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Old 11-07-2012, 07:18 PM   #1
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in need of a replacement 4.6...but whats the difference?

so many questions that I do not know where to even start?

I have a 2004 GT that i purchased without an engine or transmission (a rebuilder) I am more knowledgeable about the older 302 HO's and know that the 4.6's came with better heads starting in 99' however if I can I would like to put a newer engine in my car if at all possible say out of a 2005 to 2013 if they will fit, what are the differences and what will have to happen to make one of the newer engines work, what are the 5/6 speed trans differences, and what will fit...I know they went to drive by wire at some point, but couldnt i still used a 04 cable/throttle body on a newer engine?
is there a specific section that covers swaps from SN-95 drivetrain to the newer 05 thru 13?
thanks in advance...
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:27 PM   #2
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A new coyote motor has been put into a new edge. Somebody has to have the link. If tour going that route :sickness:. If not that high of budget id say go with a 03/04 Cobra/ mach 4V. I believe the crank may have been updated for these years from a 99/01 Cobra. Also the heads are way better, no ticking like the 99/01 4V. Although I've read the 05 4V heads are the best over 03/04. Just really what your looking to spend. You have the ball in your park, bank account ;}„„„ tranny id go 6 speed. T-56 :like a boss:

---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 PM ----------

Some info going 5.0
Swaping to a 5.0 coyote crate motor
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:34 PM   #3
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I'd love to go DOHC 4V however...I will probably have to just upgrade to a newer 4.6 (used junkyard find) for now then maybe i can go "big" later on. Right now I just want to put a Decent 4.6 in thats not a complete dog...and that will hold up. You know to get it going and all first.

I did not know the Mach had the 4V engine in it as well, I will be on the look out- thanks for that info...

i love the 6 speed idea, what was the first year for a 6 speed in a GT mustang?
will a 99 thru 04 be the basic same transmission as the 05-13? are they a straight bolt in or will it take some doing?
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
I'd love to go DOHC 4V however...I will probably have to just upgrade to a newer 4.6 (used junkyard find) for now then maybe i can go "big" later on. Right now I just want to put a Decent 4.6 in thats not a complete dog...and that will hold up. You know to get it going and all first.

I did not know the Mach had the 4V engine in it as well, I will be on the look out- thanks for that info...

i love the 6 speed idea, what was the first year for a 6 speed in a GT mustang?
will a 99 thru 04 be the basic same transmission as the 05-13? are they a straight bolt in or will it take some doing?
If this is just a Project car then why not start putting the pieces together now for the swap you want!.. You'll save a ton more cash in the end!..
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
I'd love to go DOHC 4V however...I will probably have to just upgrade to a newer 4.6 (used junkyard find) for now then maybe i can go "big" later on. Right now I just want to put a Decent 4.6 in thats not a complete dog...and that will hold up. You know to get it going and all first.

I did not know the Mach had the 4V engine in it as well, I will be on the look out- thanks for that info...

i love the 6 speed idea, what was the first year for a 6 speed in a GT mustang?
will a 99 thru 04 be the basic same transmission as the 05-13? are they a straight bolt in or will it take some doing?
The gt didn't have a 6 speed untill 2011. You want a tremec t 56 if you can get it. But they're pricey. The t3650 is the gt 5 speed and its a good trans too. If you plan on big power look into a tko 500 or 600 which are 5 speeds also. A mach 1 engine will range from 3k - 5k. They aren't cheap but they will work with a GT harness and computer and most accessories. If you could find a 4v engine with a 6 speed ur laughing. It's the route I would go. Only thing to get the t56 jn is a new trans brace and of course a new drive shaft. Unfortunately. I think you would also have to upgrade your rear end to he 31 spline e stuff as well. Note to also need a cobra or mach 1 rad to adequately cool a 4v. As for a newer engine I would stay away unless you have access to cheap fabrication work and lots of cash. I think the new 5.0 swap cost around 14k all in.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
I'd love to go DOHC 4V however...I will probably have to just upgrade to a newer 4.6 (used junkyard find) for now then maybe i can go "big" later on. Right now I just want to put a Decent 4.6 in thats not a complete dog...and that will hold up. You know to get it going and all first.

