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Old 07-12-2012, 07:30 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I wonder if there is a way to tell by connecting to the OBD2 port? There seems to be a ton of info provided, as long as you have what is needed to read it. I can ask Bama what they think as something like this (timing adj by chain) surely has happened as long as the 4.6L has been around.
I would try contacting them. Me and trojan are going off general knowledge with lack of experience on the 4.6. Hopefully you get it resolved . If not it could be an engine killer.
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:36 AM   #107
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I figure if it pings in the stock tune (not chipped) today, then we must assume that something else could causing the problem.

I certainly wanna thank you both for digging in to help out a homey!
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:00 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
I figure if it pings in the stock tune (not chipped) today, then we must assume that something else could causing the problem.

I certainly wanna thank you both for digging in to help out a homey!
I agree
And your welcome
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:07 AM   #109
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Ok there is no timing adjustment for the 4.6L SOHC or the DOHC. It's all handled by the ECU. Now if you have a set of MSD adjustable cam gears then you can adjust some. Idk how much exactly but some. Need to know exactly what you got on your cams and if they are stock or aftermarket. Also on your sprockets on your cams as well.
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Old 07-12-2012, 08:15 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95v686gt
Ok there is no timing adjustment for the 4.6L SOHC or the DOHC. It's all handled by the ECU. Now if you have a set of MSD adjustable cam gears then you can adjust some. Idk how much exactly but some. Need to know exactly what you got on your cams and if they are stock or aftermarket. Also on your sprockets on your cams as well.
The car has just over 38k miles. Do you think someone would do that, given that the ECU's can be programmed?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:20 AM   #111
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Could be. Does it look like the valve covers have been off?
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Old 07-12-2012, 09:26 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95v686gt
Could be. Does it look like the valve covers have been off?
No, it looks pretty un-touched. Do you think if it was connected to a scanner at a shop, do you think they could tell by looking at any readings?
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:17 AM   #113
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Talked to Bama. They asked about my spark plugs. I have the Motorcraft SP-433's which I think are iridium. They said that the platinums and iridiums often cause pinging on the 4.6L that is tuned. They said I should try copper plugs, like Autolite. These are only a buck 99, so that's good.

I mentioned that I was wondering about whether the previous owner had modified the timing via timing gears, etc. They said it was unlikely just based on the fact that you can do all that with a tuner without touching tools. I guess the jury is still out, for now, on that.
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Old 07-12-2012, 10:23 AM   #114
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Re: Knock & Ping question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
I wonder if there is a way to tell by connecting to the OBD2 port? There seems to be a ton of info provided, as long as you have what is needed to read it. I can ask Bama what they think as something like this (timing adj by chain) surely has happened as long as the 4.6L has been around.
I just don't know for sure.


Contact BAMA and ask them their opinion and if their chips depend on the timing being set to stock factory specs. I cannot think of any other reason for it to detonate like that unless their chip is just advancing the timing to much.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #115
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No problems at all on the stock tune. I bought some Autolite copper plugs and I'll put them in tonight - if the engine cools off enough. It certainly should be hot enough to bring out the pings, wouldn't ya say?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:17 PM   #116
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Sounds like definitely a tunes issue. Your tune probably shouldn't be that close on the edge that it causes pinging.

You loose a good amount of power with stock tune?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:29 PM   #117
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Sounds like a tune issue, sounds like the air/ fuel ratio is messed up a bit air, fuel, and timing all have to be dialed in with the tune, did you talk to bama about doing any data logging?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
Sounds like definitely a tunes issue. Your tune probably shouldn't be that close on the edge that it causes pinging.

You loose a good amount of power with stock tune?
Yeah, it sure feels like it. It revs much faster with the tune.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360
Sounds like a tune issue, sounds like the air/ fuel ratio is messed up a bit air, fuel, and timing all have to be dialed in with the tune, did you talk to bama about doing any data logging?
I've been so worked up about the pinging, I haven't asked yet. I do want to do that.
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:37 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, it sure feels like it. It revs much faster with the tune.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 PM ----------



I've been so worked up about the pinging, I haven't asked yet. I do want to do that.
You really should it will save you the headache they should be able to see what's goi g on right away , usually when are cars start pinging its either to much timing or to much fuel
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:41 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360

You really should it will save you the headache they should be able to see what's goi g on right away , usually when are cars start pinging its either to much timing or to much fuel
Do I need to ask them how to set it up, or can I just select it on the tuner and go?
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:50 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Do I need to ask them how to set it up, or can I just select it on the tuner and go?
You should be able to plug in and do the data logging , then you should be able to email them your results , if any corrections need to be made they will make them and email you a new tune ! I want to clear up my last statement to much fuel will not make the engine ping but not enough of an octane rating will
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Old 07-12-2012, 05:55 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360

You should be able to plug in and do the data logging , then you should be able to email them your results , if any corrections need to be made they will make them and email you a new tune ! I want to clear up my last statement to much fuel will not make the engine ping but not enough of an octane rating will
Yes. And not enough fuel in general will also
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:10 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360

You should be able to plug in and do the data logging , then you should be able to email them your results , if any corrections need to be made they will make them and email you a new tune ! I want to clear up my last statement to much fuel will not make the engine ping but not enough of an octane rating will
Cool, thanks! I'm gonna do that.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang

Yes. And not enough fuel in general will also
Thanks dream!
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Old 07-12-2012, 06:26 PM   #124
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your welcome
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:20 PM   #125
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Changed the plug to Autolite copper 104's last night. Flash back to the 91R tune and well shall see.

