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Old 06-13-2012, 07:31 PM   #1
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Motor

How much would it cost to get a motor completely rebuilt so I was pushing at least 450 rwph with no supercharger
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:45 PM   #2
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Not gonna see 450 without a power adder
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_gt
How much would it cost to get a motor completely rebuilt so I was pushing at least 450 rwph with no supercharger
You won't get 450 rwhp out of the 4.6 or probably even 5.4 without some kind of power adder. So, since the supercharger is the only power adder you mentioned to leave out, that leaves nitrous or turbos. I'm not sure on figures for rebuilding a motor because I haven't had to do this. I'm sure others who have will chime in. But, if you are trying to avoid a power adder and reach 450 rwhp, you are going to have a very hard time getting there without spending some serious cash.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:01 PM   #4
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How much rwhp could I get gettin it rebuilt with everything for racing cams pistons everything

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

I plan on doing a supercharger or turbo to but I want to have a strong motor with alot of hp too
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:23 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by 2000_gt
How much would it cost to get a motor completely rebuilt so I was pushing at least 450 rwph with no supercharger
Get a forged shortblock from a reputable builder and I would get it with a .020 over on the bore and a set of trickflow heads from modular head shop would be a great start. Talk to then about what you want to do with it and they'll help you out. With that your looking at 6-7 grand but you won't regret it.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_gt
How much rwhp could I get gettin it rebuilt with everything for racing cams pistons everything

---------- Post added at 09:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 PM ----------

I plan on doing a supercharger or turbo to but I want to have a strong motor with alot of hp too
Bout 350hp if you wanna stay boost friendly
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:55 PM   #7
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Best thing is to look up livernois performace all they build is mod motors good price and fully blue printed and will last you a long time dont peice something together trouble waiting to happen right parts will give you best bang for buck look on you tube or google good place
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:58 PM   #8
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IMO you should Decide where you want to go with your build building a N/A engine and building a supercharged engine are 2 different things. Heads, cams, overbore, compression ratios, fuel system set up's all this effects both builds different ways. Decide what you want and how much power and build for that, the most I ever heard of a N/A 2v put down was 425 rwhp I believe I saw that on muscle mustang and fast ford, and that was a very expensive build upwards of 10,000
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:10 PM   #9
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Re: Motor

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Originally Posted by 96stangracer View Post
Best thing is to look up livernois performace all they build is mod motors good price and fully blue printed and will last you a long time dont peice something together trouble waiting to happen right parts will give you best bang for buck look on you tube or google good place
They do LS motors and Dodge as well.

---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

You can make 400+rwhp on a 2v, but it will req some compression, nasty cams, super awesome intake, Big Bore and Stroker. Build would look something like this

Big Bore Stroker (3.7"x 3.75")
Flattop pistons with TF 2v reliefs
Stroker H/I beam Rods
Stroker crank
Trick Flow 44cc heads
Some Serious duration cams...260*+@.050
Edelbrock or Trick Flow intake
Supporting CAI
ARH or Kooks Longtubes...1 3/4" 3" collectors, 3" X and dumps

You would have to be willing to spin this thing to 7500-8k+ Your compression with this combo, given a stock deck height and stroker pistons would put you in the 13:1 range...so E85 or race gas all the time. But it would come very close to the power you want to make. I just did this build for a friend/customer, everything except the stroker part and I plan on him making 400+rwhp. or very close. his comp and cam is a little less. So can it be done. Yes it can...but it will cost you. I hooked him up with friend freebies, but I think he had over 8k invested in it.

Other option would be to look at an accepted 320-340rwhp, for a fraction of the price. Or move to a 32v and look to make 400rwhp on an almost stock longblock

Good luck either way you choose
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:36 AM   #10
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Completely dumb question but not familiar with the term NA.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Bama28
Completely dumb question but not familiar with the term NA.
Naturally aspirated, basically making power without a supercharger/turbo/nitrous. Also called all motor.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:59 AM   #12
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Dang, I read it wrong. I thought it said 350. NA 450 rw not happening.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jlt00bluegt
Dang, I read it wrong. I thought it said 350. NA 450 rw not happening.
Hey I am looking at putting a MMR long block in my car next year. I really like the 4.75L 750 series 2v they have. I checked out the video link when I look at them I think I remember seeing one making 393 to the wheels, and thats all motor...
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Las0mbra

Naturally aspirated, basically making power without a supercharger/turbo/nitrous. Also called all motor.
Thanks that just cleared it all up. Still learning come of the abbreviations.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bama28