I did not know the Mach had the 4V engine in it as well, I will be on the look out- thanks for that info...

i love the 6 speed idea, what was the first year for a 6 speed in a GT mustang?
will a 99 thru 04 be the basic same transmission as the 05-13? are they a straight bolt in or will it take some doing?
^^agreed.
Im not sure on the tranny fitment from 99-04 to 05-13.
The first 6 speed year, if im correct, on GT's was 11. 03/04 Cobras have a T56, think machs have the 5 speed 3650. Plus im sure any Cobras 05+ havw a 6. (Or to be correct GT500 ;})
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:04 PM   #7
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yea 14k is not in my budget, nor really is 5k, I would probably just need to find a good used 99 thru 04 engine for now, with whatever manual transmission it comes with. however it doesnt hurt to know in case i run across a 4V engine/trans for cheap.

This car is a project, and will be a driver however i've raced in the past, and i dont want to get to the point where i am having to change out the rearend axles/etc...
I am most certain i will take it to a strip occocasionally, just to see what it will do. I do not however want to get in the habit of breaking parts that i have just installed.
i've owned several mustangs (79 big block coupe,82 GT, 89 GT, 90 GT, 91GT, 94 Cobra and have Never broken a T-5 or engine as of yet...raced quite a bit, even ran nitrous on 5 out of 6 of them. maybe i have been lucky...
thanks for the replys...
anyway,
i just want to get this thing together (it will be the newest mustang i have ever owned) and i appreciate everyone's input.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:22 PM   #8
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Do a 2003-2004 4 valve 4.6 DOHC engine swap


05-09 4.6 are junk
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #9
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2001 Gt with a new 2013 5.0 motor....
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Ryan7racin
2001 Gt with a new 2013 5.0 motor....
And I would do a 4v cobra swap or Mach 1 swap, I wouldn't put another 2v 4.6 in it, while you have the motor out might as well save a few extra bucks and get a really good motor not saying the 2v 4.6 isn't good cause mine is great it's just a weak v8 with weak power only way to get good power is supercharge it.
If I had the money this is what I would do, or a new 5.0 motor.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan7racin

And I would do a 4v cobra swap or Mach 1 swap, I wouldn't put another 2v 4.6 in it, while you have the motor out might as well save a few extra bucks and get a really good motor not saying the 2v 4.6 isn't good cause mine is great it's just a weak v8 with weak power only way to get good power is supercharge it.
If I had the money this is what I would do, or a new 5.0 motor.
Exactly about the 2v

Mach and cobra are same in ways but Mach has higher compression
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:51 PM   #12
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The 2v 4.6 is almost like putting money into a V6 it's really pointless only real power gains we will see if we go FI. If I'm not mistaking the 2v 4.6 is one of the smallest v8s made.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow2V

Exactly about the 2v

Mach and cobra are same in ways but Mach has higher compression
Aren't they both 10? Or even 9.5?
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:12 PM   #14
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The gt didn't have a 6 speed untill 2011. You want a tremec t 56 if you can get it. But they're pricey. The t3650 is the gt 5 speed and its a good trans too. If you plan on big power look into a tko 500 or 600 which are 5 speeds also. A mach 1 engine will range from 3k - 5k. They aren't cheap but they will work with a GT harness and computer and most accessories. If you could find a 4v engine with a 6 speed ur laughing. It's the route I would go. Only thing to get the t56 jn is a new trans brace and of course a new drive shaft. Unfortunately. I think you would also have to upgrade your rear end to he 31 spline e stuff as well. Note to also need a cobra or mach 1 rad to adequately cool a 4v. As for a newer engine I would stay away unless you have access to cheap fabrication work and lots of cash. I think the new 5.0 swap cost around 14k all in.
Radiators are the same for all models. There is no fabrication needed... seriously where does this info come from. Any questions on 4v in a new edge GT check my sig or my sticky. And if you need pics I can share my build photos and vids as well. There is always a mark swap. There are a lot of deals out there . There are tons of options. Give me a yell and I'll be happy to help.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:13 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Ryan7racin
2001 Gt with a new 2013 5.0 motor....
There it is, :sickness:
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:22 PM   #16
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The 2v 4.6 is almost like putting money into a V6 it's really pointless only real power gains we will see if we go FI. If I'm not mistaking the 2v 4.6 is one of the smallest v8s made.
Interesting..... ever heard of a SHO V8? And either its a 2v or 4v its still a 4.6L. There is a lot of power in a 2v with work. And it will cost less then the 4v. Now there is a lot more potential with the 4v but to compare a 2v to a v6 is just plain silly. If your budget minded then build a 2v if you have the coin go 4v. Or you could mix it up and build a 5.4 4v or 2v. Got questions find me.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:04 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad

Interesting..... ever heard of a SHO V8? And either its a 2v or 4v its still a 4.6L. There is a lot of power in a 2v with work. And it will cost less then the 4v. Now there is a lot more potential with the 4v but to compare a 2v to a v6 is just plain silly. If your budget minded then build a 2v if you have the coin go 4v. Or you could mix it up and build a 5.4 4v or 2v. Got questions find me.
It would take a TON of work and money to make a 2v 4.6 fast. I'm not comparing a V6 to a 4.6 V8 I'm just saying its like trying to put performance parts on a V6 when it never will really be that fast.
While he has his motor out I would get a 4v 4.6 or 5.0 or 5.4 these motors respond better to bolt on's. a fully bolt on 2v 4.6 your lucky to see 300hp a 4v 4.6 comes stock with more than that.
I'm just saying while he's looking for a motor look for the 4v 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4 these motors produce a lot more power and respond better to bolt on's kinda a waste of money trying to make a 2v 4.6 fast I would know cause I have a ton of money into mine.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harper
so many questions that I do not know where to even start?

I have a 2004 GT that i purchased without an engine or transmission (a rebuilder) I am more knowledgeable about the older 302 HO's and know that the 4.6's came with better heads starting in 99' however if I can I would like to put a newer engine in my car if at all possible say out of a 2005 to 2013 if they will fit, what are the differences and what will have to happen to make one of the newer engines work, what are the 5/6 speed trans differences, and what will fit...I know they went to drive by wire at some point, but couldnt i still used a 04 cable/throttle body on a newer engine?
is there a specific section that covers swaps from SN-95 drivetrain to the newer 05 thru 13?
thanks in advance...
I would look for a 2v block out of a explorer or mark viii for a base. You can pick up a t3650 for around 600 from MPS salvage if your live close to GA. The big question is how much power do you want to make and do you want to do it NA or FI?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:57 AM   #19
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Where are you from? Around Arkansas you can pick up a 4.6 cheap, heck I got 2 shortblocks and 1 long block and then my stroker shortblock
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:28 AM   #20
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I've got a mark block I'd sell for 250
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ryan7racin

It would take a TON of work and money to make a 2v 4.6 fast. I'm not comparing a V6 to a 4.6 V8 I'm just saying its like trying to put performance parts on a V6 when it never will really be that fast.
While he has his motor out I would get a 4v 4.6 or 5.0 or 5.4 these motors respond better to bolt on's. a fully bolt on 2v 4.6 your lucky to see 300hp a 4v 4.6 comes stock with more than that.
I'm just saying while he's looking for a motor look for the 4v 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4 these motors produce a lot more power and respond better to bolt on's kinda a waste of money trying to make a 2v 4.6 fast I would know cause I have a ton of money into mine.
You obviously never built a 4v.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:38 AM   #22
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I'm in mid-alabama area....
I can see the point of starting out with a 4V if you have the coin or going with a 5.4 since that would instantly give you 49 more cubic inches...(no replacement for displacement as the old saying goes)
I just read the article NOV 03 MMFF's "Size matters"....and I looked up the spacers to make the 4.6 intake fit the 5.4.
This will probably be the route i go since I probably can find a 5.4 van/truck/expo engine for around $1000.00

Quote:
how much power do i want to make?
as much as i can, as cheap and easily as i can with what knowledge i have

i've seen 4.6's built and running in stock type classes in NMRA that hauled the MAIL, however they probably had $20 to $30k in the combo alone...
"most anyone" can build a fast car with a ton of money...(most i say)
I want a middle of the road mustang with a great combo (gear/tire/reasonable power adder) that will rival most of the cars in my local area. I raced around here 16-18 years ago, and built a good rep for winning, and i def dont want some punk kid in his daddys stock camaro stomping on me when i bring it out on a cruise night or something.
I'd like around 300 hp plus a 100 to 120hp from a power adder. total hp output to the rear tires about 380 to 390!
with that a reasonable amount of traction, a good reasonable gear, i should be able to hold my own.
plus i want to keep it together...
I tune industrial Instruments for a living, and have used Mike Westleys chip program( yea the back before windows-DOS one lol) to burn chips for fox mustangs back when my late model mustang shop was in full swing, I've been to the local track with Chris Johnson before JMS chip every opened it's doors.
I cant wait to see what I can do with just a stock 5.4 some tuning from a SCT handheld or maybe even laptop software if I can afford it, and all the basic go fast goodies (exhaust, headers, off road X-pipe,air filter, underdrives, gears, tires, timing adjustment, and a little tuning...and a dry shot of Nitrous)
like i stated before, this is going to be something I can put my 17 year old son in and let him cruise in it. But when needed I want to be able to floor it and feel like its not a stock Mustang also.
first things first-
step 1. get the body back in order...
step 2. get an engine and transmission
step 3. get it all installed and running

lucky for me the car already has a gear, flowmasters, and a off road h pipe.

