P0190 code anyone? - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 1996-2004 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 11-21-2012, 01:03 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
P0190 code anyone?

Anyone had this problem? I found a lot of people have this problem but no real fix???
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-21-2012, 02:54 PM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
cliffyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,001
P0190 indicates the reference voltage (Vref) from the PCM to the FRPS is not between 4 to 6 V as it should be. This could be a wiring problem (a broken wire between the PCM and FRPS), a bad FRPS, or a bad PCM. The FRPS, Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and Differential Feedback Pressure EGR (DPFE) sensor share the same PCM Vref--if either of them were defective it could cause P0190.

So:
  • Check the voltage between the brown/white wire at the FRPS and ground, key on engine off (KOEO). It should be 4 to 6 V with around 5 V being "normal";

  • If it is not in that range unplug the TPS and check again at the FRPS, if the reference voltage is now present the TPS may be shorted internally);

  • If there is still no reference voltage at the FRPS unplug the DFPE sensor and check again at the FRPS, if the reference voltage is now present the DFPE sensor may be shorted internally);
If unplugging the TPS and DFPE sensor does not restore Vref on the brown/white wire at the FRPS then the wiring harness is open someplace between the PCM and the FRPS, or the PCMs internal Vref supply is bad.
__________________
SOLD! - 2003 GT, UPR X, FRPP 24lb/h, Magnaflow, PP 70mm TB & plenum, Delta Force tuned,
Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel, RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq
cliffyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:20 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
What is DFPE and VREF? TPS is throttle position sensor right?
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-22-2012, 08:16 AM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
cliffyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright View Post
What is DFPE and VREF? TPS is throttle position sensor right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffyk View Post
P0190 indicates the reference voltage (Vref) from the PCM to the FRPS is not between 4 to 6 V as it should be. This could be a wiring problem (a broken wire between the PCM and FRPS), a bad FRPS, or a bad PCM. The FRPS, Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and Differential Feedback Pressure EGR (DPFE) sensor share the same PCM Vref--if either of them were defective it could cause P0190.
__________________
SOLD! - 2003 GT, UPR X, FRPP 24lb/h, Magnaflow, PP 70mm TB & plenum, Delta Force tuned,
Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel, RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq
cliffyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:37 AM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
So can a bad EGR cause this?
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:07 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright
So can a bad EGR cause this?
Ok sorry cliff I'm dumb I actually read what you said so yah that makes Sense. I don't have a volt meter though. Oh yah and where is the DFPE located?
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
1996mustang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Miami
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright

Ok sorry cliff I'm dumb I actually read what you said so yah that makes Sense. I don't have a volt meter though. Oh yah and where is the DFPE located?
By the firewall driver side

Click image for larger version

Name:	ForumRunner_20121122_135320.png
Views:	2036
Size:	617.1 KB
ID:	77218
__________________
1996 Mustang GT, 17x9 front and 17x10.5 cobra r replica rims, 255/40/17 front 285/40/17 rear at the moment,
o/r x-pipe flow master 40 series dump downs, cai/ram intake, 75mm c&l throttle body and plenum, pi heads and intake swap, msd wires, stock gears, untuned at the moment, no dyno numbers for now.
1996mustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:03 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Gotcha great thanks!
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 04:59 PM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Region: Georgia
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1996mustang View Post
By the firewall driver side

Attachment 77218
That old design DPFE is notorious for going bad
__________________
mymustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 05:18 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by mymustang

That old design DPFE is notorious for going bad
Well I got a 00' with 172,000 miles so that would explain it...
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 07:20 AM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Region: Georgia
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright View Post
Well I got a 00' with 172,000 miles so that would explain it...
If you have to replace that part,,it wont look like that,,they have replaced it with a plastic black one
__________________
mymustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 08:23 AM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by mymustang

