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Old 04-08-2014, 10:33 PM   #1
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IRS Swap??

I'm debating on things. I'm building my 2002 Mustang GT to be an aggressive looking, sounding, and performing street car. It's only got 77,000 original. I really think for what I'm going for an IRS Swap,T56 transmission and a procharger w/ intercooler would be best option. Any opinion or suggestions of what you think I should do would be helpful. Maybe a motor swap something? Also looks wise my car is laser red tinted so opinions on wheels or body kits would be great. Here's where I stand as of now.

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Old 04-08-2014, 10:41 PM   #2
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For the IRS swap talk to JDF, its a fairly straightforward swap..... As for the T-56 swap, i have been planning to do one at the end of summer, so i'll keep posted.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:48 PM   #3
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Just me but I would skip out on that irs boat anchor and stay with the straight axle. Less problems and noise in the long run.
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:56 PM   #4
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Just me but I would skip out on that irs boat anchor and stay with the straight axle. Less problems and noise in the long run.
Think of weight distribution though..... Yea its a bit heavier, but these cars are already pretty nose heavy, so unless he is planning for an aluminum block and tons of weight reduction up front the added weight in the back when cornering may not be too bad.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:03 PM   #5
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For the IRS swap talk to JDF, its a fairly straightforward swap..... As for the T-56 swap, i have been planning to do one at the end of summer, so i'll keep posted.
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Just me but I would skip out on that irs boat anchor and stay with the straight axle. Less problems and noise in the long run.
My car weighs 3390 without me in it, it's not light but it's not exactly heavy. I don't have any noise issues from it and enjoy having a slightly better riding car.

OP what do you want to know about doing an IRS swap? I'm definitely an expert on doing them, but I'm here to help.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:04 PM   #6
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Think of weight distribution though..... Yea its a bit heavier, but these cars are already pretty nose heavy, so unless he is planning for an aluminum block and tons of weight reduction up front the added weight in the back when cornering may not be too bad.
I agree with you, I've always been partial to the straight axle. My cousin has an 00gt supercharged pushing 600hp and hooks up pretty well. If the op was going to do some road racing I agree irs, but for drag racing straight axle. After swaping one out of an 01 cobra it has become my least favorite mustang mod. Btw nice Bullitt
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:07 PM   #7
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I agree with you, I've always been partial to the straight axle. My cousin has an 00gt supercharged pushing 600hp and hooks up pretty well. If the op was going to do some road racing I agree irs, but for drag racing straight axle. After swaping one out of an 01 cobra it has become my least favorite mustang mod. Btw nice Bullitt
Once upon a time I was going to IRS swap but then I just decided to build my straight axle instead.... And thanks.
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:22 PM   #8
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Lower it. And Mach 1 chin. That's really all you need for looks
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Old 04-09-2014, 06:33 AM   #9
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IRS is going to be better for driving and handling and that is just a fact. And the Ford IRS is an SLA setup which makes it even better (unless every IRS is but I'm not an every car expert). The big issue with the Ford IRS is the stock compliant rubber bushings which can be fixed with a $700 kit from Full Tilt Boogie racing.

As far as weight, by the time you hang a torque arm and panhard bar/watts link on a SRA you are right at or pretty damn close to IRS weight so that is kind of a pointless argument. For cost of building them... if you've got an 03/04 you've got the good axles and with the FTBR kit its going to be pretty rock solid. Wheel hop is what causes the most issues with snapping IRS axles (half shafts) and the FTBR kit eliminates it.

As far as the INSTALL... with a 99-04 car its almost a direct swap. You have to play with the brake line routing and ABS but the bolt holes and everything are already there. Just be aware you also do need the right driveshaft flange for the IRS as it is different than the SRA but that's easy.

As far as a T-56... unless you NEED that extra gear between 4th and your final overdrive its a waste of money and extra weight. The Cobra T-56 (or a close ratio magnum) has a final overdrive of .62, your current trans already has that for 5th gear since you are an 02-04. You would be getting a .80 5th gear as an addition, not some crazy super deep omfg overdrive like everyone seems to think.