32vnomad, pm sent.
thanks for all of the replys...knowledge is needed with every response from you guys i learn a little more...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #23
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You have an h? I have an x, im tired of it. Now what do we do?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad

You obviously never built a 4v.
Seems like you would rather build a 2v over a 4v
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:23 PM   #25
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so let me get some of my info straight...
a 4.6 and 5.4 are internally balenced, and as long as I have the non-Romeo 4.6 and 8 bolt flywheel they will interchange with the 5.4 correct?
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #26
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so let me get some of my info straight...
a 4.6 and 5.4 are internally balenced, and as long as I have the non-Romeo 4.6 and 8 bolt flywheel they will interchange with the 5.4 correct?
Yes
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:22 PM   #27
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Seems like you would rather build a 2v over a 4v
Seems like you need to check my sig my man to see what I got
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #28
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Yes
Well all you need is an 8 bolt flywheel. The 4.6 is irrelevant. Because the car had no powertrain . The 5.4L is casted after the Windser 4.6l yes. Rotating kits cost about 1300 with forged crank. Alot cheaper than a 4.6. I'm actually thinking of selling my teskid small block to do a 5.4L
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad

Well all you need is an 8 bolt flywheel. The 4.6 is irrelevant. Because the car had no powertrain . The 5.4L is casted after the Windser 4.6l yes. Rotating kits cost about 1300 with forged crank. Alot cheaper than a 4.6. I'm actually thinking of selling my teskid small block to do a 5.4L
Wow. Never checked the prices. That pretty much just sealed the deal.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #30
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ok there is that word again
Quote:
teskid
i am guessing here, a teskid is a block from a certain plant?
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:27 PM   #31
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ok there is that word again i am guessing here, a teskid is a block from a certain plant?
Teskid is a company of I remember correctly. For a little bit ford had their 4.6 DOHC blocks made by them. They are the same company that makes Ferrari's blocks. One of those blocks can handle about 1500hp without any modifications.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #32
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The 2v 4.6 is almost like putting money into a V6 it's really pointless only real power gains we will see if we go FI. If I'm not mistaking the 2v 4.6 is one of the smallest v8s made.
Back in the late 70's to early 80's, Oldsmobile had a 262CID V8. Powerless, but those were the times.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:26 PM   #33
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ok there is that word again i am guessing here, a teskid is a block from a certain plant?
It is a block that was forged in Italy for Ford. It was first introduced to lincoln in 93 under the name intech. It was then introduced to the cobra in 96. It was the same engine with minor differences. The heads had updated springs and retainers and some extra finishing work on the bowl area. The bottom end is the same except for the forged crank, which all are 8 bolt. Those are Kellogg peices from Michigan. The intake was of its own to the Mustang. The blocks are stout to 1500hp. They have iron sleeves that can be removed and resleeved to the 3.70 big bore giving you 302ci with stock stroke and rods. They weight 85lbs +/-.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Azure

Back in the late 70's to early 80's, Oldsmobile had a 262CID V8. Powerless, but those were the times.
Lol that's a small V8, don't get me wrong I love my 2v 4.6 but all I'm trying to say is while you have the motor out I would look into bigger and better motors. If I blew my 2v 4.6 I wouldn't wanna replace it with the same motor I would look into the 4v 4.6, 5.0 or 5.4. Like I stated before the 2v 4.6 just doesn't put out a lot of power, yea you can make it put out a lot of power with a lot of money, but as for basic bolt on's it doesn't respond that great to them as I have full bolts on's on my car.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:37 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by taylor98gt
I've got a mark block I'd sell for 250
Where u located?

---------- Post added at 05:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azure

Back in the late 70's to early 80's, Oldsmobile had a 262CID V8. Powerless, but those were the times.
He'll I've seen 3l v8s before. And smaller than that in racing.
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