The plugs looked pretty good, though they have only been in the car for around 2 months.

Attachment 58903

The plug looked good, but what's up with oil-ish yuk on the threads? The plug tip looked okay so is this a possible head gasket leak?
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Old 07-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #126
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Are you data logging like someone else suggested?

It's hard to tell from the pick but it doesnt look bad enough to be head gasket to me.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamstang
Are you data logging like someone else suggested?

It's hard to tell from the pick but it doesnt look bad enough to be head gasket to me.
I will do that later tonight, possibly the weekend. It looks like that is the ticket.

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------

No pinging today, at least not that I could tell. Now in ready to data log. My a$$ does not feel so puckered up now and I can relax. Whew!
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:31 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

I will do that later tonight, possibly the weekend. It looks like that is the ticket.

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------

No pinging today, at least not that I could tell. Now in ready to data log. My a$$ does not feel so puckered up now and I can relax. Whew!
You said you switched back to the 91 tune correct? And now you don't have anymore pinging? That is good news as far as the pinging goes , when you start data logging make sure you switch back to the 93 tune because that's when you were having your issues
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:34 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360

You said you switched back to the 91 tune correct? And now you don't have anymore pinging? That is good news as far as the pinging goes , when you start data logging make sure you switch back to the 93 tune because that's when you were having your issues
Actually, I had it on the 91 & 93! That's why I was so distraught. I had them make a 91 Racing tune, which would still do it. I hope to move up to 93R if possible.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360

You said you switched back to the 91 tune correct? And now you don't have anymore pinging? That is good news as far as the pinging goes , when you start data logging make sure you switch back to the 93 tune because that's when you were having your issues
he also had issues with the 91.
but still good idea since it was the worst.
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:12 AM   #131
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It's been a couple days since you changed the plugs how's she running? Anymore pinging? Have you been data logging ?
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:08 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rm360
It's been a couple days since you changed the plugs how's she running? Anymore pinging? Have you been data logging ?
She's doing good. No pinging since the change. I was gonna wait until it was back up in the 90's next to data log. What a relief though!
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #133
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So, about a week ago, I noticed I still had some pinging. This was mainly from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th (really bad). I figured this was the best time to data log. Man, that's not easy when it sunny and you can't see the laptop screen Got the sent to Bama and now have a new 91R tune to try. I'll report back tomorrow once I test it out in the heat of the day. Wish me luck!
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:14 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Azure
So, about a week ago, I noticed I still had some pinging. This was mainly from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th (really bad). I figured this was the best time to data log. Man, that's not easy when it sunny and you can't see the laptop screen Got the sent to Bama and now have a new 91R tune to try. I'll report back tomorrow once I test it out in the heat of the day. Wish me luck!
good luck man. hopefully they figured it out.
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Old 07-27-2012, 06:59 AM   #135
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Re: Knock & Ping question

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Originally Posted by LAS97GT View Post
I've had the pinging for a bit. At 93 it started at 3-3.5 K; 81 was bout same. Just got. Good tip on a posible fix since mine is not octane related. Im going to regap my plugs. I use M-craft. Will let you know how it turns out. With the high temps these days I dropped down to 87 and take it slow since its a DD.
regap? you're going to open them a little?

---------- Post added at 05:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:39 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
So, about a week ago, I noticed I still had some pinging. This was mainly from 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th (really bad). I figured this was the best time to data log. Man, that's not easy when it sunny and you can't see the laptop screen Got the sent to Bama and now have a new 91R tune to try. I'll report back tomorrow once I test it out in the heat of the day. Wish me luck!
haven't been on in a while and just saw thread... have similar issues myself.
1. confused: did you say the new 91 tune yielded no pinging, or was that maybe a freak thing/you weren't driving the same. i know pretty much know what will make mine ping a little, and can both avoid it, or duplicate it.
2. so you still have pinging with the new/copper plugs??? you are still using them?
3. have you tried taking a little timing out, or rich-ing the mixture(this only at WOT) manually on the hand held?
4. lastly (for now anyway), by any chance do you have an oversized aftermarket throttle body installed?

Good luck! Give us update, and maybe talk more later-
Joe
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #136
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Re: Knock & Ping question

Welcome back man!