If you have to replace that part,,it wont look like that,,they have replaced it with a plastic black one
Ok we'll at least I got an idea what it looks like and location thanks for your guys help
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 10:59 AM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Ok so I'm getting normal current to my FRPS, so im wanting to if the FRPS can be ohmed for resistance or will I not be able to tell its bad.
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 11:06 AM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Here's some signs and symptoms my car is giving me. When I put gas in Monday notice my fuel gauge took a min or two to reach the actual reading. Meaning the needle on the gauge slowly climbed up to three quarter a tank, it's has been consuming gas real bad, stalled one day, service engine light came on, now there is a real bad miss like act to her, no power, and fuel pressure fluctuates a lot with key in the key on position? So let me ask what you guys think? I'm starting to think its the fuel pump???
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 06:50 AM   #15
Registered Member
Regular
 
cliffyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Region: Florida
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathew r Wright View Post
Ok so I'm getting normal current to my FRPS, so im wanting to if the FRPS can be ohmed for resistance or will I not be able to tell its bad.
I believe you mean you measured the voltage, not the current (amperage). No offense meant, it's just that after 45+ years of engineering I can't help it. Also one does not "ohm" a device any more that one would "volt" it or "ampere" it--it's just called measuring its resistance, the unit of measure is Ohms.

The FRPS sensor element is a piezo-electric strain gauge, measuring its resistance would not produce any meaningful vale (I.e measuring its resistance would be futile )

You can however measure its output voltage and compare it and the fuel pressure reading to the chart below:



With the engine idling the voltage between the red/pink and gray/red wires should be reasonably steady, and around 2.2 to 2.4V (fuel pressure at the rail of 30-32 psi, the OBD2 PID should be 40 psi or so). If it is not then the FRPS is likely bad. If the voltage is as indicated then the problem could be in either the Fuel Pump Driver Module, or the pump itself.

Testing the fuel pump driver module is rather involved, and requires Ford's IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) to be done easily. Here is the wiring diagram for the fuel pump, which may be of some assistance.

__________________
SOLD! - 2003 GT, UPR X, FRPP 24lb/h, Magnaflow, PP 70mm TB & plenum, Delta Force tuned,
Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel, RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq
cliffyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 09:11 AM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
Mathew r Wright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Region: Oklahoma
Posts: 470
Thank you...
Mathew r Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 12:19 PM   #17
Registered User
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Kansas City
Region: Kansas
Posts: 5
Similar problems here. Could really use your help cliff.

FRPS voltage readings:
Key on engine off

BN/WH 4.99V
GY/RD .01V
RD/PNK 2.13

Key on engine @idle:

BN/WH 5.04-5.14v
GY/RD .06-.16v
RD/PNK 2.84-2.88V

Tried replacing the FRPS, no change, what do I test next and what does it rule out, etc, etc?
Untamed Mustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 01:41 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 7,412
Cliffy's posts are probably going to be the most help that you will find on this website, at the present time.

Have you done a fuel pressure test?
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
Registered User
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Kansas City
Region: Kansas
Posts: 5
I figured.

I already sent him a pm letting him know about this post and also telling him the same things on the list post. Just waiting g for him to have time to reply.
Untamed Mustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 01:50 PM   #20
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 7,412
Not sure if he will reply or not. He has only been coming on this forum infrequently lately, and I don't know that there is anything more that he can add, than is already posted here.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 01:58 PM   #21
Registered User
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Kansas City
Region: Kansas
Posts: 5
He said if the voltage isn't correct at the grey/red and red/pink wires it's likely the frps and didn't go any further down that line of diagnosis. Well mine isn't right and it's not the frps so I'm hoping he can elaborate a little more for me.
Untamed Mustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2015, 01:58 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Salinas
Region: California
Posts: 7,412
Maybe Matt will chime in and tell what he finally found was the cause of the code.
straybullitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2016, 03:18 PM   #23
Registered User
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Dubuque
Region: Iowa
Posts: 4
I also am having this problem with my 99v6 I just installed a cai and spark plugs and wired and a coil
Logan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 1996-2004 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


» Like Us On Facebook



08:40 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.