99 Cobra vs. Terminator Engine Differences - Mustang Evolution

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Old 01-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #1
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99 Cobra vs. Terminator Engine Differences

I've owned a 2003 Cobra. I've done a ton of research on it, and I know that the engine is really tough. What I'm curious, is just how different is the pre-terminator engines other than the supercharger. Would like to know all differences ie, compression ratio, cam specs, bore and stroke, valve lift, metallurgy, etc. Is the engine fully aluminum? What type of rods and pistons? What size throttle body does it have? How much HP can it handle before needing internal upgrades? The reason I ask, is my father has a 99 Cobra and it has a Vortec supercharger on it already and it's been dynoed at right around 450 HP. I might be able to get it from him soon, so I'm starting to think upgrades such as smaller s/c pulley, full exhaust, throttle body, ignition, fuel, tune, pulleys, and nitrous. Just curious differences in tolerances. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:00 AM   #2
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From what I understand, the 99 cobra motor is good for around 450whp, but someone else might have a more definitive answer. The 03-04 has a forged rotating assembly, the 99 does not.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:04 AM   #3
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Build her up if your going lower pully and juice, plus a head swap to 03/04 Cobra heads would be great
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:08 AM   #4
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They are completely different yet not really

The 03 cobra has different internals
The 03 cobra has a cast iron block where as the 99 has aluminum
The heads and cams are a little different

---------- Post added at 11:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 AM ----------

Oh and the 03 has mahley internals
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:04 PM   #5
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The 99's had a cooling issue, I believe. There was something with the coolant circulation on the driver's side head. Your Pop may have already fixed the problem they had. I found this...

Quote:
The 4.6 two-valve engine coolant fill problem was "fixed" by moving the pressurized reservoir to the fan shroud, where it's at the high point of the system. The 4.6 four-valve engine still has a coolant crossover pipe at the top front of the engine, and you have to remove the plug in that pipe and fill the engine through the opening. If you simply pour coolant into the reservoir, it won't fill the engine. And despite the fact that the reservoir is pressurized, it may take forever to burp. The engine will overheat (and the heater won't work well in winter).
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:29 PM   #6
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the 03/04 cobra has forged internals (massive rods), 8.5:1 compression, different cams, heads are different, iron block vs alum block, no knock sensor, tons of other little things (dont know the specifics on all of it). Oil pan is internet as well I think. Not sure the pre 03 have oil coolers either.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:43 PM   #7
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01s have an oil cooler, Mach 1s don't. The 99 and some 01s will have the teksid block thats very strong and only weighs 85lbs.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by lee1rbc View Post
01s have an oil cooler, Mach 1s don't. The 99 and some 01s will have the teksid block thats very strong and only weighs 85lbs.
It was actually the WAP block on the 01, the teskid blocks were used late 98 early 99 year until phased out. The 03/04 Mach was called a NVH block, basically it was a 2001 block but updated to help with engine noise. The build for the Teskid blocks were 93-99 but late 99 and 01 where fords inhouse forgings.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:36 AM   #9
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The 99's had a cooling issue, I believe. There was something with the coolant circulation on the driver's side head. Your Pop may have already fixed the problem they had. I found this...

Simple Solution when having the coolant system open, replace the T-stat. when you acquire a new one look to see it it has a hole in the body. If not then drill one. alot of OEM stats have them, and this is so when you fill the system that the fluid can still flow to alleviate trapped air. If I could show you a photo on how its actually done at a factory, it be cool, but I dont really need to get into trouble, lol.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by NoStangNewb View Post
I've owned a 2003 Cobra. I've done a ton of research on it, and I know that the engine is really tough. What I'm curious, is just how different is the pre-terminator engines other than the supercharger. Would like to know all differences ie, compression ratio, cam specs, bore and stroke, valve lift, metallurgy, etc. Is the engine fully aluminum? What type of rods and pistons? What size throttle body does it have? How much HP can it handle before needing internal upgrades? The reason I ask, is my father has a 99 Cobra and it has a Vortec supercharger on it already and it's been dynoed at right around 450 HP. I might be able to get it from him soon, so I'm starting to think upgrades such as smaller s/c pulley, full exhaust, throttle body, ignition, fuel, tune, pulleys, and nitrous. Just curious differences in tolerances. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
Ok remember that adding exhaust does not add horsepower, as far as the the pulley size thats a NAH the N/A cobra is 9.85cr so keep that in mind 10lbs is plenty. adding a 3 core intercooler would help raise hp and not raise boost pressures. if you were to add say headers and exhaust, that would yield you a good increase. Its not adding hp but freeing up hp thats already there. Hope you can follow that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:04 AM   #11
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Yeah.. thanks everyone. Exhaust does actually add power. Can't believe you said that to an automotive engineer, but whatever. Look, I understand how and what to upgrade lol, I want to know the technical differences. Tolerances, specs, etc. The block differences were good to know. Like I said, I'm very familiar with the 03/04 Cobra. I already know the internals and specs, what I need is the info on the 99 cobra. Thanks.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoStangNewb View Post
Yeah.. thanks everyone. Exhaust does actually add power. Can't believe you said that to an automotive engineer, but whatever. Look, I understand how and what to upgrade lol, I want to know the technical differences. Tolerances, specs, etc. The block differences were good to know. Like I said, I'm very familiar with the 03/04 Cobra. I already know the internals and specs, what I need is the info on the 99 cobra. Thanks.
Well, ya know, we can't see the diploma on your wall. Be more descriptive in your posting and you will get the answers you need, to the best of the communities knowledge.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:41 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by NoStangNewb View Post
Yeah.. thanks everyone. Exhaust does actually add power. Can't believe you said that to an automotive engineer, but whatever. Look, I understand how and what to upgrade lol, I want to know the technical differences. Tolerances, specs, etc. The block differences were good to know. Like I said, I'm very familiar with the 03/04 Cobra. I already know the internals and specs, what I need is the info on the 99 cobra. Thanks.
Wow really the words adding to and the word unrestricting is what you have confused. And being that you are a "automotive engineer" then you should know that the block spec for a 99 cobra hasn't changed since 1993. But whatever guy, you already SHOULD know that bore and stroke are same for all 4.6l's and the real difference is piston dish between the variances. But hey all info is available from ANY ford spec sheet. Sounds like to me you asked very COMMON question with a very POMPUS attitude. I think Mr. "Automotive engineer" you need to surf the google machine and get the info.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:52 AM   #14
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Well, ya know, we can't see the diploma on your wall. Be more descriptive in your posting and you will get the answers you need, to the best of the communities knowledge.
+1
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:52 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
It was actually the WAP block on the 01, the teskid blocks were used late 98 early 99 year until phased out. The 03/04 Mach was called a NVH block, basically it was a 2001 block but updated to help with engine noise. The build for the Teskid blocks were 93-99 but late 99 and 01 where fords inhouse forgings.
my 01 had a teksid block.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by lee1rbc View Post