Also if you are swapping a Cobra T-56 in you have to be aware of the 2.66 1st gear which is a very VERY bad idea on a NA 2V unless you are running 4.30s or steeper and even then... Even a wide ratio T-56 or Magnum with the 2.97 1st is going to hurt your launches with a NA 2V. A 3650's 1st gear is a 3.37 for comparison and the T-56 is not any stronger than the 3650 either. The MAGNUM is but you are looking at $4k for a new Magnum/bell/driveshaft/crossmember before even thinking of upgrading to a SFI bell. If you are looking cheaper, figure $1500-$2k for a complete used Cobra T-56 swap kit but then, like I said, you are stuck with a 2.66 1st gear and even if you procharge you are not going to be into full spool until the 4k RPM range which means it's going to be a dog in 1st unless you do full spool drops leaving from every stoplight lol. Or put 4.30s-4.56s in and lose the ability to cruise on the highway at any sort of respectable RPM.


I'm sorry if I seem like a Debbie Downer on the T-56 but I don't see it as any sort of worth it at all unless you are a road racer and need the .80 5th gear to keep yourself in the powerband vs having a big gap between 1.00 and .62. The 3650 is strong enough to take anything that the stock bottom end can which is around 425rwhp you just have to make sure you have followed the TSB to stop overfilling it and use a good fluid. Factory fill was 3.8 qts, this has proven to create windage problems and is one of the reasons the 3650 is known to have issues shifting when cold. CORRECT fill is now 3.2 qts and I highly, HIGHLY recommend Pennzoil Synchromesh for a 3650, that stuff is like mothers milk for those transmissions.

So sorry I wrote a book just now but I hope this helped, I just got into work and am full of coffee and have no tickets dropped yet so I'm hyper as hell and need an outlet lol. And if your 3650 is on the way out which is why you are doing a trans swap, just buy a new 3650 on ebay for $1060 shipped to your door with no core charge. That's where I got mine and they are still selling them. I can't get to the link from work but I think the ebay username is "mantrans". They are a transmission shop located in Minnesota and do good work. A fresh stock rebuilt 3650 with all the TSBs done is good for 500ft lbs and will shift fine at 6200-6500 rpm with a good fluid and a good shifter. Save yourself a ton of money and stick with the 3650 and put that money towards suspension to help get the power to the ground if you do procharge.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:08 AM   #10
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I just want to hang in the turns with that 350z and pass him in the straights. I don't want to drag race never wanted to. I like to be different and build something that when you see your like wow why is a mustang at the track not a strip. Then when I get off the track people get a different view of a mustang and want to start doing it to theirs because in the mustang world it's not balanced probably 70%+ drag their car. I don't want to be a majority plus I want to shut my friends mouth up about his 350z being better

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Old 04-09-2014, 07:11 AM   #11
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So any helpful tips on if I could build my straight axle to do what I need would be great. Also my buddy has a 00' GT and he did a twin screw on his 2v if I have to do something like that I'm fine or even turbos whatever would be better I'll do to get where I need but before I go buying things I want to know what I'm buying and why and what it'll do for me the goods and the bads.

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Old 04-09-2014, 07:15 AM   #12
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Welp, then you are going to want to do a max motorsports front K setup with coilovers, the IRS with a FTBR setup out back and coilovers, a good wheel/tire setup and some extra power and you should go right around it depending on what he has done to it but I know those things can be setup to handle pretty well.

And then if you eventually do get ahead of him there are going to be a ton of cars still faster and nothing is going to stop him from modding his car more. He who spends the most usually wins.

edit: the straight axle can be setup to do great on the road course but the big issue is one wheel going over a burm with the SRA is going to move the whole rear vs just the one wheel on a IRS. Also you are going to spend a ****ton on the SRA doing a watts link and everything and that makes it less and less street friendly. I see 0 reason to build the SRA unless you are going to drag race the car.
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:49 AM   #13
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So any helpful tips on if I could build my straight axle to do what I need would be great. Also my buddy has a 00' GT and he did a twin screw on his 2v if I have to do something like that I'm fine or even turbos whatever would be better I'll do to get where I need but before I go buying things I want to know what I'm buying and why and what it'll do for me the goods and the bads.

