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Old 10-04-2013, 09:40 AM   #1
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2v to 4v swap??

What all is involved in swapping a 2v to 4v? I mean is it just a difference in the heads or is it a completely different head and block combination all together? I have a small valve stem seal leak and I kno i will essentially have to rebuild the whole top end I the motor so i figured I nigh as well upgrade to some 4v heads if that's all that the difference is.
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:50 AM   #2
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What all is involved in swapping a 2v to 4v? I mean is it just a difference in the heads or is it a completely different head and block combination all together? I have a small valve stem seal leak and I kno i will essentially have to rebuild the whole top end I the motor so i figured I nigh as well upgrade to some 4v heads if that's all that the difference is.

Block & crank / heads&cams / compression / Etc.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:55 AM   #3
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Pretty much a different engine.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:33 PM   #4
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There's a swap thread going on here right now if you'd search lol. Its not as easy as some will tell you but its not super duper hard either. I'd say about 90% drop in but that 10% is full of "gotchas" and honestly I don't see the advantage to the 4V at all anymore. Maybe back in the day if you wanted to go over 600whp easily you'd need 4V but not meow. Plenty of 2V builds making ridiculous power.

IMO only reason to go 4V is for cheap NA power with a B headed engine out of a Mark VIII. Start throwing power adders at them and its pretty much a wash until you start to approach 4 figure horsepower.

The exception is the Terminator motor but that's because its fully forged/built right from the factory already.
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:45 AM   #5
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Search bar. Has a few detailed builds and believe ones a sticky
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:09 AM   #6
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Uhm correction 96 to the terminator cobras are forged, along with the mach 1 (?) also. Mark viii are not forged along with cam intake and exhaust manifolds differences. The block is the same bolt pattern as a 4v. Its aluminum and lighter than the 2v. The swap is not complicated if you take your time. I rushed a bit on my swap and now having to correct little things I overlooked or forgot about.

Don't let us influence what you do. If you want to go 4v then go for it. Just do your research and make sure you are more than up to the challenge. 32vNomad Bgrim and myself have done or are in the process of this swap. We all would be more than happy to give our insight on this. But I will suggest this, instead of doing a head swap find a complete 4v its cheaper to go that way than just doing heads intake and chains.
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:38 PM   #7
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Uhm correction 96 to the terminator cobras are forged, along with the mach 1 (?) also. Mark viii are not forged along with cam intake and exhaust manifolds differences. The block is the same bolt pattern as a 4v. Its aluminum and lighter than the 2v. The swap is not complicated if you take your time. I rushed a bit on my swap and now having to correct little things I overlooked or forgot about.
Nope, only the 03/04 Terminators are fully forged. 96-99 and the 01 Cobras had a forged crankshaft and thats it. Same crap rods and pistons as the 2V. Blocks changed in 2001 from the Teksid to the WAP. Yes the Mark VIII has a different manifold and cams but they will work and work well in Mustang. Or drop $300-$500 on a Cobra intake, another $125 for the throttle cable and $200 for the Cobra intake cams for not that great of a gain honestly.

