Headers - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 1996-2004 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 05-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Tylercribbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Region: Arkansas
Posts: 35
Headers

There are so many different kinds of headers out there. What is the best one that makes smoothest sound and best results in tq and hp? I already have x-pipe with catback exaust system.
Tylercribbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-16-2012, 04:40 PM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
LAS97GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spring Lake
Region: North Carolina
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylercribbs
There are so many different kinds of headers out there. What is the best one that makes smoothest sound and best results in tq and hp? I already have x-pipe with catback exaust system.
Good question. I'm in the middle of the road too. I'll subscribe to see the results. Trick flow seem to be the way to go. Cost wise the are expensive.
__________________
---Las97GT
LAS97GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
runvsofthisbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Region: Florida
Posts: 606
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAS97GT View Post
Good question. I'm in the middle of the road too. I'll subscribe to see the results. Trick flow seem to be the way to go. Cost wise the are expensive.
He was referring to headers not heads.

MAC is what I like due to economic reasons and previous use, but the best gains are always going to come in the form of a long tube header due to the fact that they can expell moremgas quicker. Kooks I've heard are phenomenal and American racing but I can't justify their products due to them being in excess of $1,000!
__________________

2002 True Blue V6 to GT Vert
16.1@86 as an auto 3.8
2.15 60', 9.3@77, 14.4@96 as a 5spd SOHC 4.6
runvsofthisbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-16-2012, 09:23 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by runvsofthisbull

He was referring to headers not heads.

MAC is what I like due to economic reasons and previous use, but the best gains are always going to come in the form of a long tube header due to the fact that they can expell moremgas quicker. Kooks I've heard are phenomenal and American racing but I can't justify their products due to them being in excess of $1,000!
+11.
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 09:27 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
McNassty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 600
Shorties are good for low RPM power and long tube are for high RPM power
McNassty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 09:33 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNassty
Shorties are good for low RPM power and long tube are for high RPM power
I think you got that a little backwards!.. Lol Long Tubes, in most applications, show some power gains starting down low and increasing throughout the RPM range!.. Shorties and Mid Length usually start their gains mid rang then increase on up!..
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 09:36 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
McNassty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 600
Sorry watching Family Guy and not really paying attention to my typing
McNassty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2012, 10:10 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNassty
Sorry watching Family Guy and not really paying attention to my typing
I'll forgive you this time!!... But only because your watching Family Guy!.. Hahahahaha
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 10:12 AM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
McNassty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 600
Lol! It was a good one, and you were right. I was meaning to put high end and low end but I was really into Family Guy and wasn't thinking, LMAO!!!
McNassty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 10:31 AM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNassty
Lol! It was a good one, and you were right. I was meaning to put high end and low end but I was really into Family Guy and wasn't thinking, LMAO!!!
Ya I was thinking that is what you were meaning!..
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 12:44 PM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
I think you got that a little backwards!.. Lol Long Tubes, in most applications, show some power gains starting down low and increasing throughout the RPM range!..
When I put my Long tubes on thats where I noticed a difference...Far as brand, not sure about mac never used them but stay AWAY from flowtech they sux....you will thank me later. I like bbk, hooker, hedman, and pacesetter. Im going to tell you like I've been told about headers, you get what you paid for. IMO, stick with a brand that has the ball sock at the collective instead of the weld on. I ordered bbk for for the cobra and will be installing then soon as I get home so check in from time to time in a few months lol.
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
I think you got that a little backwards!.. Lol Long Tubes, in most applications, show some power gains starting down low and increasing throughout the RPM range!.. Shorties and Mid Length usually start their gains mid rang then increase on up!..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
Ya I was thinking that is what you were meaning!..
He was right. Shorty headers net you LOW end NOT top end.

Unless the 99-04 2V is different from 3V S197s or LS series engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernstang00 View Post
When I put my Long tubes on thats where I noticed a difference...Far as brand, not sure about mac never used them but stay AWAY from flowtech they sux....you will thank me later. I like bbk, hooker, hedman, and pacesetter. Im going to tell you like I've been told about headers, you get what you paid for. IMO, stick with a brand that has the ball sock at the collective instead of the weld on. I ordered bbk for for the cobra and will be installing then soon as I get home so check in from time to time in a few months lol.
Headers are great. Cheaper brands will still gain great power. Just study and choose. There are differences.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii View Post

Headers are great. Cheaper brands will still gain great power. Just study and choose. There are differences.
Yea I know they will still give you the gain, its the headache of blown gaskets, install, and etc that will give on different brands. I do agree you should research the brand you are wanting to buy.
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 01:35 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by southernstang00 View Post
Yea I know they will still give you the gain, its the headache of blown gaskets, install, and etc that will give on different brands. I do agree you should research the brand you are wanting to buy.
Oh I know. Let me make it clear that I was adding to your post. Not actually replying to it I agree with your original statement 100%
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 02:34 PM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii View Post
Oh I know. Let me make it clear that I was adding to your post. Not actually replying to it I agree with your original statement 100%
its cool, I know you was...
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 02:52 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

He was right. Shorty headers net you LOW end NOT top end.