Thanks that just cleared it all up. Still learning come of the abbreviations.
Modular mustang racing! They hold the record for the fastest modular cars in the world right now. " many have caught on but few have caught up" I like that phrase they use...
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Old 06-15-2012, 04:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright

Hey I am looking at putting a MMR long block in my car next year. I really like the 4.75L 750 series 2v they have. I checked out the video link when I look at them I think I remember seeing one making 393 to the wheels, and thats all motor...
That's a stroker with stage 3 ported heads, crazy aggressive cams and an eddy intake. And it is still not over the 400 mark. OP if you want over 400 your best bet is to go FI. Cheaper and more efficient in the long run
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:50 AM   #17
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Re: Motor

^ Actually a NA motor is more efficient at making power...super you are just forcing it down. NA is more impressive than boost. Any ****** can put rods and pistons in a motor and throw boost at it...

It takes careful planning and parts to make power NA. And more respect comes with it.. plus, the more power you make NA, the more power you can make FI...

---------- Post added at 11:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------

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Dang, I read it wrong. I thought it said 350. NA 450 rw not happening.
With the new TF R heads...I bet it does happen.

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 PM ----------

Quote:
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That's a stroker with stage 3 ported heads, crazy aggressive cams and an eddy intake. And it is still not over the 400 mark. OP if you want over 400 your best bet is to go FI. Cheaper and more efficient in the long run
'puts flame suit on'

Ive seen many many MMR builds make less than stellar power. Ive seen a motor, like mine, more compression, BB and stroker, with more cam make just under 400rwhp. MMR all over it.

MMR might have some good deals and some decent products here and there. But Ill never have one of thier motors. Ive seen more problems then I care to deal with.

So with that...just because MMR didn't make the good power...doesn't mean it can't happen.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:41 AM   #18
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Check out Crpblue96 on the modular ford forum. The last numbers I saw was 425 or so with a carbed 2v and I think he's running in the 9's now.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverEnuff
^ Actually a NA motor is more efficient at making power...super you are just forcing it down. NA is more impressive than boost. Any ****** can put rods and pistons in a motor and throw boost at it...

It takes careful planning and parts to make power NA. And more respect comes with it.. plus, the more power you make NA, the more power you can make FI...
.
I agree building a big power NA motor is more impressive by a long shot. But it is not more efficient. Building a huge NA motor is SUPER expensive compared to FI, also, the NA motor will have much worse gas mileage, require higher octane of fuel due to compression ratio and it will have to be spun way higher in the rpm band. So while it is more impressive, it isn't close to being more efficient. And that's why many "retards" just like myself have chosen to go FI. I spent $3000 and got almost 400hp and still get 23-24mpg in my DD. That money wouldn't even get me a set of TFS heads and a set of aggressive cams.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:52 AM   #20
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It's all in what you want to do with it. In short we all have one thing in common and that is we like modding our cars. So we should be respectful of each other and try to help newbies and oldtimers out with making the best choices to achieve their goals.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jlt00bluegt
It's all in what you want to do with it. In short we all have one thing in common and that is we like modding our cars. So we should be respectful of each other and try to help newbies and oldtimers out with making the best choices to achieve their goals.
+1 ,000,000,000 we all have different cars and ideas and some of us are not made out of money, you should build for what impressed you , your the only one who needs to be happy,
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:27 AM   #22
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Seems people think na means carb no na means nautrally aspirated thing like turbos,superchargers not carbed
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:39 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by 96stangracer
Seems people think na means carb no na means nautrally aspirated thing like turbos,superchargers not carbed
You are right N/A is nautrally aspired , it means a stock setup" without " power adders, such as supercharges and turbos there are no carbs
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:05 AM   #24
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Carburetor and fuel injected can be NA doesn't necessarily mean stock. NA just means the engine is drawing the air in.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jlt00bluegt
Carburetor and fuel injected can be NA doesn't necessarily mean stock. NA just means the engine is drawing the air in.
+1 any engine Taft is NA pulls I the air itself, a where FI is literally forced induction the turbo or super draw in the air and multiply it so basically FI will bring in more air then a NA motor could on it's own
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Old 06-16-2012, 11:28 AM   #26
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Ok so the built motor you want with a lil50 shot will get ya there no problem right? 450+ hp???
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Old 06-16-2012, 12:57 PM   #27
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Ok so the built motor you want with a lil50 shot will get ya there no problem right? 450+ hp???
I would say no more than a 125 wet shot on stock block and intake. You run into it puddling in the intake and then it goes boom. If you wanted to push it that far I would look into a direct port system. The problem you have with that is lean spikes but a good tuner might be able to fix that. I personally wouldn't push more than 400 or so on stock block cause the TQ your going to pick up will be amazing.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:07 PM   #28
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Re: Motor