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I know you've got all these big plans, but get out to a few track days and learn how the car drives before you start throwing some big money at it.
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Old 04-09-2014, 12:16 PM   #14
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I mean I have and I'm really not worried about all the other people Im just competing against friends. Someone somewhere will always have a better car just I want mine to stand out with my friends.

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Old 04-09-2014, 01:29 PM   #15
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Here are the ratios for the TR3650 and T56

TR3650:
1) 3.380
2) 2.000
3) 1.320
4) 1.000
5) .68/.62 ('01 is 6.8, 02+ is .62)

T-56:
1) 2.660
2) 1.780
3) 1.300
4) 1.000
5) .8000
6) .6200


So keep in mind what all you have planned for the car, with the T56 you will get a bit more out of each gear, but that means you will go through them slower. IF you do go with a T-56 make sure you've got some good gears and some good power, ESPECIALLY good low end so you don't lug through the gears. Thats why cars like the Cobra with a twin screw and the F-body LS1s came with them.

I've got the '01 TR3650 in mine (.68 ratio) and I've driven my dad's Corvette with the T-56 several times and honestly I like the ratios a lot better in the Corvette (yea there is a power gap, but i'm speaking from ratios only right now)...... I'm not saying which route to go because that is up to you and what you want to do, just keep all this in mind. As of right now i will be putting in 4.10s and also have got a special plan for my engine which is why i will be going with the T-56. I like straight line speed and corners, so for the most part i like having more/better gears to choose from.

Now for the IRS vs SRA. In the long run the IRS will be better for cornering. I chose to build my SRA because it can perform damn near as well as IRS on a flat road (bumps are a different story). So as of next week my suspension set up for my SRA will be: MM Subframe Connectors, MM LCAs, MM Panhard Bar, MM Torque Arm... In the future i plan to go with the Kenny Brown Jacking Rails & Subframe Matrix to be welded to my Subframe connectors, and then the MM coilover conversion front and rear, as well as their K member and A Arms.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:38 PM   #16
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^ Don't get Kenny Brown, it is junk. Get Global West or Stiffler's. Also you only posted the close ratio T-56 found in the Cobra. The F bodies got the wide ratio unit which is:

2.97
2.1
1.46
1
.74
.50

Little better for low end but the .50 is a little too much for a modular IMO. You can custom order and mix/match the two overdrives in the new ones though. Like a 2.97, 2.1, 1.46, 1.00, .80 and .62 if you wanted.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:40 PM   #17
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^ Don't get Kenny Brown, it is junk. Get Global West or Stiffler's.
hmm, i heard good things about them... I'll check out those places.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:43 PM   #18
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hmm, i heard good things about them... I'll check out those places.
Check the dates of the threads you are looking at, there was a lot of hype and buildup when KB first started making stuff. And yes they are crap compared to the two I posted. The Global West ones give you a ****ton of ground clearance too compared to normal subframes.
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:57 AM   #19
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A suggestion for wheels FR500's possibly the black or black chrome 17"/9"in the front with NITTO NT555's 275/40-17 and 17"/10.5" deep dish in the rear with NITTO NT555's 315/35-17. Looks amazing on that color stang in my opinion. I'm sure it will turn out great when it's finished
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Old 04-18-2014, 08:05 AM   #20
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As far as weight my car went from 3960# to 3640# with nothing but a sra swap. That's a big difference regardless of where it came from. Doing a tubular front setup would even it back out front to rear. I broke too many pieces to keep throwing parts at the irs and my car only makes 500 to the wheels.

