2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup - Mustang Evolution

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Old 07-26-2012, 03:58 PM   #1
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2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

This is a first revision of my write up, there are lots of information please share, dont hesitate to ask questions.

2v to 4v Swap for New Edge
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:57 AM   #2
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Thumbs up Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
This is a first revision of my write up, there are lots of information please share, dont hesitate to ask questions.

2v to 4v Swap for New Edge
Fixed the link enjoy
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:24 AM   #3
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

Bump

Even if you don't plan to swap your engine, this is a good way to familiarize yourself with the 4.6L engine.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure
Bump

Even if you don't plan to swap your engine, this is a good way to familiarize yourself with the 4.6L engine.
You know I had a bad metal on metal squeal that would start when driven hard. Or for some distance. To it to a friend that owned a shop, and fellow mustang fan. We changed clutch, throw out bearing. Still bad. The my transmission started acting up. Soon after that the u joints went bad. Went aluminum but still there was a squeak. We put a chassis ear on it and decided on rear end. So rebuilt it with hd bearings 3.73's (why not). Thought it drove well the car would still develop the squeal. When I changed out my engine I found this.



The pilot bearing was toast. There were three fragments left. Like crumbs. The only thing left was the housing.
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Old 07-31-2012, 02:33 PM   #5
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Did your metal sound go away when the drivetrain got warmed up?
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:16 PM   #6
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Did your metal sound go away when the drivetrain got warmed up?
The noise was noticeable when it warmed up it pulsed with speed.
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Old 07-31-2012, 05:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vNomad

The noise was noticeable when it warmed up it pulsed with speed.
Man, I wonder how long it took to get in that shape?

When you dropped your 4v in, did you install an aftermarket clutch?
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Man, I wonder how long it took to get in that shape?

When you dropped your 4v in, did you install an aftermarket clutch?
Nope there was no need as the clutch was 90% I only put roughly 5k a year on her. Just installed a new pilot bearing. It was caused from and out of balanced driveshaft that went threw the drivetrain.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #9
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Nope there was no need as the clutch was 90% I only put roughly 5k a year on her. Just installed a new pilot bearing. It was caused from and out of balanced driveshaft that went threw the drivetrain.
Come to find out it was the other way around. the pilot bearing was bad letting wobble in the input shaft, thru the trans and out the driveshaft. Unfortunately I have to tear down the trans this winter and do a rebuild. Its going to be fun
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #10
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Come to find out it was the other way around. the pilot bearing was bad letting wobble in the input shaft, thru the trans and out the driveshaft. Unfortunately I have to tear down the trans this winter and do a rebuild. Its going to be fun
That's a bummer indeed. I bought a Ford Racing pilot (and throw out) bearing for mine today.

So, did it score your input shaft too? I guess now is as good a time as any to beef it up a little.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

That's a bummer indeed. I bought a Ford Racing pilot (and throw out) bearing for mine today.

So, did it score your input shaft too? I guess now is as good a time as any to beef it up a little.
The input shaft was ok. Strong it is. As far as transmissions go the 3650 is stout as is. Bad driving is the biggest cause of failure. The trans out the box is 360ftlbs+ . Ford has used a 10 spline input shaft forever. The 390hp termi has a 10 spline as well. I may just upgrade the gears and such haven't decided. Did do 135 this morning in 4th no issues. I may just buy an updgraded one.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post

The input shaft was ok. Strong it is. As far as transmissions go the 3650 is stout as is. Bad driving is the biggest cause of failure. The trans out the box is 360ftlbs+ . Ford has used a 10 spline input shaft forever. The 390hp termi has a 10 spline as well. I may just upgrade the gears and such haven't decided. Did do 135 this morning in 4th no issues. I may just buy an updgraded one.
It would be cool to use the T56 from the Cobras. Would that tranny mate up with either of our blocks?
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

It would be cool to use the T56 from the Cobras. Would that tranny mate up with either of our blocks?
Yeah any 4.6 trans is interchangible. I thought about a T56 but if I go for something other than the 3650 it will be a tko.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:45 AM   #14
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
Yeah any 4.6 trans is interchangible. I thought about a T56 but if I go for something other than the 3650 it will be a tko.
What are the benefits of a TKO versus T56?
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:36 AM   #15
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Simple 600-700ft lbs rating to..... not. The T56 is cool and all but they have two overdrive gears. Guys on here love the 6spd but its for a cool factor for the most. Though it sounds cool and it could be sold to the average guy as a performance stand point on the terminator. But the simple fact is that it was an option because of mpg ratings would have been lower and the 390hp Cobra would have had an extra gas guzzler tax. Car manufactures are using transmissions with more gears to get mpg put of the cars. Look at Chrysler they have an 8spd trans and a V6. Its to keep mpg up. So instead of all that. My choice would be for a performance and durability stand point. Plus the tko bolt to a seperate bell housing which makes engine and or drivetrain work a breeze. And you don't have to change your driveline around to accommodate.
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:32 PM   #16
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Looks like one of these options has gears that are close to the TR3650.