Unless the 99-04 2V is different from 3V S197s or LS series engines.

Headers are great. Cheaper brands will still gain great power. Just study and choose. There are differences.
Sorry bro but you are wrong!.. You need to look at some actual dyno sheets!.. Long tubes will net you gains starting low and going through the top end!.. Mid Lengths and Shorties start their gains mid range then up!.. Technically all three net you "big gains" at top!.. But Long Tubes will give you some low end gains too!.. Sorry but you need to do some actual research on them!...
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
Sorry bro but you are wrong!.. You need to look at some actual dyno sheets!.. Long tubes will net you gains starting low and going through the top end!.. Mid Lengths and Shorties start their gains mid range then up!.. Technically all three net you "big gains" at top!.. But Long Tubes will give you some low end gains too!.. Sorry but you need to do some actual research on them!...
I did. Shall I link all the references to my statement?
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 03:18 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

I did. Shall I link all the references to my statement?
Go for it!.. I can do the same!.. Lol
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 07:25 PM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
Go for it!.. I can do the same!.. Lol
Ford Racing Shorty Headers M9430-s197 - Ford Mustang Forums

WWW.S197FORUM.COM

WWW.S197FORUM.COM

WWW.S197FORUM.COM

WWW.S197FORUM.COM

WWW.S197FORUM.COM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musclemustangsfastfords
The long-tube headers, like the shorties, are also available in chrome (PN BBK 1641) and ceramic coated (PN BBK 16410). With the long-tube headers and mid-pipe in place, Grieves strapped our GT down for one last spin of the rollers. True to form, the long-tube combination yielded yet another 4 rwhp and 8 rwtq, bringing our running totals to 397 rwhp and 378 lb-ft of torque. More noticeable, though, was the big increase in torque from 3,650 to 5,500 rpm. Around 6050 is where the shorty completely drops off even under

Clearly we made the most power with the long-tube headers and matching mid-pipe. However, this is not a perfect world. As the graph shows, low-end torque was reduced slightly. It was recovered higher in the rpm range, but it must still be noted.



Read more: 2005 Ford Mustang GT Headers & Mid-Pipe Tests - Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Magazine


At about 2800 and 3600 The shorty makes more low end TQ. Otherwise the LT made more power higher and higher. The shorty eventually dipped under even stock at around 5700. At around 6050 you see the shorty header drop off worse and worse. This is important because when having a tune, your rev limit will be higher.

It should be noted that this was on a S/C car. The added force will bring up low end numbers for both types of headers.

It should also be noted that BBK is a 'tuned' shorty I believe which makes it at the very least a quality header.



In this dyno of a BBK Shorty VS BBK LT header. The SHORTY has higher gains from the onset in HP and TQ and after 5300 or so the LT takes over in HP & TQ and the BBK Starts to drop out. The LT posting higher gains in the upper RPM.

This was done on a car with a CAI and tune with a TB.



In this picture the shorty makes the most torque at around 2600 RPM down low. What this Dyno DOES show is that the argument that shorties are useless is not necessarily true because they, while lower than the LTs, they are still gaining a decent amount over the range over stock.







In these last 2 images a stock S197 with a LT and no on the upper dyno, while the increases are both good, the LT hold the numbers for a more linear curve and slower decline. The decline RPM is within 200 RPM but the Shorty fell harder.

The shorty Dyno was with CAI, UDP and Tune. SO with the additional mods, the peak gain was 21 hp & 25 lb/ft while using the shorties WITH cai, WITH pulleys and WITH a tune.

The Long tube and catted pipe non tuned dyno on an otherwise stock S197 was 19.7 average HP gain and 23.4 lb/ft and peaking 23.4 hp and 28.3 lb/ft.

There were dynos showing losses in shorties but I wanted to give the shorty a fair shake since BBK and JBA have put a lot of time into them to make power. They are viable options but for optimal HP a LT will always out perform. Now for a quick bang for buck shorties, mainly JBA and BBK are worth the money and install saved.

Going Turbo be a problem with LTs if that is a goal, otherwise a S/C would cure that problem.



In this photo, between 3k and 4k the shorty lost torque and eventually producing less torque from 4k to 5300.



In this image, from 3700 to 5400 the Shorty lost HP.

Now, in all the links and info the shorty did not always make MORE torque down low but in ALL the dynos it started declining hard anywhere as early as 3500 to cut off.

The one constant in all these dynos is the LT made more power every time at higher RPM than the Shorty.