Btw, I was 50/50 breaking parts on the track vs the street. Last straw was snapping my 2nd halfshaft on a 1-2 shift on the street on street tires. No hop, just straight hooked a powershift.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:16 AM   #21
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Lower it. And Mach 1 chin. That's really all you need for looks
It is lowered on H&R super sports but still has 17s got 18s at the house debating on tires to fill up gap in rear and keep same gap maybe a little less in front. I want gaps to be as even as possible.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:20 AM   #22
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A suggestion for wheels FR500's possibly the black or black chrome 17"/9"in the front with NITTO NT555's 275/40-17 and 17"/10.5" deep dish in the rear with NITTO NT555's 315/35-17. Looks amazing on that color stang in my opinion. I'm sure it will turn out great when it's finished
I got the 10th anniversary Cobras anthracite in 18x9 and 18x10. Tough choice on tires since I'm not the richest plus still owe some on the car. I don't want to roll my fenders so largest I go is 285 but might be going 245/40 or 255/40 up front and 275/40 in rear maybe 285/40 if I can find some to match.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
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I got the 10th anniversary Cobras anthracite in 18x9 and 18x10. Tough choice on tires since I'm not the richest plus still owe some on the car. I don't want to roll my fenders so largest I go is 285 but might be going 245/40 or 255/40 up front and 275/40 in rear maybe 285/40 if I can find some to match.

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Too tall of a tire. On both my gt and cobra I run 275/35-18 on 18x9. Rear on gt is 295/35-18, cobra is 305/35-18.

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Old 04-18-2014, 02:38 PM   #24
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Too tall of a tire. On both my gt and cobra I run 275/35-18 on 18x9. Rear on gt is 295/35-18, cobra is 305/35-18.

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Old 04-18-2014, 08:41 PM   #25
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Those are not too tall. I'm running a 26.6" rear and a 26.3" front and I wish I would have gone 27" out back sometimes. Plenty of room left and my car is lowered and a 98 which has less fender room than a 99-04. Much smoother ride with the taller sidewalls too.

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Old 04-18-2014, 09:08 PM   #26
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Those are definitely not too tall. A 27" tire looks good on the NE. Anything else looks like "cookie cutters" as Scotty would say, which I agree with.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:14 PM   #27
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Those are definitely not too tall. A 27" tire looks good on the NE. Anything else looks like "cookie cutters" as Scotty would say, which I agree with.
"Roller Skates". Hell the previous wheels on mine were 25.7 out back and 25.3 up front... I HATE when ppl put small diameter tires on a car that already has too small of tires. Only thing I'm running into with my wheels is that I really feel 18x9s are too wide for a SN95 front... I love the way the car looks but I may go to a slightly narrower AMR setup at 18x8/18x10 vs the 18x9/18x10.5 that is on there now. Tires would actually fit better.
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Old 04-18-2014, 09:55 PM   #28
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"Roller Skates". Hell the previous wheels on mine were 25.7 out back and 25.3 up front... I HATE when ppl put small diameter tires on a car that already has too small of tires. Only thing I'm running into with my wheels is that I really feel 18x9s are too wide for a SN95 front... I love the way the car looks but I may go to a slightly narrower AMR setup at 18x8/18x10 vs the 18x9/18x10.5 that is on there now. Tires would actually fit better.
Damn my bad on misquote lol. I actually thought about upgrading to 19s so i can run a larger diameter wheel without the giant sidewall, at least in the rear. I want to run a 27-27.5" tire. These 285/35-18s just ain't cutting it right now.
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Old 04-19-2014, 02:40 PM   #29
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Honestly having seen how mine sit I will never go below 26" again. My only issue is the damn tire sizing I have going on now as far as the width but that can be fixed with new rims or just suck it up and buy some 255 or 265s. I will say even with the very wide BFGs you want a 255 for a 9" rim and a 285 for a 10.5". A 275 BFG would be perfect on a 10" wide rim which is the internal debate I am having now with myself. Sell these rims and get some 18x8/18x10 or just deal with it for a year or whatever. I'm OCD whenever I drive my car now lol.
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