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Old 07-14-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
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So, I have bump steer. CC plates question

I've noticed since I bought my Mach1 back in Feb'12 that I had bump steer. Any time I hit cracks, bumps or un-even pavement - she jerks in a different direction...

Can I install caster-camber plates at home and make the adjustments needed to get the geometry back in order? Also, what are the best quality and most reliable CC plate set out there?
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:12 PM   #2
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I used camber bolts instead of plates because I didn't want to drill new holes on the shock towers on my Bullitt. You may want to look into those if you ever want to return your Mach1 to stock. As for the bump steer, you might need to pick up Steedas bump steer kit, this corrects your suspension geometry after lowering it.
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt1075
I used camber bolts instead of plates because I didn't want to drill new holes on the shock towers on my Bullitt. You may want to look into those if you ever want to return your Mach1 to stock. As for the bump steer, you might need to pick up Steedas bump steer kit, this corrects your suspension geometry after lowering it.
Cool! I will take a look at the camber bolts setup. I would rather not drill into my baby either. Do you need to have the camber bolts or caster-camber plates for Steeda's bump steer kit?
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Cool! I will take a look at the camber bolts setup. I would rather not drill into my baby either. Do you need to have the camber bolts or caster-camber plates for Steeda's bump steer kit?
If your tires are wearing fine I wouldn't think you would just need the bump steer kit, but I'm not that low, so I haven't had a problem with bump steer. The H&R race springs only lowered my car an extra half inch in front and quarter inch in the rear, but my Bullitt was already lowered 3/4 inch from the factory so there wasn't a huge change in my suspensions geometry.

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt1075

If your tires are wearing fine I wouldn't think you would just need the bump steer kit, but I'm not that low, so I haven't had a problem with bump steer. The H&R race springs only lowered my car an extra half inch in front and quarter inch in the rear, but my Bullitt was already lowered 3/4 inch from the factory so there wasn't a huge change in my suspensions geometry.
Oops, I ment you would just need the bump steer kit. Not wouldn't.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt1075

If your tires are wearing fine I wouldn't think you would just need the bump steer kit, but I'm not that low, so I haven't had a problem with bump steer. The H&R race springs only lowered my car an extra half inch in front and quarter inch in the rear, but my Bullitt was already lowered 3/4 inch from the factory so there wasn't a huge change in my suspensions geometry.

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------



Oops, I ment you would just need the bump steer kit. Not wouldn't.
Yeah, mine might only be ~1/2" lower than stock too. I think the Bullitts and Mach's were both lowered from the stock GT's. I'm going I see if I can scan the barcode attached to my springs to see exactly what they are.

Thanks bro!
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Yeah, mine might only be ~1/2" lower than stock too. I think the Bullitts and Mach's were both lowered from the stock GT's. I'm going I see if I can scan the barcode attached to my springs to see exactly what they are.

Thanks bro!
I just looked your stock springs up, and the Mach 1's have the same spring rates as the Bullitt springs, but they were only 1/2 inch lower than stock, compared to the 3/4 inch drop of the Bullitt springs.
http://www.hawaiiperformancemustangs...?topic=14492.0
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt1075

I just looked your stock springs up, and the Mach 1's have the same spring rates as the Bullitt springs, but they were only 1/2 inch lower than stock, compared to the 3/4 inch drop of the Bullitt springs.
http://www.hawaiiperformancemustangs...?topic=14492.0
On the Mach1 registry, they say 600lb Helical coil front and 250lb Helical coil back. Both rubber insulated, unique linear rate. Is that what you have. I have heard the Mach's were 1/2" shorter than stock GT's.

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:37 PM ----------

I scrolled down on the registry website and they are the same and say the as you mentioned in height drop difference.

I wonder if the previous owner bought the same springs as you did? I hope I can get a good scan on the attached bar code on the springs. They are not a special color, like blue, etc. I'll find out.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:12 AM   #8
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I'm not sure what these springs are. They could be stock. The passenger front spring had a tag with MCH 3R33-5310-CA on it. Searches on google were not clear. Most searches on google said it was part of a Ford Handling Kit 5400-A. Has anyone heard of this kit or these springs?
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:52 AM   #9
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Bump steer is a misleading term, it refers to play in the steering wheel, left and right of center. Commonly caused by lowering 1.5" or more. Chances are slim to none you have it if not lowered.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:32 AM   #10
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That's what I'm trying to determine. I'm not convinced its lowered yet. It will bottom out on speed bumps in apartment complexes if i don't go at an angle. This and that it will jerk left or right, depending on what it is; bump or un-even pavement, etc. makes me wonder if it's lowered.

