differences between pi and nonpi engines? - Page 2 - Mustang Evolution

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Old 12-01-2012, 01:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 98GTCONV
Yea the way you are making the pi swap sound, I might as well get an 04 4.6, or maybe even pick up a 96-98 cobra motor and trans. Then work my way up on it. I was thinking the pi swap would be $1000 and no motor pull necessary. I wouldn't be able to pull it. And I probably am working with around $1500. I could get a newer 4.6 for around $700 and have money left over for the shop fee. Then sell my old motor and have bolt-on money
You don't have to pull the motor to do pi swap? Unless your putting head studs in then you have to raise it up 3 inches. And I found mine on Craigslist for 500 for intake cams and heads, and got the Ford head change kit, that's all you need really.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:35 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by taylor98gt

You don't have to pull the motor to do pi swap? Unless your putting head studs in then you have to raise it up 3 inches. And I found mine on Craigslist for 500 for intake cams and heads, and got the Ford head change kit, that's all you need really.
How long did it take you to do it?
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 98GTCONV

How long did it take you to do it?
Bout a day, its not really hard, just make sure you clean off old gaskets, and clean out cylinders with a air hose.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #39
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Good info las97gt! I was about to put in my little but i know about these motors but you covered it all!
I have yet to figure out how to make the MOTM. You have to tell me how to submit my ride.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:04 PM   #40
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I am curious. I've done this swap on a car that blew head gaskets and I didn't have to pull the motor to do the timing chains and tensioners, heads and intake. So why pull it? If he is going to pull the motor then why not swap for a later model engine then. I've seen the PI year engines sell for that. HELL he could find a good 5.4L at 880 with low miles. If he feels safe enough to pull the engine then he could do a swap and save some money vs pulling the entire engine to just swap top end parts. Not trying to say the PI swap isn't worth it or down you guys but I don't see dropping 880 on parts that you can take the same money and get a low mileage complete engine and do the same thing. Warrenty or not. But thats my opinion.
Agreed. I have the luxury of being in the US Military where I can visit a 15 engine bay area with 4 point and drive on lifts, and a tool room to boot. I always try to remember that other members are doing their work at home in the garage. I respect that. You have a point there 95V. I am glad that 98GT will have enough info to sit down and take a long pause and figure out the next move. after all its his thread. LOL.

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Bout a day, its not really hard, just make sure you clean off old gaskets, and clean out cylinders with a air hose.
you must have had a clean engine block. i had to clean mine up for a bit from 14 years of build up.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:21 PM   #41
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Bout a day, its not really hard, just make sure you clean off old gaskets, and clean out cylinders with a air hose.