Also, some 2Vs came with the WAP blocks. If you get an 02-05 Explorer PI motor its a WAP and a great pullout candidate to swap into your Mustang that needs a new motor.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:19 PM   #8
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Nope, only the 03/04 Terminators are fully forged. 96-99 and the 01 Cobras had a forged crankshaft and thats it. Same crap rods and pistons as the 2V. Blocks changed in 2001 from the Teksid to the WAP. Yes the Mark VIII has a different manifold and cams but they will work and work well in Mustang. Or drop $300-$500 on a Cobra intake, another $125 for the throttle cable and $200 for the Cobra intake cams for not that great of a gain honestly. Also, some 2Vs came with the WAP blocks. If you get an 02-05 Explorer PI motor its a WAP and a great pullout candidate to swap into your Mustang that needs a new motor.
Would you be better getting a teskid block and picking up forged internals?
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:32 PM   #9
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Would you be better getting a teskid block and picking up forged internals?
I went that route and it can get a little pricey because some teksid blocks might have unforeseen problems that cause more work. Although I'm excited about my forged, crammed, teksid blocked, 2v. It's gonna be worth it in my eyes at least.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:14 AM   #10
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I went that route and it can get a little pricey because some teksid blocks might have unforeseen problems that cause more work. Although I'm excited about my forged, crammed, teksid blocked, 2v. It's gonna be worth it in my eyes at least.
Well my dad is part owner in a scrap yard.. Mainly scrap metal but the other owner manages. A junkyard so I like to keep my eyes open for things that come in.. We see a lot of 97-07 f159 with 5.4.. In my dreams lol..
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #11
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Thanks guys I'm just testing the waters right now, as I am a new mustang owner, I really appreciate all the help
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #12
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I picked up a lower mileage Teksid shortblock out of a 98 Cobra that blew up a piston for $250. Ripped out the pistons/rods, crank is already forged. ZERO damage/scarring that I can see in the cylinder that lost the piston and the same for the others. Going to have it checked out locally and if I can get away with a simple hone to factory specs I will be going that route. Gives me the dirt cheap option to use pullout Terminator rods/pistons paired with the Forged crank I already have. Including the hone job AND ARP studs I would be into a fully forged shortblock capable of pretty much whatever I can throw at it for under $1k. But that is ONLY if the bores check to factory.

With that said. ANY modular block is good for more power than 99% of ppl will ever make. The WAP block and the WAP derivatives are generally considered the weakest and will still hold plenty of power. The modular Aluminator is a WAP, not a Teksid.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:31 PM   #13
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I picked up a lower mileage Teksid shortblock out of a 98 Cobra that blew up a piston for $250. Ripped out the pistons/rods, crank is already forged. ZERO damage/scarring that I can see in the cylinder that lost the piston and the same for the others. Going to have it checked out locally and if I can get away with a simple hone to factory specs I will be going that route. Gives me the dirt cheap option to use pullout Terminator rods/pistons paired with the Forged crank I already have. Including the hone job AND ARP studs I would be into a fully forged shortblock capable of pretty much whatever I can throw at it for under $1k. But that is ONLY if the bores check to factory.

With that said. ANY modular block is good for more power than 99% of ppl will ever make. The WAP block and the WAP derivatives are generally considered the weakest and will still hold plenty of power. The modular Aluminator is a WAP, not a Teksid.
I'm waiting for those parts to come along to do the same kind of swap in my 00'. My question would be though, since these engines are internally balanced, wouldn't you have to get the crank balanced with the (new-used) rods and pistons?
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:05 PM   #14
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I picked up a lower mileage Teksid shortblock out of a 98 Cobra that blew up a piston for $250. Ripped out the pistons/rods, crank is already forged. ZERO damage/scarring that I can see in the cylinder that lost the piston and the same for the others. Going to have it checked out locally and if I can get away with a simple hone to factory specs I will be going that route. Gives me the dirt cheap option to use pullout Terminator rods/pistons paired with the Forged crank I already have. Including the hone job AND ARP studs I would be into a fully forged shortblock capable of pretty much whatever I can throw at it for under $1k. But that is ONLY if the bores check to factory. With that said. ANY modular block is good for more power than 99% of ppl will ever make. The WAP block and the WAP derivatives are generally considered the weakest and will still hold plenty of power. The modular Aluminator is a WAP, not a Teksid.
Yeah man. I got my teksid block, internals, and b series 4v head for $350 total. Block just needed a tiny bit of work. The deals are out there.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:40 AM   #15
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Forged internals? That is a ridiculous steal if so. I'm not a huge fan of B heads at all. Don't like the secondary ports getting gunked up and dealing with IMRCs although you can delete them. With Lincoln Continental heads going for $200 I see 0 reason not to upgrade to the C heads. Even the unrevised C heads are better than the B heads and any good porter can do a little work on the short turn radius and unshroud the valves to make them flow better than the revised heads. Also ppl want an arm and a leg for the 96-98 Cobra intakes and $150 for even used throttle cables because they are discontinued. Blah.