Could something in the power steering cause this? Nothing looks suspect underneath, no damaged boots on the rack, etc.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:38 AM   #11
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Just looking at your pics, I'm thinking you're still riding on the factory Mach 1 springs. But I'm just comparing to stock Mach 1 pics.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:43 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullitt1075
Just looking at your pics, I'm thinking you're still riding on the factory Mach 1 springs. But I'm just comparing to stock Mach 1 pics.
Yeah, I never thought so either. I beginning to think I'm still stock. I got half and half when I searched the web for that part number.

I guess I should have my power steering rack looked at. When I took the wheel off, there was no play, so I don't think any joints are bad.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:52 PM   #13
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Re: So, I have bump steer. CC plates question

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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Yeah, I never thought so either. I beginning to think I'm still stock. I got half and half when I searched the web for that part number.

I guess I should have my power steering rack looked at. When I took the wheel off, there was no play, so I don't think any joints are bad.
Bump steer kits are not good for daily drivers, offset rack bushings fix the issue with lowered cars.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:05 PM   #14
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Its looking like I have factory springs so maybe I've got an issue with my steering rack...?
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vNomad

Bump steer kits are not good for daily drivers, offset rack bushings fix the issue with lowered cars.
What's the negative of a bump steer kit on a DD? And do they sell offset bushings specific to that, or would I have to find one appropriate?
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:13 PM   #16
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Re: So, I have bump steer. CC plates question

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What's the negative of a bump steer kit on a DD? And do they sell offset bushings specific to that, or would I have to find one appropriate?
no boots and or grease to protect the metal from daily road conditions. just as spherical rear end bushings are not idea for DD. And yes you can get offset bushings.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...w=1036&bih=602
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:54 PM   #17
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The Mach1's (and Bullitts) were lowered with springs from the factory. I wonder if the used any methods for handling bumpsteer? Many around here say you should need anything unless your lowered 1.5+. They could be right, but about when your suspension starts to wear? I should take a look at my bushings, etc. to see if they are loose. It's not bad, mind you, it's just noticeable. What do you guys think?
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
The Mach1's (and Bullitts) were lowered with springs from the factory. I wonder if the used any methods for handling bumpsteer? Many around here say you should need anything unless your lowered 1.5+. They could be right, but about when your suspension starts to wear? I should take a look at my bushings, etc. to see if they are loose. It's not bad, mind you, it's just noticeable. What do you guys think?
What exactly the issue. Typically 1.5 isn't that bad on the and doesn't throw off the steering. The rivets on the stock plate can be removed for more adjustment. Its when people go 2 or more when it becomes an issue. Also a car that has bad wheel bearings and or ball joints can also make you feel bunp steer.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:15 PM   #19
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Uneven pavement and certain bumps will make it take off in a different direction. Mostly, you can feel the pull on the steering wheel. Ball joints are checked by moving the wheel top and bottom when the weight is off of it, right? Or is that wheel bearings?
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Uneven pavement and certain bumps will make it take off in a different direction. Mostly, you can feel the pull on the steering wheel. Ball joints are checked by moving the wheel top and bottom when the weight is off of it, right? Or is that wheel bearings?
Wheel bearings..
Checked air pressure at all 4 corners?
Also tire wear is normal and even at all 4 corners?
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:24 PM   #21
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Wheel bearings..
Checked air pressure at all 4 corners?
Also tire wear is normal and even at all 4 corners?
I'll check that tonight. I'm staggered so it's possible that I'm not too even on wear. Can performance tires themselves have grab on uneven surfaces?
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:58 PM   #22
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Tires then selves can cause this. Mine was something like that before I got new shoes for her. With the weight off the wheel you move the wheel back and forth holding top and bottom. To check the ball joint use a long prybar and lift between the spindle and a-arm to see if it seperates. Your car is stock right meaning stock suspention right? I don't thing ur springs are the issue or the rack. I leaning on one of the 3 things mentioned.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

