's owned by an elderly man I've known for a long time. That leaves you with more than enough money to make the Gt a monster that no cobra/vette/lambo will wana mess with and still have a little to fill up the tank lol
He got to 330 hp to the wheels with just heads???
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Old 05-14-2012, 03:36 PM   #22
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Re: 2V vs 4V

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He got to 330 hp to the wheels with just heads???
The enitre trickflow top end, which runs around like $3k
Here's a link to another vid I just found, if you look around, there are plenty more vids of N/A 2V's making 330rwhp

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Old 05-14-2012, 03:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORDGT14

The enitre trickflow top end, which runs around like $3k
Here's a link to another vid I just found, if you look around, there are plenty more vids of N/A 2V's making 330rwhp

Nice! Ima look into this
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:00 PM   #24
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Re: 2V vs 4V

Ok folks we all love Mustangs and I got the GT because Im not made of money, I would love to have a cobra but I still love my GT as much as I would love a Cobra. Lets all just be glad we have Mustangs in the first place! I have a 2v and Im plannig on working it up rather than just giving up and trading for a faster car. (Im hopeing to steel a 5.4 out of a van and stick my heads on it, the 5.4 is rated at 50 more torque the the 4.6)
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by MustangGT02
Ok folks we all love Mustangs and I got the GT because Im not made of money, I would love to have a cobra but I still love my GT as much as I would love a Cobra. Lets all just be glad we have Mustangs in the first place! I have a 2v and Im plannig on working it up rather than just giving up and trading for a faster car. (Im hopeing to steel a 5.4 out of a van and stick my heads on it, the 5.4 is rated at 50 more torque the the 4.6)
5.4l would be a step backwards
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Old 05-14-2012, 04:57 PM   #26
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5.4l would be a step backwards
Depends what you do with it. Forged bottom end, good heads, and a bit of planning. With the right compression you could make a na monster or a blown beast!
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:32 PM   #27
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Depends what you do with it. Forged bottom end, good heads, and a bit of planning. With the right compression you could make a na monster or a blown beast!
I've heard of people having trouble with skirts on the pistons caused by the longer stroke and they can't get the rpm. Bigger bore and more rpm seems to be a better route.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #28
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Lol please explain to me how swapping for a motor with more displacement would be a downgrade in the long run. It has all the same capabilities as the 4.6 except for the advantage of more displacement. And if you get a 4v 5.4 your able to make a pretty mean engine without FI. Look at the 2000 cobra r. They dropped a 4v 5.4 engine in it and it was said to have 385 at the crank but it actually had that and more at the wheels and it was naturally aspirated. There is no replacement for displacement.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:47 PM   #29
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Lol please explain to me how swapping for a motor with more displacement would be a downgrade in the long run. It has all the same capabilities as the 4.6 except for the advantage of more displacement. And if you get a 4v 5.4 your able to make a pretty mean engine without FI. Look at the 2000 cobra r. They dropped a 4v 5.4 engine in it and it was said to have 385 at the crank but it actually had that and more at the wheels and it was naturally aspirated. There is no replacement for displacement.
Google it, theirs plenty of threads out their on this topic. The only reason I know is cause I was thinking of doing it and did the leg work to find out why not. Big bore is more displacement.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:49 AM   #30
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I've heard of people having trouble with skirts on the pistons caused by the longer stroke and they can't get the rpm. Bigger bore and more rpm seems to be a better route.
That would easily be solved with a good forged rotating assembly. Sure a stock rotating assy will blow up eventually but that's not what I would do. I would love a 5.8 block out of the new shelby. Ditch the blower and bump the compression to 11.4:1 and have a quadcam 351 modular! That would be awesome!!!
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaBluedude

That would easily be solved with a good forged rotating assembly. Sure a stock rotating assy will blow up eventually but that's not what I would do. I would love a 5.8 block out of the new shelby. Ditch the blower and bump the compression to 11.4:1 and have a quadcam 351 modular! That would be awesome!!!
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