I agree with taylor98GT. Just to ensure all are aware, I did not do just my heads, but also the rear seals, front seals, new chains, new tensioners, new guides, new heads, fixed a gouge on my rear crank causing leakage, self custom installed UPR rails, fuel fittings and regulator, upgraded injectors, and more. I went max on my ride. so much so that a pro tech not having time to lift the hood was slightly fooled by the cobra bumper, since it runs like one and does burn outs in a tick, or drift into U turns.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:28 PM   #42
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98GT, just a heads up. I see a lot of experience on this thread. I am an avid do-it-yourselfer (DIY). I have no professional automotive experience. I bought my Mustang Feb 2011 (a good looking piece of junk). I have used only 2 speed shops for assistance since. Since then I have also eliminated one of those speed shops for its unfriendly business practices. Maybe this is why I provided so much information, some usable, some not, but that was the whole point of it. Hope I didn’t freak anyone out. I just wanted you to decide on what you wanted to do. I/we here on the forum cannot decide for you. I am a hard core Infantryman who waited through the best years of my life to own the Mustang I most appreciate. Now I have it, I am glad. Next is to build a real “door car” drag racer to take on circuits. Now, that is a budgeting nightmare, and planning to boot on a currently non-existent budget, and a whole lot of patience just to get to the first race that could be a disappointment. Get it? Good luck on your Power Improvement. I’ll keep dropping in to see the results.
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Old 12-02-2012, 02:07 AM   #43
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Well here's the thing. This will be my first undertaking in the automotive world (more advanced than simple bolt ons). Im starting school for automotive this january so I wanted to have a project as I learn. But when you said pull the engine I just figured this mod was out of the question. I have no way of doing that. Im just working out of my dads garage as of now. But what im now hearing is that this is a fairly easy mod, just takes money and a little time. Im somewhat confused. I've got both time and money...so what should I do?
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #44
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Well here's the thing. This will be my first undertaking in the automotive world (more advanced than simple bolt ons). Im starting school for automotive this january so I wanted to have a project as I learn. But when you said pull the engine I just figured this mod was out of the question. I have no way of doing that. Im just working out of my dads garage as of now. But what im now hearing is that this is a fairly easy mod, just takes money and a little time. Im somewhat confused. I've got both time and money...so what should I do?
Your confusion is understood. I do owe you an apology too. When I did my head swap, I also did a rebuild of 100% gaskets and seals and then some, so I had to remove the engine plus. I went back and took a long look at my 97 underhood this morning and realized that you dont have to disassemble anything more than your exhaust pipes from your headers on the bottom end of things. You get to keep the wheels on the car. Jack stands wont be needed for this one. There is one unknown though, and that is with the length of the header bolts (bout 8" long but need anly about 2 inch clearance to slide head out), but everything indicates indicates easy removal. Next, I already have aftermarket headers so I had no choice but go out the bottom end. If you have stock exhaust headers it won't be a problem (I need you to indicate if you do and if shorty or long tubes). Consider me a member of your team now, and I am sure everyone else will be too (dumb to say that too, cuz they are). Also, this is a major undertaking that will yield a tremendous amount of knowledge that will have you schooling other fellow Stang owners for a long time. I'll post the step by step to help you out. I think you can do it in 8 hours or less if you have power tools and you don't over tighten and snap screws and bolts. should'nt happen though. Ready? I am.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:45 AM   #45
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Day 1.
Note that the engine must be sufficiently cold to begin the head removal.
-Back the vehicle into the garage. Allows room to work on the front end near the door way, and more natural light. Shut off the engine.
-Discharge the fuel system. Here’s how. Pull the fuel pump fuse. Start the engine, it should run of fuel immediately and stall. If I recall right: standing on driver side facing fuse box, second row, right to left, third fuse up, yellow 20 amp, pull it. Keep it somewhere so you don’t accidentally cause fuel spillage later (especially if you smoke).
-Disconnect the negative and positive battery terminals.
- Disassembly should follow in the following steps for optimum efficiency. Before you begin pulling parts, have box of zip-lock bags and a sharpie ready, you’ll need to use it (guys better than me screw up re-assembly because of not doing this):
1. Strut tower brace. 10mm-use 3/8” drive at the fire wall. Zip it, and tape it to the brace, put it in a corner and forget it.
2. Air intake tube, and filter assy. Disconnect the MAF cable connector (wide one), and the temp sensor (little one). Re-insert the 8mm screw into the fender wall for easy find later. Also remove the larger vacuum tubes from the intake. Keep vacuum parts together.
3. Disconnect the TB cable and cruise cables. The cruise cable snaps on, but first note the slot where it slides onto the TB. Don’t just force it off. One way on, one way off. Accelerator pedal cable runs over a half moon, spring loaded mechanism on the TB. Pull on the cable to allow slack, then slide the end piece out of its slot. Same here, one way out, one way in.
4. On driver side and behind the TB (TB rear). Remove the EGR components and carefully disconnect the red vacuum lines. Disconnect the EGR metal pipe here too. Before reassembly, use a dab of anti-seize compound on the threads. The vacuum sensor, sender is attached by 2 very small nuts to its retaining bracket (8mm). Having a magnetic pickup tool helps. This component is bolted to the TB by 2x 10mm bolts. Bag and tag as you go.
5. Following this trend…remove the TB and other top components (minus fuel rail) and zip it as you wish while keeping like screws with like parts. Everything fits the same on the new intake if you will replace it.
6. Ignition components. Disconnect the coils and brackets separately. Bag and tag as left side and right side. If you run into a problem, the wires may not be numbered but they only work one way and by length. Just keep the sides together. Behind the driver side coil, under the bracket is a connector for the cams. Disconnect it after the bracket is removed. You also must reinstall it before the coil mounting bracket is reinstalled. Yeah, Ford makes sure that important components do not become unplugged easily and that a backup safety is in place.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:19 AM   #46
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7. Top end engine harness removal. Disconnect the harness by carefully depressing the connectors, and unplugging them (vehicle age is a curse). The harness is designed into two pieces, a driver side, and passenger side, but are connected at the fire wall. Reinstallation is easy. Passenger side runs all the way down to the Crank Shaft sensor, and AC compressor. Disconnect all of them and get it out the way. The driver side ends at the cam sensor behind the left coil. Note the color of the coolant sensors by side. If you forget, each only plugs into one side of the harness so you can’t go wrong. Later I’ll explain why this is important with the PI intake.
8. Let’s go to the fuel rail and get that out the way. We have already depressurized it by stalling the engine. Verify by pressing the Schrader pressure release valve on the driver side, right front. Although the rails are no longer under pressure, expect gasoline to flow out when you disconnect it from the injectors. Here’s how. By now you should have disconnected the vacuum tubes to include the one attached to the fuel pressure regulator. Start by using upward but if possible controlled force to either pull the injectors from the manifold or from the rail; either could occur. Key to success is to avoid tapping/pounding the injector ends onto the manifold surface. If you have the original injectors you should expect that the plastic tips are brittle meaning they could shatter on impact. Now that they are removed, check the yellow tips for cracks or splits. This is a strong indicator of leakage of fuel vapors not to mention a fire hazard at higher engine temperatures in the summer
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:14 PM   #47
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98 GT you still gonna do this your self?
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:16 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by LAS97GT
98 GT you still gonna do this your self?
Im planning on it. Probably will get the parts come January and start working on it. Its not a dd so I wont have any problems letting it sit.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:07 PM   #49
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Im planning on it. Probably will get the parts come January and start working on it. Its not a dd so I wont have any problems letting it sit.
Ok, I'll post more steps, but make sure you rehearse the steps. Oh, not sure how hard it will be to unbolt the exhaust. If you pull everything off the heads it should be easy to reach behind the heads from the top. Never done it though.