I'll check that tonight. I'm staggered so it's possible that I'm not too even on wear. Can performance tires themselves have grab on uneven surfaces?
Also remember the road is not flat and a lot of them have dips from trucks and high use. This makes you tires pull because because your tire patch is wider than the dip. Happens all the time and with tires that are worn it becomes more noticable
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad
Also remember the road is not flat and a lot of them have dips from trucks and high use. This makes you tires pull because because your tire patch is wider than the dip. Happens all the time and with tires that are worn it becomes more noticable
^This might be it, really. My tires have about till next spring, so they're pretty worn. The fronts are 245's. The last mustang I had in 07, was a fox that had 225's. I'll check the bearings and such tonight too. Thanks Nomad
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:50 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vNomad

no boots and or grease to protect the metal from daily road conditions. just as spherical rear end bushings are not idea for DD. And yes you can get offset bushings.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...w=1036&bih=602
Thanks for the link. I gotta check it out and maybe this will go on with subframes.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:53 AM   #25
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Re: So, I have bump steer. CC plates question

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Thanks for the link. I gotta check it out and maybe this will go on with subframes.
No problem, A set of offset bushings and camber bolts are way way cheaper than getting bump steer kits and camber plates. People forget that, alot of the parts that they sell for suspension and such are meant for track use. They even say half the time in small print for off-road use only. But they will sell it to anyone with the cash. I have a friend that has an 87 GT with T-tops. He has spent close to 11k with buying the car and putting in MM camber plates, tubular control arm set, UPR K Member kit, Staggered FordGT 18in styled rims, 3.73 gears, MM tower brace and other little odds and ends. Yet NO engine mods!!! To me that is insane, its a weekend non track use driver. But because the kids are doing it on the forums and in the magazines he had to do it. I myself rather spend the cash where needed if needed. And to top it all off he things that his 87 would beat my 02. I told him that someday he'll become a great fiction writer.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
^This might be it, really. My tires have about till next spring, so they're pretty worn. The fronts are 245's. The last mustang I had in 07, was a fox that had 225's. I'll check the bearings and such tonight too. Thanks Nomad
Azure I was thinking... dont molest that Mach. If you want power or something add a procharger, but dont start changing parts to it and such, those are rare cars and shouldn't be molested like GT's get. I see that to much on these forums when Mach 1 owners just destroy there cars... I'll say though a good way to change the ride on your car is getting a pair Bullitt springs. I have an issue from 03 of 5.0 and fast ford. They did an article with motor trend, putting the Mach 1 vs Bullitt to see how they stacked up against each other and a 99 cobra. Theses numbers are crazy but here they are.

Mach 1 Bullitt Cobra
1/4 times 13.19@106.7 13.59@102.4 13.62@105.2
0-60 times 4.70 5.15 5.25
Slalom 63.5 66.0 67.1

It goes to say that the bullitt was plushier than the cobra(had BBK springs) but firmer than the Mach and had a better street ride. So food for though.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:21 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vNomad

No problem, A set of offset bushings and camber bolts are way way cheaper than getting bump steer kits and camber plates. People forget that, alot of the parts that they sell for suspension and such are meant for track use. They even say half the time in small print for off-road use only. But they will sell it to anyone with the cash. I have a friend that has an 87 GT with T-tops. He has spent close to 11k with buying the car and putting in MM camber plates, tubular control arm set, UPR K Member kit, Staggered FordGT 18in styled rims, 3.73 gears, MM tower brace and other little odds and ends. Yet NO engine mods!!! To me that is insane, its a weekend non track use driver. But because the kids are doing it on the forums and in the magazines he had to do it. I myself rather spend the cash where needed if needed. And to top it all off he things that his 87 would beat my 02. I told him that someday he'll become a great fiction writer.

---------- Post added at 11:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------



Azure I was thinking... dont molest that Mach. If you want power or something add a procharger, but dont start changing parts to it and such, those are rare cars and shouldn't be molested like GT's get. I see that to much on these forums when Mach 1 owners just destroy there cars... I'll say though a good way to change the ride on your car is getting a pair Bullitt springs. I have an issue from 03 of 5.0 and fast ford. They did an article with motor trend, putting the Mach 1 vs Bullitt to see how they stacked up against each other and a 99 cobra. Theses numbers are crazy but here they are.