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I agree building a big power NA motor is more impressive by a long shot. But it is not more efficient. Building a huge NA motor is SUPER expensive compared to FI, also, the NA motor will have much worse gas mileage, require higher octane of fuel due to compression ratio and it will have to be spun way higher in the rpm band. So while it is more impressive, it isn't close to being more efficient. And that's why many "retards" just like myself have chosen to go FI. I spent $3000 and got almost 400hp and still get 23-24mpg in my DD. That money wouldn't even get me a set of TFS heads and a set of aggressive cams.
I htink you miss understood 'efficient'. The NA motor is more efficient over the boosted motor. in IE it makes more power NA (take the blower off the motor). Efficiency is how easy the air is pulled into the motor and pushed out. The easier that is done...the more efficient the motor is.

Also building a NA motor isn't SUPER expensive if you know what you are doing. For 3-5k INCLUDING the price of a take out 32v motor, I can have a 370-380rwhp motor. NA. I know, cause ive done it, and if I could do it again, Id make 10+more rwhp. No annoying blower belt dust, Belt slippage, broke belts, super charger oil lines and returns, or changing oil in the blower. Pipes, intercooler, upgraded maf and injectors along with a fuel pump. Just motor work, and maybe injectors depending on how much power you make. And that combo, knocked down 23-24mpg doing 80+mph, with 4.30s...and it was fast. Hung with cammed 402rwhp C5, beat a cammed WS-6, beat a D1 procharged 06 GT, making 530rwhp...bad. So blowers and a rwhp number isn't anything. Its about how the combo is set up. Also 11:1 comp doesn't req expensive gas...92/93 octane is fine.

And I apologize for the '******' comment. Just how it came out...didn't mean anything by it. Ive had blowers and turbos before...just keep coming back to NA. And love it.

Ppl can make good power on a 2v NA for pretty cheap if they do research. 32v bottom end, PI heads...ported, cams, with a TF or edelbrock intake...and thats good for 340+rwhp...for cheap. 500 shortblock, heads most already ahve...porting can be done for 600-1200 depending...and 500 for cams...thats pretty cheap for a 340rwhp combo NA...all youd need is injectors.
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Old 06-17-2012, 11:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Jlt00bluegt

I would say no more than a 125 wet shot on stock block and intake. You run into it puddling in the intake and then it goes boom. If you wanted to push it that far I would look into a direct port system. The problem you have with that is lean spikes but a good tuner might be able to fix that. I personally wouldn't push more than 400 or so on stock block cause the TQ your going to pick up will be amazing.
No no no I mean a person could reach their goal of 450+ with the built motor the want. Like build it up with strong stuff, heads, valve train, and hot cams all that good stuff you know. Then put maybe a fifty shot to it. They could easily reach that 450 mark? I mean because of course your not gonna get N/A so you could cheat a lil, and yes I know it's not all motor and it's still cheating to get that goal you want...
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Old 06-17-2012, 12:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright

No no no I mean a person could reach their goal of 450+ with the built motor the want. Like build it up with strong stuff, heads, valve train, and hot cams all that good stuff you know. Then put maybe a fifty shot to it. They could easily reach that 450 mark? I mean because of course your not gonna get N/A so you could cheat a lil, and yes I know it's not all motor and it's still cheating to get that goal you want...
If 450 is your goal and your on a tight budget nitrous is the way to go. Plus all you need to do is change your rods and pistons the stock crank is good for 550-600 hp. I don't look at it as cheating. My goal is the same as yours, I want to make about 450-500. How you get there is up to you. I looked at nitrous a few times but it's not the route I decided to go.
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Old 06-18-2012, 12:35 AM   #31
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Re: Motor

Nitrous will get you there easy. If you don't mind spraying and getting a good tune/fuel system to spray safely.

If I were to do a 16v build for the 450hp goal and cheap...it would look like this..

32v shortblock Mark VIII (300-500)
Ported PI heads
Custom ground cams in the 230-240* @.040 range
Edelbrock or TF intake (TF will give substantial mid range and low end TQ over the edelbrock
ARH longtubes
3" X pipe and 3" dumps

That combo should make 320-330+rwhp. Run on pump gas on a good safe tune. That puts you in the 370-380hp range...add a small 50-75 shot and there is your goal.

Thats prob about the cheapest way you can do it, besides just having a stock motor, and spraying 150hp at it. lol.
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