my 01 had a teksid block.
And what is your build date? Remember model year changes are made for the most mid year, just as ford really made 02 cobras but really they were left over 01's converted to right drive and shipped to Australia.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:17 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by lee1rbc View Post

my 01 had a teksid block.
2001 Cobra

While the 2001 Cobra shares almost all the same components of the 1999, some changes were made including:

The engine block was changed from the Teksid block to the Windsor Aluminum Plant or WAP block. The WAP block is regarded to be weaker than the previous Teksid block. Some 2001s received the Teksid, either from the factory or as a replacement motor
Revised cylinder heads.

Though the WAP block is plenty strong it is even lighter than previous.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:21 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post
And what is your build date? Remember model year changes are made for the most mid year, just as ford really made 02 cobras but really they were left over 01's converted to right drive and shipped to Australia.
My build date is 07-01. I was suprised to find my car had a teksid block because I had read that it was suppost to be a WAP block. Honestly if I knew I had a teksid block I might not have bought the Mach 1 motor oh well. Someone in California has that block now.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:24 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by lee1rbc View Post

My build date is 07-01. I was suprised to find my car had a teksid block because I had read that it was suppost to be a WAP block. Honestly if I knew I had a teksid block I might not have bought the Mach 1 motor oh well. Someone in California has that block now.
Yea and i would have had a mach shaker.... who knew lol. How you been bro, any news?
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:45 PM   #20
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Yea and i would have had a mach shaker.... who knew lol. How you been bro, any news?
lol, yeah the only thing I have left from my 01 motor is the dip stick.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:07 PM   #21
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lol, yeah the only thing I have left from my 01 motor is the dip stick.
Haha think with your dip stick jimmy
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:53 AM   #22
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Wow really the words adding to and the word unrestricting is what you have confused. And being that you are a "automotive engineer" then you should know that the block spec for a 99 cobra hasn't changed since 1993. But whatever guy, you already SHOULD know that bore and stroke are same for all 4.6l's and the real difference is piston dish between the variances. But hey all info is available from ANY ford spec sheet. Sounds like to me you asked very COMMON question with a very POMPUS attitude. I think Mr. "Automotive engineer" you need to surf the google machine and get the info.
I haven't done a lot of research on the similarities between the blocks of various styles of mustang. I figured when ford went to the modular engine in 94, and then went to the 4.6L in 96, that the entire platform was changed, but thanks for the schooling, it's good to know. And yes, i should have specified "unrestricted vs. adding to", it's just I'm so used to having to dumb everything down for people that sometimes I forget there are some people out there who can comprehend the differences. I realize that bore and stroke are the same for certain years, but I didn't realize that ALL 4.6L's had the same.. So what you're saying is that it's all the same between 96 ford vehicles to 2011 no matter if it was an explorer, expedition, f150, mustang gt, mustang cobra, crown vic, etc? They're all the same bore and stroke? That would be very interesting. What are the EXACT piston dish differences please? As for searching google.. the problem with that is you literally have to look at a ton of different sites with conflicting specs, so it's hard to know exact specs. And for the ford Spec sheets, I can't find them, so if you have a link or something, that would be better than the mockery and attitude. I'm not trying to be "pompous", but like I said, it's hard dealing with the average run of the mill backyard mechanic who really doesn't know anything. This is like 95% of people so.. If you could please start providing specifics instead of just giving vague examples that would be great, thanks.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:43 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
Well, ya know, we can't see the diploma on your wall. Be more descriptive in your posting and you will get the answers you need, to the best of the communities knowledge.