Mach 1 Bullitt Cobra
1/4 times 13.19@106.7 13.59@102.4 13.62@105.2
0-60 times 4.70 5.15 5.25
Slalom 63.5 66.0 67.1

It goes to say that the bullitt was plushier than the cobra(had BBK springs) but firmer than the Mach and had a better street ride. So food for though.
The thing about building up suspension first, and I'll throw brakes in there too even though you didn't mention it, is especially in fox and fox4 platform cars(particularly f0x bodies) is stocktjey have WAY more power then brakes or suspension capabilities, WAY more.

The advantage to building this way is when he gets around to adding power, bolt on's, FI etc he will have a firm platform to build on and most importantly be able to stop and handle the power much easier and safer. If said person takes a notion to track it or drag it it will only be a matter of tuning the suspension.. I know you said is a weekend driver but these ideas about diff tracks will likely strike him lately.
Just my opinion.. I too plan on going this route once ready to mad my car.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:41 PM   #27
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No, I will definitely not molest my Mach. Glad to hear there are others that don't go crazy with the mods, especially on Cobras, Bullitts, and Machs. I'll take a look at the Bullitt springs. I see that they are the same 600lb front and 250lb rear, yet they are another ~1/4" lower than the Machs. Are they shorter springs or is there some other suspension differences going on there?

Man that is totally true about the brakes deadsp0t. My two fox bodies I had were horrible with braking. The Mach1, though, has been the best car at braking I've ever had to date. Must be the larger cobra brakes they came with stock.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by deadsp0t

The thing about building up suspension first, and I'll throw brakes in there too even though you didn't mention it, is especially in fox and fox4 platform cars(particularly f0x bodies) is stocktjey have WAY more power then brakes or suspension capabilities, WAY more.

The advantage to building this way is when he gets around to adding power, bolt on's, FI etc he will have a firm platform to build on and most importantly be able to stop and handle the power much easier and safer. If said person takes a notion to track it or drag it it will only be a matter of tuning the suspension.. I know you said i2s a weekend driver but these ideas about diff tracks will likely strike him lately.
Just my opinion.. I too plan on going this route once ready to mad my car.
Know the guy for 8yrs and no he is not a track guy. My point in the post is that for a daily driver all updrades are not needed. You could argue if you were say 60/40 at the track but in a lot of cases that's not true. Just as those that get a truck with 4wd and full armor underneath yet never go off road. Its a waste and becomes a WOW factor. He now complains that the ride is rough. A break upgrade yes I understand but his case he did a sn95 swap but left his stock master cylinder as well as stock porportioning valve. Someone that drives at a track more that once every few months is wasting. Most US roads will not allow you to actually use the benifits of said parts listed. That's the point spot, its not a need in DD its a want.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Azure
No, I will definitely not molest my Mach. Glad to hear there are others that don't go crazy with the mods, especially on Cobras, Bullitts, and Machs. I'll take a look at the Bullitt springs. I see that they are the same 600lb front and 250lb rear, yet they are another ~1/4" lower than the Machs. Are they shorter springs or is there some other suspension differences going on there?

Man that is totally true about the brakes deadsp0t. My two fox bodies I had were horrible with braking. The Mach1, though, has
been the best car at braking I've ever had to date. Must be the larger cobra brakes they came with stock.
Cobras bullitts and Mach's all came with the same 13in front and 11.7in in the rear. Yes the 86 gt fox had 4cyl brakes I'm aware and the braking is less desirable on a fox but the sn95 brakes even gt's are leaps forward from that. Oh to clear some thoughts up for futures

Attachment 60317

My 87 lx auto that I put 3000 a month on she is METAL!!! (That was a tenacious D reference )


OH!! UPDATE!! The write up is steps away from being done. It will be in PDF format because so far I have 11 pages full of pictures and instruction.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:07 AM   #30
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When I had my new tranny put in on my service warranty, I also had they look at a popping noise I had when it turned the steering wheel. Turns out my steering rack bushings were bad. After driving it last night and this morning, turns out it was the cause of the jerking when I went over certain bumps and uneven pavement. Drives straight and stable now.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #31
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When I had my new tranny put in on my service warranty, I also had they look at a popping noise I had when it turned the steering wheel. Turns out my steering rack bushings were bad. After driving it last night and this morning, turns out it was the cause of the jerking when I went over certain bumps and uneven pavement. Drives straight and stable now.
Well now on to better things right?
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:24 PM   #32
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Well now on to better things right?
Yup!
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