Edit:

Also getting back on topic for the 2V to 4V swap. Another thing people always think is "4v heads are so much more money than 2V heads". This is false if you are going with TFS heads. Full port jobs and having the 4V heads completely gone through is around $2k and you bring the heads so around $2200 if you got a good price on your C heads. That's what TFS heads cost.

You can also save money going with 96-98 Cobra cams vs paying $700 for 2V cams. However, you can get a set of ported PI heads for $1500 which will support more than most ppl are looking to make and then sell your 2V heads for a few $hundred to bring it down to $1300 or so. Also the 2V has the benefit of less parasitic drivetrain loss, more room in the engine bay, lighter weight and honestly less to go wrong.

I still think of going 4V sometimes though. I need to get a quote from my porter or just bringing unrevised C heads up to a little better than Revised C head spec and rolling with some 96-98 Cobra cams and a Terminator blower setup. Honestly might be cheaper than a 2V Tork Tech/KB setup.

Still gotta do some pricing but I've got $4k on my last bonus payment dropping in the spring and already shotgunned it and the wife is OK with it. $4k with my penchant for used parts will probably get me a motor and a good 3650 trans. For the rear I may have to skim a little of tax returns and not mention it... lol.

edit 2: There is NOTHING wrong with used parts either. I built a 302 from scratch for $2500 that made 301/325 to the wheels with ****ty longtubes and shot fuel injectors. I'm pretty sure with some more tuning, headers that weren't mismatched to the ports of the heads and fresh fuel injectors it would have made 325+ to the wheels easy.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:10 PM   #16
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So with all of this being said, could a 03-04 cobra block bolt up to a 00 GT auto transmission?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:16 PM   #17
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So with all of this being said, could a 03-04 cobra block bolt up to a 00 GT auto transmission?
Yes. And assuming you have a Windsor block in yours already, its gonna be an 8 bolt crank just like the Cobra crank. So you can use the same flywheel.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:28 PM   #18
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Alright cause I've been weighing my options out.
1.) build my 2V inside n out

2.) buy my friends coyote for 4K but he wants it all at once and I'm not made out of money

3.) 2V to 4V swap

Or just get a used crate motor for NA power
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #19
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Honestly have you ever driven a 400whp RWD car before? If not I'd suggest supercharging the PI motor and having fun with that for awhile and build a bulletproof motor on the side. Then you just drop the new motor in when you are done, swap out the S trim for a T or YSI trim, upgrade the fuel system and roll.

Also your automatic trans will have to be built to take more than around 500whp. What is the rest of your driveline like? Wheels/tires? Suspension? Put a Cobra motor in an otherwise stock Mustang with a stock driveline and I guarantee the 98 GT in my sig will win in a light to light race.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:33 AM   #20
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Well I drove my uncles c10 before it had a built motor he claimed to have round 3-400 hp. But as far as my car I'm doing suspension first and I'm going for a shift kit, valve body and a good converter for my trans. As far as the motor just a bama tune and a CAi
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:59 AM   #21
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Do the J-mod, don't waste your money on an aftermarket valve body or shift kit. If you can install a shift kit you can do the J-mod.

For converters look up "Freakshow Performance" on Google and give him a call. Great prices and great converters.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:42 AM   #22
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I'm scared to do the jmod to be honest. I was gonna take it to a shop and have it done.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:45 AM   #23
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If you can follow directions and are ok with hand tools you can do the j-mod but if you aren't comfortable you aren't comfortable. Might be able to call around if there are any Mustang specific or Mustang heavy speed shops. Odds are a guy working there will have done it or be good to do it but probably something on the side for cash. Which is fine honestly.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:48 AM   #24
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Yeah that's what I'll prolly go with. Transmission are to complicated for me
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:56 AM   #25
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Its not really getting into the guts of it. Did you watch the youtube video? Pull the pan, just a bunch of bolts and then boring out a few holes with a carbide drill bit. And removing a few springs.
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