Beginner's guide to bolting-on power gains - Page 5 - Mustang Evolution

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Old 12-03-2013, 09:10 PM   #141
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That's installed, they have been in business for 35 - 40 years. My car is a Vert and he offered to weld on a set of full length support tubes if I supply them.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #142
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Nothing wrong with having a good exhaust shop do it. Just make SURE these guys do mandrel bends and not pinch bends. If pinch bends walk away, only get mandrel.

As for cost... price an American Thunder catback and a catted X and see what the difference is. AM catback is probably $260 or something, catted X is likely more expensive so yeah I'd say the price is good installed.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:27 PM   #143
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Nothing wrong with having a good exhaust shop do it. Just make SURE these guys do mandrel bends and not pinch bends. If pinch bends walk away, only get mandrel.

As for cost... price an American Thunder catback and a catted X and see what the difference is. AM catback is probably $260 or something, catted X is likely more expensive so yeah I'd say the price is good installed.
If a mandrel bender is a hydraulic machine that's bends the pipe around a solid center, that they do. He's a friend but not a close friend and I've been in the shop 50 to 60 times in the past 10 years visiting.
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:31 PM   #144
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If a mandrel bender is a hydraulic machine that's bends the pipe around a solid center, that they do. He's a friend but not a close friend and I've been in the shop 50 to 60 times in the past 10 years visiting.
What they do sounds like crush bending, that is NOT what you want.

Here is a pic:



Left is crush bending, right is mandrel. I'd go ask them and to see some of their kits. If the bends look like on the left then they are a ****ty exhaust shop.

For my money, I'd get an O/R pipe, catback of my choice and install it myself in an afternoon with a 6 pack. Its not hard.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:52 AM   #145
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What they do sounds like crush bending, that is NOT what you want.

Here is a pic:



Left is crush bending, right is mandrel. I'd go ask them and to see some of their kits. If the bends look like on the left then they are a ****ty exhaust shop.

For my money, I'd get an O/R pipe, catback of my choice and install it myself in an afternoon with a 6 pack. Its not hard.
Thanks. I can see the difference very easily, no question which is best. Going to see him the weekend after next about another matter and will check it out. But the 6 pack will have to wait till I done. And if I have a helper it will turn into a 12 pack or greater.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:52 PM   #146
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Great article!! I have a 1999 GT 5 speed with 74,000 miles. Last year I bolted on some performance upgrades. Started with BBK cold air side fender well intake with 78 mm Throttle-body. Then added BBK full length ceramic coated headers into an off road x-pipe followed by Flowmaster's three chamber cat back system. The car had Underdrive pulleys already. The car was tuned on the dyno for 93 octane fuel on a very hot and humid day. She put down 266 rwhp and 298 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. The car runs stronger than the numbers say and is much more fun to drive!!
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:18 PM   #147
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Thanks for this post! This is gonna be a big help for me!
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:56 PM   #148
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So I just bought my first car, 00 GT, and I want to put in more HP into it with a little bit more of sound of course. I was reading a few of these threads and I was thinking of adding a BBK Power Plus CAI system and maybe an Magnaflow exhaust system. What do you guys recommend?
easy stuff to do that won't break the bank is to check out (all of this that is listed can be found on AmericanMuscle.com, all they do is mustang performance and style.) the CAI from SR performance the kit is an inner fender style but with some easy modifications and some ingenuity you can make your own heat shield for it if you want it to be in the engine bay. plus the kit only costs $80.00. for a kit that with supporting mods and a tune can get better power results than the more expensive CAI kits. and here is the best part with you can get all the supporting mods (TB, Plenum, Spacer) all from SR performance for a little over $300 you can have a full intake versus a BBK or K&N CAI that will cost anywhere in the range of $200-$300.