The hardest thing will be for you to be sure you set the crank at top dead center, and that you do the same for each cylinder head. Ford makes it easy, so no sweat, just attention to detail, then verify, and re verify one more time. Start research on the timing process. It's best you do for your own confidence. Won't let you slip though.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:34 PM   #50
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I bought my heads new (2004). They had dummy ports on them, but key was that they were made for the SN 95. If you buy used, there are a couple of important things you will need to do to prep the heads or you'll have a major oil spill. I'll explain how later, or you can have them prep at a speed shop, but I say do it yourself. The experience is rewarding, besides it will be a long time before you get to do it again, if ever. Hah!
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:48 PM   #51
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Since im buying the kit from Mps, do you think any of it will be prepped for installation?
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:55 PM   #52
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Since im buying the kit from Mps, do you think any of it will be prepped for installation?
Am not familiar with MPS. I got mine from ford racing, and I had to prep it. What type of heads you buying, give specs down to compression ratio, and porting stage. Remember that the higher the comp ratio the less you can add boost. 10:1 as I know should be the highest if your going boost down the road.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:59 PM   #53
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I should take these questions straight to mps bc I have no idea lol
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:37 AM   #54
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98GT, just a heads up. I see a lot of experience on this thread. I am an avid do-it-yourselfer (DIY). I have no professional automotive experience. I bought my Mustang Feb 2011 (a good looking piece of junk). I have used only 2 speed shops for assistance since. Since then I have also eliminated one of those speed shops for its unfriendly business practices. Maybe this is why I provided so much information, some usable, some not, but that was the whole point of it. Hope I didn’t freak anyone out. I just wanted you to decide on what you wanted to do. I/we here on the forum cannot decide for you. I am a hard core Infantryman who waited through the best years of my life to own the Mustang I most appreciate. Now I have it, I am glad. Next is to build a real “door car” drag racer to take on circuits. Now, that is a budgeting nightmare, and planning to boot on a currently non-existent budget, and a whole lot of patience just to get to the first race that could be a disappointment. Get it? Good luck on your Power Improvement. I’ll keep dropping in to see the results.
I've been swapping and building engines for almost 20 years. I've specialized in mustangs for the past 10. The PI swap is a "quick" fix to me. Yes it does improve on the performance but to me for the work involved your money ahead to swap to a DOHC or 5.4L. There are pros and cons to each. The DOHC loves a FI set up. (I.E.= Procharger Kenne Bell turbos etc). The 5.4L is all around bigger engine and better performance. So weigh your options before you fork out $$$$. Check out 97 GT 32v Swap and 2v to 4v in New Edge sticky. Lots of great info in those threads. Also talk to 32vNomad he can tell you alot about the 5.4L and the DOHC.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #55
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I've been swapping and building engines for almost 20 years. I've specialized in mustangs for the past 10. The PI swap is a "quick" fix to me. Yes it does improve on the performance but to me for the work involved your money ahead to swap to a DOHC or 5.4L. There are pros and cons to each. The DOHC loves a FI set up. (I.E.= Procharger Kenne Bell turbos etc). The 5.4L is all around bigger engine and better performance. So weigh your options before you fork out $$$$. Check out 97 GT 32v Swap and 2v to 4v in New Edge sticky. Lots of great info in those threads. Also talk to 32vNomad he can tell you alot about the 5.4L and the DOHC.
Dam where u live, I need pi swap done lol.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:06 PM   #56
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I should take these questions straight to mps bc I have no idea lol
Great idea. You have to know all there is to know bout those heads.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:02 PM   #57
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Dam where u live, I need pi swap done lol.
Hickville Kentucky.... lol
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:19 AM   #58
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Hickville Kentucky.... lol
WV here, not to far lol.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #59
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What's the price of going DOHC? Because next year im hoping for an sc!
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:42 AM   #60
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What does pi stand for? Sorry kinda new
"Performance Improved"
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:49 AM   #61
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What's the price of going DOHC? Because next year im hoping for an sc!
I've seen DOHC engines go for the price your going to spend on just heads and intake. Do the research!! Check out the other 2 threads on here 2v to 4v New Edge Swap and 97 GT 32v Swap. All kinds of info in those 2 threads about it. 32vNomad has already successfully performed the swap in his new edge GT and I myself am waiting on a intake to finish mine. PLAN IT OUT BEFORE YOU DIVE IN!! I'll give you a short run down of it. You'll need the 2v's oil pan a cobra pick up tube for the oil pump, all the harness from your car will swap to the DOHC with only 2 modifications to it, your tranny will bolt to it also, (if its a stick you'll need a flywheel) and the car will run on the GT's ECM but not to full output. I'd recommend finding a mark viii and getting harness and all cause you can use the wiring from that to extend what needs to be done on the GT's harness. Basically splice in the plugs to make it look factory.