Spline Count
Application Part # Engine TQ(lb-ft.) Housing Clutch. Speedo Input / Output 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rev
GM TCET4616 Any 500 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00
GM TCET4618 Any 600 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 N/A 2.56
GM TCET5009 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET4615 Any 500 No Mech Mech/Elec 10 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00
Ford TCET4617 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET5008 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET5201 Any 500 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:47 PM   #17
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

TKO 500 Ford


This is the info on a Standard Production T56



T-56



Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Looks like one of these options has gears that are close to the TR3650.




Spline Count
Application Part # Engine TQ(lb-ft.) Housing Clutch. Speedo Input / Output 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Rev
GM TCET4616 Any 500 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00
GM TCET4618 Any 600 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 N/A 2.56
GM TCET5009 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET4615 Any 500 No Mech Mech/Elec 10 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00
Ford TCET4617 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .82 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET5008 Any 600 No Mech Mech/Elec 26 / 31 2.87 1.89 1.28 1.00 .64 N/A 2.56
Ford TCET5201 Any 500 No Hyd Mech/Elec 26 / 31 3.27 1.98 1.34 1.00 .68 N/A 3.00


---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

99-04 Mustang TUET1260(T56) 4.6L 450lb-ft 10 spline input 31 spline output

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th rev
2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 .80 .62 3.28

TR3650
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th rev
3.38 2.00 1.32 1.00 .68 NA 3.38

Now the TR-6060 OEM to the GT500 is rated up to 600lb-ft.*

*Info from Tremec and TTC
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:53 PM   #18
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Nosir, I got them from Tremec's website. It's possible the link is wrong. I got the info from the link below on the Tech Specs tab.

http://www.tremec.com/performance/tko.html

---------- Post added at 08:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 PM ----------

The GT500 uses the T56 Magnum
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:00 PM   #19
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

For those that want to upgrade there 3650 and can do the mechanics

YK6 3650 Upgrade Kit

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure View Post
The GT500 uses the T56 Magnum
Nosir you are wrong lol
The Magnum is a fresh new transmission that is made from the TR6060

Tremec Transmissions, Technology in Motion

These are the OEM transmissions

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

The T-56 Magnum is the next generation aftermarket T-56 6 speed manual transmission. It is based on the TR-6060 transmission used as original equipment in 2008 & up Mustang GT-500, Camaro, Corvette, Viper and Challenger.

Features:
700lb-ft Torque Capacity
2.97 or 2.66 1st Gear
Mechanical or Electric Speedometer
26 T Input Shaft 31 T Output Shaft

Price: $2895
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:05 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
For those that want to upgrade there 3650 and can do the mechanics

YK6 3650 Upgrade Kit

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------



Nosir you are wrong lol
The Magnum is a fresh new transmission that is made from the TR6060

Tremec Transmissions, Technology in Motion

These are the OEM transmissions

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

The T-56 Magnum is the next generation aftermarket T-56 6 speed manual transmission. It is based on the TR-6060 transmission used as original equipment in 2008 & up Mustang GT-500, Camaro, Corvette, Viper and Challenger.

Features:
700lb-ft Torque Capacity
2.97 or 2.66 1st Gear
Mechanical or Electric Speedometer
26 T Input Shaft 31 T Output Shaft

Price: $2895
They are the same, though. OEM is known are TR6060, but it's the same tranny as T56 Magnum...

Attachment 68799

It looks like Tremec has some overlapping links and info.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
For those that want to upgrade there 3650 and can do the mechanics

YK6 3650 Upgrade Kit
This is cool. The synchros are sucky in these and an upgrade would be great. If you did this, would pickup other parts too, like input shaft, etc? You should definitely start a thread for that work as it is very interesting to learn about too.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

They are the same, though. OEM is known are TR6060, but it's the same tranny as T56 Magnum...

It looks like Tremec has some overlapping links and info.
Azure being BASED on something is not the same thing. The magnum version is aftermarket with different technologies in it. I understand its a 6speed but it is different.

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

This is cool. The synchros are sucky in these and an upgrade would be great. If you did this, would pickup other parts too, like input shaft, etc? You should definitely start a thread for that work as it is very interesting to learn about too.
I wouldn't change the input shft unless toasted. But the upgrade would be killer. I've changed a few syncros gears are good.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:42 PM   #23
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Azure being BASED on something is not the same thing. The magnum version is aftermarket with different technologies in it. I understand its a 6speed but it is different.
I see what your saying. "I see what you did there" Hehe! Tremec has the info, but it's not an OEM tranny, just based off the 6060. Understood.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:47 AM   #24
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Sounds lil a good tranny for right under $3k. What else would be needed for a swap?
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:01 PM   #25
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Sounds lil a good tranny for right under $3k. What else would be needed for a swap?
If your talking TKO then your need just the 4.6L/5.4L Bellhousing.

4.6 TKO Bellhousing

The TKO trans I listed was for our Mustangs, as there are other versions for 05-10.

If your talking Magnum T56 then...
BA71/72 T-56 Magnum Kit 99-04 Mustang .....3899.00
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:08 PM   #26
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Nomad, have you heard of this?

http://dagostinoracing.com/ford-99-0...oling-mod.html
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:24 PM   #27
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Nomad, have you heard of this?