Yup, all the tunes would ping before I changed my plugs to Autolite 104 coppers. First, I asked them to make me a 91 racing tune. This caused pinging too. Then Bama's recommendation was the plug change (from Motorcraft SP433's). Once I changed them, it stopped pinging, so I thought. I must not have had harsh enough conditions outside to reproduce the pinging because it started pinging last week, not from 1st to 2nd oddly. So I asked if we could data log. I still have the Autolite 104's in there with an updated 91R tune that was developed from my data log. So far no pinging, but we'll see this afternoon when it's 90+ outside.

I have not made any adjustments myself. I want to stay conservative, that's why I asked for a 91R tune. I alsways use Shell, but you never know when you have bad gas I was thinking their standard tunes would be pretty conservative. I guess not.

From the pics I've seen, my TB looks stock. I cleaned my IAC a few weeks back, but I think I'm going to buy a new one next payday because it was dirty at the time.

I think regardless if I still have pinging, I believe I better check some things. I plan to check the fuel pressure (need to get a gauge) and the injectors. I think there is a way to inspect, clean, and replace O rings on them. I haven't messed with that before so it will be new and exciting Anything else I should check besides the aforementioned?
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #137
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Re: Knock & Ping question

Azure, I'm a bit late with this, but the "gunk" you saw on your plug threads was probably anti-seize. You should always use it on your plug threads.

I favor the Irridium fine tipped plugs for most high performance uses as it provides a larger spark flame kernel and better ignition in most cases.


However your problem is in ignition timing I believe. See if there is an easy way to adjust your timing like on the older distributor cars. If not I would see if it is possible to replace your crank trigger sensor with an MSD adjustable unit if possible which would give you much better control over your timing.


Sorry I don't know more about these engines and their ignition/timing systems and I may make a stupid statement on occasion , but I'm learning as we go.
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #138
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Well, dang if it still is pinging! I called Bama and told them whats up. They said they don't much of any timing adjustments because the Mach1's are setup for 91 octane stock. I theorized that at the higher speeds, with the shaker connected, maybe there is more air going in and messing up the mix. He said it would try to make the fuel richer up at high RPMs to see if that helps. They will send an update later today.

I gotta run now, but I want to revisit what you mentioned Trojan. I can't up later this afternoon.
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Old 07-27-2012, 01:06 PM   #139
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Re: Knock & Ping question

hey guys,
thanks for getting back... anyway, seems you would be correct about trying again when gets damn near brutal out. it is hot out here today, and i just experienced my pinging 1. dropping gears and accelerating(so definitely 'under load') on the highway 2. pinging just mildly accelerating in first(in others words, just gently pulling away from a light) and also 3. more pinging climbing a hill in 5th, and then 4th(so again, under load).

i am currently running the 87 street tune, and had taken 1 degree of timing out globally, and went +2 on mixture(which is only at WOT). just for kicks i am going to switch it to 3 degrees retarded today and see what happens.

I have spoken to bama about this before in past and while
gas can always be blamed, don't think we're all getting crappy gas all the time.
also, i had been told to try the copper, or colder range, plugs and possibly a new fuel filter. i don't believe either will work, unless several people say they've done these things firsthand and alleviated the symptoms.
what i do believe, is there is just too much timing in the tune. i've run all 3 tunes, and experience some degree of pinging occasionally with all. when i switch back to stock, no pinging(understandably) and frankly, car still goes pretty darn good.

all this being said, i guess maybe just let me know how you make out later. i can get ngk plats and a new fram fuel filter pretty cheap, so who knows maybe i'll give it a try. otherwise, and only after i get my mac prochamber installed, maybe just get a new 93 tune written, or take to sct dyno tuner. till later-
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Old 07-27-2012, 09:11 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Welcome back man!

Yup, all the tunes would ping before I changed my plugs to Autolite 104 coppers. First, I asked them to make me a 91 racing tune. This caused pinging too. Then Bama's recommendation was the plug change (from Motorcraft SP433's). Once I changed them, it stopped pinging, so I thought. I must not have had harsh enough conditions outside to reproduce the pinging because it started pinging last week, not from 1st to 2nd oddly. So I asked if we could data log. I still have the Autolite 104's in there with an updated 91R tune that was developed from my data log. So far no pinging, but we'll see this afternoon when it's 90+ outside.

I have not made any adjustments myself. I want to stay conservative, that's why I asked for a 91R tune. I alsways use Shell, but you never know when you have bad gas I was thinking their standard tunes would be pretty conservative. I guess not.

From the pics I've seen, my TB looks stock. I cleaned my IAC a few weeks back, but I think I'm going to buy a new one next payday because it was dirty at the time.

I think regardless if I still have pinging, I believe I better check some things. I plan to check the fuel pressure (need to get a gauge) and the injectors. I think there is a way to inspect, clean, and replace O rings on them. I haven't messed with that before so it will be new and exciting Anything else I should check besides the aforementioned?
AZ, you running live wire?
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