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WV here, not to far lol.
Yeah thats true but still a long distance to go lol
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:56 PM   #62
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I've been swapping and building engines for almost 20 years. I've specialized in mustangs for the past 10. The PI swap is a "quick" fix to me. Yes it does improve on the performance but to me for the work involved your money ahead to swap to a DOHC or 5.4L. There are pros and cons to each. The DOHC loves a FI set up. (I.E.= Procharger Kenne Bell turbos etc). The 5.4L is all around bigger engine and better performance. So weigh your options before you fork out $$$$. Check out 97 GT 32v Swap and 2v to 4v in New Edge sticky. Lots of great info in those threads. Also talk to 32vNomad he can tell you alot about the 5.4L and the DOHC.
Hey, I totally agree, but the exception was that I wanted to keep engine. I can crank out over 400 HP on mine and lighten it up to make more speed. It's all bout what I want. For 97 Gt, not sure, but think he is weighing the options. Good post btw.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:41 AM   #63
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My DOHC weighs 85 lbs less than your 2v.... Not trying to be smart just stating a fact. My block is aluminum and can handle way past the goal you are talking about. Like I said weigh your options.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:14 PM   #64
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My DOHC weighs 85 lbs less than your 2v.... Not trying to be smart just stating a fact. My block is aluminum and can handle way past the goal you are talking about. Like I said weigh your options.
Yeah, I was just being safe. I know, I could push 500 or more at the crank,but if my internals are weaker than expected I could lose an entire engine. Only someone dumb would do that. Point blank. I'll stick to 400-450 and then make the improvements to harden the bottom end. Still, that is the mark for my vert. when I reach that point I'll graduate to hard core racing engines. No sweat, just being objective. thanks.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:56 AM   #65
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I think im going the cheaper route. Buying a pi intake manifold and an install kit. Not gonna do the heads. Im guessing ill get around 15-20hp which hopefully will be what im looking for. Getting a 70mm throttle body and plenum and putting 4.10 gears in within the next week or so. Should have pi intake in within a month.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:32 PM   #66
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I think im going the cheaper route. Buying a pi intake manifold and an install kit. Not gonna do the heads. Im guessing ill get around 15-20hp which hopefully will be what im looking for. Getting a 70mm throttle body and plenum and putting 4.10 gears in within the next week or so. Should have pi intake in within a month.
Yeah, I did the same, so I understand; good move. I built up to where I'm at, and most folks with your model year do the same. It takes time. I started with the exhaust, then the suspension, then the heads. Maybe you should wait and get lucky with a cobra vert (rare to find in decent condition), or keep costs low, free up extra hp with UDPs, free flow exhausts, etc.