Now, if the LT money is worth the extra ponies to people, that is their choice. They both are better than stock.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 09:44 PM   #20
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Bro you just helped to prove my point!.. Lol. Short tube and tuned length starting to make power at about 2,200 RPMs!.. (I'm sure that is what you posted. Sorry I'm on my iPhone) That being the case, 2,200 would put you at about the beginning of your Mid Range for power output!.. Considering the fact that these motors generally are not making power past about 6,000 RPMs!..

So like I said before!.. Short Tube and Tuned Length headers start making power at about Mid Range on up!..
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 10:02 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
Bro you just helped to prove my point!.. Lol. Short tube and tuned length starting to make power at about 2,200 RPMs!.. (I'm sure that is what you posted. Sorry I'm on my iPhone) That being the case, 2,200 would put you at about the beginning of your Mid Range for power output!.. Considering the fact that these motors generally are not making power past about 6,000 RPMs!..

So like I said before!.. Short Tube and Tuned Length headers start making power at about Mid Range on up!..
I will succeed that it was a little closer but 2200 is not the middle of 6k. The shorties generally made less up top and more middle or low. Which is what I said. Although, you DID say 'and up'.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2012, 10:10 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

I will succeed that it was a little closer but 2200 is not the middle of 6k. The shorties generally made less up top and more middle or low. Which is what I said. Although, you DID say 'and up'.
No 2,200 isn't the exact middle!.. Lol 3,000 is!.. But your Mid Range would put you between 2,000 and 4,000!... Assuming your max output is right at 6,000 RPMs!..

I think both of us are saying pretty much the same thing!.. Just worded a bit different!..
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 02:15 AM   #23
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

Def like the dyno sheets you posted and helped me make my mind on staying with Long tubes all the time. Now, hoping I see the same out come on my cobra when I get them on there.
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 06:04 AM   #24
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
No 2,200 isn't the exact middle!.. Lol 3,000 is!.. But your Mid Range would put you between 2,000 and 4,000!... Assuming your max output is right at 6,000 RPMs!..

I think both of us are saying pretty much the same thing!.. Just worded a bit different!..
I'll agree to that. OP just has to decide of the LT price is worth the extra ponies.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 06:49 AM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii

I'll agree to that. OP just has to decide of the LT price is worth the extra ponies.
Personally if I had the cash on hand right now I would LTs!..
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 07:08 AM   #26
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

My Pypes LT rub my column but I remedied that already. Other than that, It dropped me a little over .3
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 08:11 AM   #27
Registered Member
Regular
 
runvsofthisbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Region: Florida
Posts: 606
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii View Post
My Pypes LT rub my column but I remedied that already. Other than that, It dropped me a little over .3
I'm hoping for a similar drop like that as well. Hoping for mid-upper 13's on a good 93 tune with just CAI, STS, full exhaust (MAC LT, Prochamber, flows). Well see. One more week and the conversion is done.
__________________

2002 True Blue V6 to GT Vert
16.1@86 as an auto 3.8
2.15 60', 9.3@77, 14.4@96 as a 5spd SOHC 4.6
runvsofthisbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #28
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by runvsofthisbull View Post
I'm hoping for a similar drop like that as well. Hoping for mid-upper 13's on a good 93 tune with just CAI, STS, full exhaust (MAC LT, Prochamber, flows). Well see. One more week and the conversion is done.
I think you got it as your car stock can nail a high 13 so with your mods a low 13 should be possible.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:31 AM   #29
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

well after all the stuff I have done to the GT along with the supercharger im hoping the LT really help me out alot, cuz motor alone I noticed a big difference.

I hoping for the same effect on the cobra but a few mods to it thoug.
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 09:59 AM   #30
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeland
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,699
Send a message via AIM to Borii
Re: Headers

If you are S/C, LT give huge gains.
__________________
SOLD - 06 GT 371WHP/332WTQ


Sold - 1998 Camaro SS
Sold - 2001 Audi S4
Borii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 10:38 AM   #31
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eturner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Michigan
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borii
If you are S/C, LT give huge gains.
+11
Eturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2012, 12:29 AM   #32
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,291
Re: Headers

good, cuz i have them on the gt and it will be getting a S/C when I get back...its going to be a beast lol
southernstang00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2012, 11:11 PM   #33
Registered Member
Regular
 
LAS97GT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Spring Lake
Region: North Carolina
Posts: 681
Re: Headers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eturner View Post
+11.
Oh, ok. I take it that means manifold headers. If so, I took the pain of installing BBK equal length shortys. Painful, but nice. Sweet pain. No, I did not consider LTs because I was just learning. LTs require some planning and I had investments to preserve. LOL. Thanks all.
__________________
---Las97GT
LAS97GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 1996-2004 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


» Like Us On Facebook



02:51 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.