next thing you can do is exhaust. you can get a set of Long Tube Headers from Pacesetter for around $260, make sure you use the factory style manifold gaskets to keep the headers from forming any leaks. high flow cats $125 a piece for some good ones, get rid of that restrictive mid pipe with 6 cats cutting down to 2 will give you a nice little grunt from the exhaust and then get the kind of mid pipe you want (H-pipe gives you more of the original muscle car sound, X-pipe will give your car more of a higher pitched european sound.) the mid pipe your looking for around $250-$500 just based on design (catted, off-road, h-pipe, x-pipe, etc.) and manufacturer. then mufflers of your choice and then the direction of the flow you want (out back, side pipe, or mid dumps) you can have your muffler shop make the exit where you want it. I prefer the side pipe sound you get that race car sound right in your ears.

then get a really good synthetic oil change.

get a SCT bama plug and play tuner for $379 through american muscle (enrolls you for bama's tunes for life program.) call Bama tell them all that you have done to the car and they can write you a new tune and email it to you. download onto the tuner, plug in and see the performance be massaged out of your 2valve mustang.

on your year car with mods listed and a race tune you should see improvements to the wheels of around 40-70 rwhp, based on what else is already done to the car. now if you upgrade to a lighter flywheel or flex plate and driveshaft you could see even more power meeting the rear wheels.

hope this helps and have fun.
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Old 01-04-2014, 09:32 PM   #149
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easy stuff to do that won't break the bank is to check out (all of this that is listed can be found on AmericanMuscle.com, all they do is mustang performance and style.) the CAI from SR performance the kit is an inner fender style but with some easy modifications and some ingenuity you can make your own heat shield for it if you want it to be in the engine bay. plus the kit only costs $80.00. for a kit that with supporting mods and a tune can get better power results than the more expensive CAI kits. and here is the best part with you can get all the supporting mods (TB, Plenum, Spacer) all from SR performance for a little over $300 you can have a full intake versus a BBK or K&N CAI that will cost anywhere in the range of $200-$300.

next thing you can do is exhaust. you can get a set of Long Tube Headers from Pacesetter for around $260, make sure you use the factory style manifold gaskets to keep the headers from forming any leaks. high flow cats $125 a piece for some good ones, get rid of that restrictive mid pipe with 6 cats cutting down to 2 will give you a nice little grunt from the exhaust and then get the kind of mid pipe you want (H-pipe gives you more of the original muscle car sound, X-pipe will give your car more of a higher pitched european sound.) the mid pipe your looking for around $250-$500 just based on design (catted, off-road, h-pipe, x-pipe, etc.) and manufacturer. then mufflers of your choice and then the direction of the flow you want (out back, side pipe, or mid dumps) you can have your muffler shop make the exit where you want it. I prefer the side pipe sound you get that race car sound right in your ears.

then get a really good synthetic oil change.

get a SCT bama plug and play tuner for $379 through american muscle (enrolls you for bama's tunes for life program.) call Bama tell them all that you have done to the car and they can write you a new tune and email it to you. download onto the tuner, plug in and see the performance be massaged out of your 2valve mustang.

on your year car with mods listed and a race tune you should see improvements to the wheels of around 40-70 rwhp, based on what else is already done to the car. now if you upgrade to a lighter flywheel or flex plate and driveshaft you could see even more power meeting the rear wheels.

