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Old 12-09-2013, 09:48 AM   #1
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Would I waste money?

BE wasting my money on patriot stage 2 heads?
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:53 AM   #2
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I think most people will tell you save the money for F/I since you won't really see that big of gains with heads and I think the stock ones can support upwards of 400hp.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #3
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^ agreed
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #4
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I was originally going f/I but I wanna build my engine first.... 140k miles on her and I love this car so I will have it for a long time. I kind of want to take it slow and rebuild her, forged internals, new heads/ cams etc. then run some high boost through it!
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #5
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How much are the heads?
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:23 AM   #6
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http://www.rpmoutlet.com/musv8sniper.htm
+ hitech stage 2 or comp can 278's
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #7
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It says they're oem castings
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #8
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Yeah... I'm leaning more towards tfs twisted wedge I was just wondering if anyone has used these patriot stage 2's and if they liked them
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:19 PM   #9
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I have never personally used them. With that said there were a TON of reports of people having issues with them. Where are you located btw? If you are near NJ we have a local porting wizard in North NJ who sells fully ported PI heads for $1500 and they are proven at the track.

But honestly nowadays they should be fine, pretty sure I read they sorted all their issues out a long time ago. I know one guy on the corral right now is pushing 800hp through a single turbo and Patriot heads.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:19 PM   #10
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I haven't researched them in a while but about a year ago they were having big issues with valve seals going bad on their heads
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:24 PM   #11
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Also regarding the TFS heads. Honestly they are overkill on anything but a max power NA build or if you want more than 700-800whp on a forced induction app. PLENTY of guys pushing those levels or higher on fully ported PI heads.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:27 PM   #12
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I have never personally used them. With that said there are a TON of reports of people having issues with them. Where are you located btw? If you are near NJ we have a local porting wizard in North NJ who sells fully ported PI heads for $1500 and they are proven at the track.
I'm located in Florida:/ but looking on mmr they sell ported pi heads for. 1400. Would I still have to worry about ptv issues with these? I plan on running a decent size cam and the main reason I was interested in the tfs heads is because they don't have this issue. Also would ported pi heads give me numbers within range of what tfs states?
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:11 PM   #13
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Well what is your budget? For new TFS heads and cams you are looking at $3k+. Oh, also, Patriot closed up shop sometime last year but obviously there is still a supply of their stuff out there.

Also what is your goal? Because by the time you do heads/cams etc... you'll be in it for way more than a supercharger. And from what it sounds like you are going to be on the stock rotating assembly so I'll ask you... would you rather have 300whp or 400whp? Blower on stock PI heads and cams will do 400whp no problem and bone stock driveability/gas mileage as long as you keep your foot out of it.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:24 PM   #14
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Budget I'd like to keep around 4k, but it's my daily driver and I'm really just looking for a little extra spunk to it, nothing ridiculous lol. I've read on some other forums guys with tfs top end/cams and supporting mods make 330-350 whp. I would be more than happy with these numbers for the time being! I called a local shop that is very reputable and they said 1200 for install of head and cams and an additional 200 for dyno tune. There's just a lot of post steering me away from patriot heads.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:23 PM   #15
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Budget I'd like to keep around 4k, but it's my daily driver and I'm really just looking for a little extra spunk to it, nothing ridiculous lol. I've read on some other forums guys with tfs top end/cams and supporting mods make 330-350 whp. I would be more than happy with these numbers for the time being! I called a local shop that is very reputable and they said 1200 for install of head and cams and an additional 200 for dyno tune. There's just a lot of post steering me away from patriot heads.
I have been in your position. My car doesn't have nearly as many miles as yours and I stumbled on one hellova deal. So I went S/c although not installed yet. I'll run it while I build a motor though. Yes fully ported heads will flow as good as tfs. But tfs fully ported flow even better a lot of guys here are all about $. Yes tfs will cost more. But if you want it, buy it. If you buy a s/c like I did first, start building a motor in your garage. If you don't have a garage, throw out the kitchen table and replace it with a engine stand
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:56 AM   #16
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I have been in your position. My car doesn't have nearly as many miles as yours and I stumbled on one hellova deal. So I went S/c although not installed yet. I'll run it while I build a motor though. Yes fully ported heads will flow as good as tfs. But tfs fully ported flow even better a lot of guys here are all about $. Yes tfs will cost more. But if you want it, buy it. If you buy a s/c like I did first, start building a motor in your garage. If you don't have a garage, throw out the kitchen table and replace it with a engine stand
No they will not. TFS heads out of the box flow better than even the most ported PI head. This is not to say that ported PI heads are bad, on a 281 pushing 20 PSI they make ridiculous power and you save about $800 depending. $800 might be a lot to one person but to someone putting $10k into a motor and wanting max power it might be chump change.

Regardless with $4k and having to pay a shop to do all the labor the OP is not going to get a Head/Cam install or a supercharger because he's looking probably more like $5k out the door when all is said and done. Plus if the rest of the car doesn't have all the supporting mods its not going to be as good as he thinks. I'd do suspension and handling with the bolt on PI motor and a handheld programmer tuned for 93 octane and just enjoy it if its a DD that needs to be reliable.

As I've said in many other posts, horsepower means nothing if you can't get it to the ground. I have personally seen bolt on 2V cars beat brand new Coyotes at the track. Yes the Coyote is about to fly right by them at the end but the 2V still ran a better time. Conversely I've seen cars making hundreds of hp less than others run much better times at the 1/4. Good example is an auto swapped ported eaton Terminator with suspension/slicks running 10s and a GT500 owner claiming to make 800+ to the tires on stock suspension can't break past low 11s.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:45 AM   #17
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Ok so I have the opportunity to buy a vortech v2 t trim, under 2k miles on it. What would you offer someone for this.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:53 AM   #18
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Entire kit? $1500-$1800 but only if it has EVERYTHING and the blower is in good shape. Cash talks.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:57 AM   #19
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Entire kit? $1500-$1800 but only if it has EVERYTHING and the blower is in good shape. Cash talks.
sorry forget to state it's only the head unit and a bov.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:02 PM   #20
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Offer him $600 cash on the spot, stay under $800 though. Since you can buy the rest of the parts for cheap on superchargersonline.com the word is out on these headunits and they aren't the $500 they used to be... Just make sure its in good shape/spins freely, no play in/out/up/down in the shaft and no bent blades.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:06 PM   #21
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Offer him $600 cash on the spot, stay under $800 though. Since you can buy the rest of the parts for cheap on superchargersonline.com the word is out on these headunits and they aren't the $500 they used to be... Just make sure its in good shape/spins freely, no play in/out/up/down in the shaft and no bent blades.
awesome! Thanks, he said he just had it sent in and rebuilt, and has put 2k approx. on it since then! I'll see if I can snatch this up and start this process.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:08 PM   #22
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Yeah that is a prime target IMO. The V2 is the quieter one but still bugs into your oil pan for its lubrication unlike the V3 that is self contained. Honestly I have no problem with the V1/V2 that need to do this, you're going to be getting fresh oil into it at all times.

Just make sure you see the receipt or some sort of email traffic/proof that he had it rebuilt. If he doesn't have it I'd walk away even if he is a buddy.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:31 PM   #23
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Oh yeah, btw called a shop that's very reputable close by (figured they would be steep priced) and they quoted me 2200 cam install/ valve springs/ degree.... That's kind of ridiculous isn't it? Or am I just stupid lol. Please someone enlighten me. That's what drove me away from the cam idea.
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