Ford 99-04 Cooling Mod For 99-04 DOHC
Yes there is much debate over it. Guys in the aftermarket came up with that because they seem to thought that its the overheating that caused the "TICK" that developed in some not All Terminators. People seem to forget that the Blower on top of the engine creates alot of heat. They dont call it the heaton eaton for nothing. I my self dont bother with it. For the simple reason is that they are adding flow to the supply line and not the return line. I have seen many different setups for this mod. (The supply feeds the heater core)



This setup runs to the crossover tube. Not all Terminators got this "TICK" (Loose exhaust valve guide bouncing around). And the reality of it is that the OHC engines in design can be noisy. Most 4.6L's I head have a slight tick to them from the lifters( lash adjusters) anyhow. So people say on thing some say another but I say NA no worries.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:32 PM   #28
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Yes there is much debate over it. Guys in the aftermarket came up with that because they seem to thought that its the overheating that caused the "TICK" that developed in some not All Terminators. People seem to forget that the Blower on top of the engine creates alot of heat. They dont call it the heaton eaton for nothing. I my self dont bother with it. For the simple reason is that they are adding flow to the supply line and not the return line. I have seen many different setups for this mod. (The supply feeds the heater core)

This setup runs to the crossover tube. Not all Terminators got this "TICK" (Loose exhaust valve guide bouncing around). And the reality of it is that the OHC engines in design can be noisy. Most 4.6L's I head have a slight tick to them from the lifters( lash adjusters) anyhow. So people say on thing some say another but I say NA no worries.
Interesting. I have heard of the tick with the Cobras. Just never heard it in person. Thanks for the info!

Speaking of heat, are you running with the factory radiator? Is it a good upgrade?
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:55 PM   #29
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Interesting. I have heard of the tick with the Cobras. Just never heard it in person. Thanks for the info!

Speaking of heat, are you running with the factory radiator? Is it a good upgrade?
GT's Cobra's Mach 1's, etc use the same Radiator. Same part numbers. My temp remains constant at normal temps.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:02 PM   #30
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GT's Cobra's Mach 1's, etc use the same Radiator. Same part numbers. My temp remains constant at normal temps.
Mine too, I was just wondering about getting an aluminum radiator and new fan for mine to try and get rid of the heat soak in the summer. Maybe that really wouldn't help...?
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:14 PM   #31
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Re: 2v to 4v New Edge Swap writeup

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Mine too, I was just wondering about getting an aluminum radiator and new fan for mine to try and get rid of the heat soak in the summer. Maybe that really wouldn't help...?
Your not getting the HEAT SOAK that you think. If you feel frosty add some water wetter. Besides its not the engine that should be cool its the air that comes into it. When making power you need cooler denser air. Not a colder engine. When I switch to force induction Im setting up a CO2 line to my intercooler to discharge it and cool the air that is compressed.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:33 PM   #32
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Your not getting the HEAT SOAK that you think. If you feel frosty add some water wetter. Besides its not the engine that should be cool its the air that comes into it. When making power you need cooler denser air. Not a colder engine. When I switch to force induction Im setting up a CO2 line to my intercooler to discharge it and cool the air that is compressed.
Cool! Would the CO2 mix with, or circulate around cooling the air? Prolly a dumb question.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:49 AM   #33
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Id use it to directly cool the intercooler's body.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:40 PM   #34
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Hey, Whats up? Got a 96 GT - Cobra swap on a 4R07W tranny. With a lopey a** cam and the bolt-ons to feed it... Pulling up to a light It also does what you had a problem with... it hangs around 1100-1200rpm and once I stop it dumps the idle to 800-850rpm. I have a stock TB, and BBK CAI. Stock GT MAF, 19#, and ECU... Planning on going with a MarkViii ECU/MAF/24#... How do I fix the problem? MarkViii TB, IAC? Would that work on my Cobra? I don't want to tune it yet cause I'm not done building my car. And its my DD.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:56 PM   #35
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Hey, Whats up? Got a 96 GT - Cobra swap on a 4R07W tranny. With a lopey a** cam and the bolt-ons to feed it... Pulling up to a light It also does what you had a problem with... it hangs around 1100-1200rpm and once I stop it dumps the idle to 800-850rpm. I have a stock TB, and BBK CAI. Stock GT MAF, 19#, and ECU... Planning on going with a MarkViii ECU/MAF/24#... How do I fix the problem? MarkViii TB, IAC? Would that work on my Cobra? I don't want to tune it yet cause I'm not done building my car. And its my DD.
Have you recently disconnected the battery or power to the PCM? It could be that it hasn't had enough miles to complete the idle re-learn. My Mach has done what you have mentioned^ after I've re-flashed a new tune. I perform the idle re-learn, as stated below, but it has done this the next day once or twice.

Idle Re-Learn

Disconnect NEG from battery for 30min

Reconnect and start car, let idle as engine gets to operating temp. Let it idle a little over a minute

Turn on A/C to MAX, let idle little over a minute, turn off A/C

Then drive the car for at least 10 miles
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