Not sure how to adapt PI intakes to N-PI heads. Ports are different. Like you said, you'll need an adapter kit, which means a spacer. You could run out of clearance at the strut brace. If you do I think steeda has one (same design) that allows for clearance of the TB. Keep posting updates.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:43 PM   #67
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This is what I found on eBay. Seller is very helpful, says he can walk me thru if I get stuck on something. I found a writeup on another forum. Seems like people with 96-98s like this mod over the full swap, mainly because of the price difference!

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=07174955904
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by 98GTCONV View Post
This is what I found on eBay. Seller is very helpful, says he can walk me thru if I get stuck on something. I found a writeup on another forum. Seems like people with 96-98s like this mod over the full swap, mainly because of the price difference!

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...id=07174955904
I recognize the parts:
-the gasket pattern is for a PI air intake. Your OEM ports are oval. To adapt non-PI intake is a challenge and lots of RTV. Advise you buy a junkyard intake first to test. Ports are different.
- the large "o" ring is for your water pump gasket replacement. If your current don't leak, don't remove it.
-the smaller O ring is for your water neck where the thermostat is installed.
-the metal U shaped bracket is the Alternator adapter bracket.
- the very small O rings are injector seals, brown at the bottom, black on top. Should gave 8 sets.
-the metal pipe is needed to route around the larger PI intake.

I advise you keep your current intake and avoid leaks later. Bolt holes are the same, but seals differently. Once again, search my posts on how I upgraded.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:51 PM   #69
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I may get it professionally installed. Its either rtv or a professional weld. And since all of the parts to this mod were so cheap, I can afford the shop bill.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:02 AM   #70
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I may get it professionally installed. Its either rtv or a professional weld. And since all of the parts to this mod were so cheap, I can afford the shop bill.
What do you mean "weld"? The intake is plastic. Mate the gasket to the old head first to check fit. What is good is that the PI gaskets are larger than the ports on the head. Both the head and PI intake surfaces are flat with no indentations Ike the non- PI intake.
Another thing, The water outlet pipe on the water pump clears the larger intake but will have to be shortened to fit the new routing pipe. Even then the clearance will be too small. T-birds owners showed that routing rubber hosing and fittings did the trick. Also, PI intakes have only 1 temp fitting, the old has 2. A machine shop can tap the other in cheap. The low pressure line to the evap will need changing or modification if you use the metal pipe. I did all those when I did my swap. Wasn't hard. I just took my time measuring lengths and angles to ensure no kinks in the fittings. Buy hosing and fittings at napa due to quality (if not OEM replacement).
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