Well.. Now you can. Not used to being descriptive to people because most people don't understand engineering terms. Kinda like when a Doctor has to dumb it down for normal people. But, I guess I could have been slightly more specific, guess I was just testing the waters. Apparently, there ARE intelligent people out there who understand things LOL... So, in essence, Touche'.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by NoStangNewb View Post
I haven't done a lot of research on the similarities between the blocks of various styles of mustang. I figured when ford went to the modular engine in 94, and then went to the 4.6L in 96, that the entire platform was changed, but thanks for the schooling, it's good to know. And yes, i should have specified "unrestricted vs. adding to", it's just I'm so used to having to dumb everything down for people that sometimes I forget there are some people out there who can comprehend the differences. I realize that bore and stroke are the same for certain years, but I didn't realize that ALL 4.6L's had the same.. So what you're saying is that it's all the same between 96 ford vehicles to 2011 no matter if it was an explorer, expedition, f150, mustang gt, mustang cobra, crown vic, etc? They're all the same bore and stroke? That would be very interesting. What are the EXACT piston dish differences please? As for searching google.. the problem with that is you literally have to look at a ton of different sites with conflicting specs, so it's hard to know exact specs. And for the ford Spec sheets, I can't find them, so if you have a link or something, that would be better than the mockery and attitude. I'm not trying to be "pompous", but like I said, it's hard dealing with the average run of the mill backyard mechanic who really doesn't know anything. This is like 95% of people so.. If you could please start providing specifics instead of just giving vague examples that would be great, thanks.
Still wrong on the info guy, let me school ya. Ford first used the 4.6L in 1991, and the term Modular is actually a ENGINEERING term in house for the manufacturing process of its engine line up. The term was adopted by mainstream for classification. Any how the 4.6L started production in 91. The DOHC was first put in the Mark VIII in 1993. This engine would been know later as a Cobra engine. The first year for a Mustang or any form to have a 4.6L was a 1996. ALL 4.6L engines from 91-11 have the same 3.552 x 3.543 bore x stroke. ALL 4.6L engines have sintered forged rods (not counting the 03/04 cobra as its bottom is forged), cast pistons, and cast cranks (with the exception of the Hand built Cobra engine 99-01 and the manual 03/04 Mach which had an 8 bolt forged crank.). And I hate to tell you, but your backyard and mainstream mechanics are the guys that have the information you need, and as far as attitude you really should check your post "dumbing down" thats rude. I think you deal with to many kids, and since the Ford "Modular" engine has been in 4.6L variant for 20 years I can say you must be on the younger side. And as far as backgrounds go my degree is in Electrionic Engineering, have worked for 2 Ford dealerships, and work for one of the Largest Auto manufactures in the World GM.In my factory's engine line. The moral to this is do not come on here assuming that your talking with "run of the mill" people and post as if your the Britannica of automotive. You need to work on social skills my friend, and not seem so much as a tool. And Most backyard and or mainstream mechanics have to repair or re engineer the flaws that book time engineers create. So for future references for this community and you please do not assume. I hope I answered your question for Block specs have been answered.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:31 AM   #25
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:39 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by 32vNomad View Post

Still wrong on the info guy, let me school ya. Ford first used the 4.6L in 1991, and the term Modular is actually a ENGINEERING term in house for the manufacturing process of its engine line up. The term was adopted by mainstream for classification. Any how the 4.6L started production in 91. The DOHC was first put in the Mark VIII in 1993. This engine would been know later as a Cobra engine. The first year for a Mustang or any form to have a 4.6L was a 1996. ALL 4.6L engines from 91-11 have the same 3.552 x 3.543 bore x stroke. ALL 4.6L engines have sintered forged rods (not counting the 03/04 cobra as its bottom is forged), cast pistons, and cast cranks (with the exception of the Hand built Cobra engine 99-01 and the manual 03/04 Mach which had an 8 bolt forged crank.). And I hate to tell you, but your backyard and mainstream mechanics are the guys that have the information you need, and as far as attitude you really should check your post "dumbing down" thats rude. I think you deal with to many kids, and since the Ford "Modular" engine has been in 4.6L variant for 20 years I can say you must be on the younger side. And as far as backgrounds go my degree is in Electrionic Engineering, have worked for 2 Ford dealerships, and work for one of the Largest Auto manufactures in the World GM.In my factory's engine line. The moral to this is do not come on here assuming that your talking with "run of the mill" people and post as if your the Britannica of automotive. You need to work on social skills my friend, and not seem so much as a tool. And Most backyard and or mainstream mechanics have to repair or re engineer the flaws that book time engineers create. So for future references for this community and you please do not assume. I hope I answered your question for Block specs have been answered.
Nice touch at the end : banana:
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:16 AM   #27
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Nice touch at the end : banana:
just something fun
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:02 PM   #28
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So OP, it appears that you have learned a few things and then some.
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