hope this helps and have fun.
Please read 1st thread (the only one with any true meaning here) CAI does nothing for our cars
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:16 PM   #150
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Please read 1st thread (the only one with any true meaning here) CAI does nothing for our cars
i did read the first thread and kept reading, that is what my original comment was for the guy who was asking what he could do to his mustang to boost power without spending a fortune to do so. its just a matter of opinion.
I'm just going off of what has been proven to work on a dyno. i have a CAI on my car and have noticed a difference. its not much but you can tell there is a difference. the point on the original thread about how the factory air box and air hose are a CAI is true they do pull cooler air that is away from the engine, but they are limited to how much air they are able to pull into the motor. the stock snorkel that is fitted on the factory air box is i think about an inch to an inch and a half in diameter so it is very restricted, not to mention the fact that the factory hose has all those ribs in it, again this is more restriction. i have run the car all 3 ways, factory intake with the snorkel, without the snorkel, and then with the CAI. and all i can tell you is from my experience it leaves a noticeable difference. you may have tried the CAI and not had as noticeable gains then you were expecting i don't know your experience but it is possible if you have used a CAI that you were not seeing the full potential of your CAI with supporting mods (TB, Plenum, Spacer) and a tune you could easily see a boost in power of over 30 hp easy. now if you used the factory hose and box with the supporting mods you may get close to that but it still has room for improvement. its all about how much air and fuel you are able to push into the motor and then get it away from the motor as quickly as possible. thats all I'm saying just matter of personal opinion.
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Old 01-05-2014, 02:20 AM   #151
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i did read the first thread and kept reading, that is what my original comment was for the guy who was asking what he could do to his mustang to boost power without spending a fortune to do so. its just a matter of opinion.
I'm just going off of what has been proven to work on a dyno. i have a CAI on my car and have noticed a difference. its not much but you can tell there is a difference. the point on the original thread about how the factory air box and air hose are a CAI is true they do pull cooler air that is away from the engine, but they are limited to how much air they are able to pull into the motor. the stock snorkel that is fitted on the factory air box is i think about an inch to an inch and a half in diameter so it is very restricted, not to mention the fact that the factory hose has all those ribs in it, again this is more restriction. i have run the car all 3 ways, factory intake with the snorkel, without the snorkel, and then with the CAI. and all i can tell you is from my experience it leaves a noticeable difference. you may have tried the CAI and not had as noticeable gains then you were expecting i don't know your experience but it is possible if you have used a CAI that you were not seeing the full potential of your CAI with supporting mods (TB, Plenum, Spacer) and a tune you could easily see a boost in power of over 30 hp easy. now if you used the factory hose and box with the supporting mods you may get close to that but it still has room for improvement. its all about how much air and fuel you are able to push into the motor and then get it away from the motor as quickly as possible. thats all I'm saying just matter of personal opinion.
The inlet to the stock snorkel is 72 mm, a bit over 2.8", and it's ID rapidly increases to over 90 mm--you must not have ever seen one if you believe it to be "...an inch to an inch and a half in diameter...". It is there to reduce intake noise at certain engine speeds and offers very very little resistance to airflow. The perceived "power gain" from removing the snorkle is 100% placebo effect caused by the increased intake noise. Cheap aftermarket CAIs provide this same psychological "boost", for the same reason.

As to aftermarket CAIs, particularly $80 CAIs made of straight wall tubing, all they can possibly do is perhaps provide a slight power increase at some narrow rpm band--at the expense of no gain and possible power suckouts at other engine speeds.

The stock intake is a tuned system; I.e. its dimensions and therefore its resonances were engineered to enhance intake air flow across the engine's complete operating range. That is why it is NOT just a cheap piece of straight wall tubing.

There is much more to airflow in the intake tract of a multi-cylinder internal combustion engine than is commonly known or believed, the most fundamental being that it is not a contiguous flow of air but rather a series of pulses each having a lower than ambient pressure head, a near ambient pressure body and a slightly higher than ambient pressure tail. The specific properties of these pulses are of course determined by engine speed and throttle opening. At idle and lower throttle operation the pulses are less pronounced, however at engine speeds and throttle openings we associate with "high performance" they are not, and their free flow through the intake tract is crucial to attaining highest performance.

A tuned intake, which I guaranty an $80 CAI is not, allows by design these pulses to flow in as free a manner as possible by making them not impede each other's flow at resonant frequencies, and by making them actually enhance one another's flow at other frequencies. Just as does a "tuned" exhaust.

The more expensive CAIs offered by JLT, K&N and a few others are designed with knowledge of the above; pretty pieces of straight wall tubing are not.

Serious reading if you wish to know more about all this can be found in John Heywood's Internal Combustion Fundamentals, and Charles Taylor's The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice. Volume 1 of Dr. Taylor's book really gets into the fluid flow of both intake and exhaust systems...

----------------------------------
A couple of closing comments:

The accordian pleats in the stock intake tube are not restrictive to air flow as the ID of the tube at the pleats (100+ mm) is considerably larger than either the MAF or TB. If they have any effect they most likely enhance air flow by creating a turbulent boundary layer.

In the last, and in an age of horsepower races and maximizing fuel efficiency, why would Ford design and manufacture an intake system that restricted air flow to any great degree--especially on an engine they just re-engineered (via top end chages) so as to pump it from 225 to 260 fwHP?

As Mr. Spock would say, "It is not logical."
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:22 AM   #152
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The inlet to the stock snorkel is 72 mm, a bit over 2.8", and it's ID rapidly increases to over 90 mm--you must not have ever seen one if you believe it to be "...an inch to an inch and a half in diameter...". It is there to reduce intake noise at certain engine speeds and offers very very little resistance to airflow. The perceived "power gain" from removing the snorkle is 100% placebo effect caused by the increased intake noise. Cheap aftermarket CAIs provide this same psychological "boost", for the same reason.

As to aftermarket CAIs, particularly $80 CAIs made of straight wall tubing, all they can possibly do is perhaps provide a slight power increase at some narrow rpm band--at the expense of no gain and possible power suckouts at other engine speeds.

The stock intake is a tuned system; I.e. its dimensions and therefore its resonances were engineered to enhance intake air flow across the engine's complete operating range. That is why it is NOT just a cheap piece of straight wall tubing.

There is much more to airflow in the intake tract of a multi-cylinder internal combustion engine than is commonly known or believed, the most fundamental being that it is not a contiguous flow of air but rather a series of pulses each having a lower than ambient pressure head, a near ambient pressure body and a slightly higher than ambient pressure tail. The specific properties of these pulses are of course determined by engine speed and throttle opening. At idle and lower throttle operation the pulses are less pronounced, however at engine speeds and throttle openings we associate with "high performance" they are not, and their free flow through the intake tract is crucial to attaining highest performance.

A tuned intake, which I guaranty an $80 CAI is not, allows by design these pulses to flow in as free a manner as possible by making them not impede each other's flow at resonant frequencies, and by making them actually enhance one another's flow at other frequencies. Just as does a "tuned" exhaust.

The more expensive CAIs offered by JLT, K&N and a few others are designed with knowledge of the above; pretty pieces of straight wall tubing are not.

Serious reading if you wish to know more about all this can be found in John Heywood's Internal Combustion Fundamentals, and Charles Taylor's The Internal Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice. Volume 1 of Dr. Taylor's book really gets into the fluid flow of both intake and exhaust systems...

----------------------------------
A couple of closing comments:

The accordian pleats in the stock intake tube are not restrictive to air flow as the ID of the tube at the pleats (100+ mm) is considerably larger than either the MAF or TB. If they have any effect they most likely enhance air flow by creating a turbulent boundary layer.

In the last, and in an age of horsepower races and maximizing fuel efficiency, why would Ford design and manufacture an intake system that restricted air flow to any great degree--especially on an engine they just re-engineered (via top end chages) so as to pump it from 225 to 260 fwHP?

As Mr. Spock would say, "It is not logical."
unfortunately for me i do not have a late 90's or new edge with the pi system i have a stock 96 gt with bolt ons. 215hp from the factory. all i am saying is from what i have see from my own work on the car. yes i do do my own work on the car. plus the $80 kit from SR performance is not a piece of crap it is just a cheaper variant on the market than a K&N or BBK (who want over $200-$300 for their kit that ads 15hp with a tune.) that can give your car the same amount of performance. the same money you can get all the pieces from SR Performance (CAI, 70mm or 75mm TB, Plenum, Intake Spacer) for about $360 with a tune just with the CAI you can boost the car by 15HP but for the same amount of money for just the one BIG name branded kits, (all you are paying for is the name) get the entire intake and boost the car over 32rwhp. your right that it doesn't make sense for ford to have designed an intake that is restrictive, but then again when they put these motors in our beloved mustangs they sent them from the factory tuned as a family sedan and not a muscle car. you said it yourself any stock car can have a huge improvement in performance with just a tune.

not wanting to argue or say your wrong I'm just doing what you did at the beginning of the thread stating what you have experienced or done. its just all a matter of opinion.
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Old 01-06-2014, 08:29 PM   #153
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Thanks for this post! This is gonna be a big help for me!

This March as soon as the weather breaks here in Michigan I'm having the cams changed. Would love to do the Trick Flow Heads but just too much money at this time so I'm just going with the cams for that rumpy idle and some extra power once its all dyno tuned! I'll post the power increase when it's done . Looking forward to have it tuned when it's much cooler outside too as opposed to having it done being hot and humid out last time. I'm expecting to get better numbers when it cool out too!
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:18 PM   #154
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Hey guys I'm new and I have an 03 auto gt what exhust is loud and mean trying to fix up my car ...
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:49 PM   #155
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Hey guys I'm new and I have an 03 auto gt what exhust is loud and mean trying to fix up my car ...
Head to YouTube or American Muscle and start watching some videos. Most everybody here recommends the SLP LM1s with and O/R X pipe because it's loud as ****. I personally don't like that setup though.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:40 PM   #156
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You can make a dead stock '03 GT slushbox sound "loud and mean"--however all you willl end up with is a silly sounding slug...
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:28 PM   #157
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Thanks guys what about a shifter
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:51 PM   #158
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Steeda Tri-Ax or MGW
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:53 PM   #159
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What are those
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:55 PM   #160
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Two of the best shifters on the market in my opinion.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #161
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What are those

MGW shifter is the best shifters out there for Mustangs, hands down.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #162
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Do u have a link
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:57 PM   #163
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Do u have a link
http://www.mgwltd.com
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:58 PM   #164
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Do they have automatic shifters
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:29 AM   #165
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Nope
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:11 AM   #166
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Ok
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:38 AM   #167
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So anyone here like the spacers on ur gt or take them out
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:30 PM   #168
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So anyone here like the spacers on ur gt or take them out
As in throttle body spacers? Waste of money
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Old 01-18-2014, 12:45 PM   #169
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O no I mean for the back tires sry
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:33 PM   #170
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Ah ok, most guys recommend getting the ones that have studs built in to them, I personally haven't run any sort of spacers though. I just know that you shouldn't run the other kind because they put stress on your studs.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:17 PM   #171
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Ya thanks
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:45 PM   #172
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So i recently purchased the sct 4-bank eliminator chip from AM was that a good choice?
And what should be my gains after installing it?
What should I get next?
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:47 PM   #173
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So i recently purchased the sct 4-bank eliminator chip from AM was that a good choice?
And what should be my gains after installing it?
What should I get next?

Yes it was a good choice. The tunes will be the same as any other tuner. Just a bit more difficult to switch between tunes. The gains will very depending on the mods you have already. You'll notice a big difference in throttle response and that seat of ur pants feel. As far as next mod, it would depend on what mods you currently have. Any on cliffy's list would be a good choice
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2001 GT

Engine/Drivetrain: SCT iTSX with BAMA 91 Race Tune, Airaid CAI, JBA O/R H-Pipe, SLP Power-Flo Catback, Exedy Stage 2 Clutch, Exedy Lightweight Flywheel

Suspension: H&R SuperSport Springs, KYB Shocks & Struts
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:12 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetLife 01GT View Post

Yes it was a good choice. The tunes will be the same as any other tuner. Just a bit more difficult to switch between tunes. The gains will very depending on the mods you have already. You'll notice a big difference in throttle response and that seat of ur pants feel. As far as next mod, it would depend on what mods you currently have. Any on cliffy's list would be a good choice
Its all stock but a CAI
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Old 01-27-2014, 02:25 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by to_oaxaca View Post
So i recently purchased the sct 4-bank eliminator chip from AM was that a good choice?
And what should be my gains after installing it?
What should I get next?
Exhaust next for sure man
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