Stupid integrated bellhousing trannies... 3650 swap done...almost - Mustang Evolution

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Old 05-24-2014, 07:04 PM   #1
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Stupid integrated bellhousing trannies... 3650 swap done...almost

First off, I have never done THIS swap before and this is my first modular. Every single thread I read on this (and I read alot) stated that for the crossmember I would only have to notch a useless metal tab on the trans housing itself and my stock crossmember and mount would work. Well... nope. Just had to drop $160 on a Stiffler's tubular adjustable crossmember designed for t-45s or a swapped 3650 in 96-98 GTs. Cobra might work because the crossmember is moved back already.

Anyway, cut off that metal tab which is pissing me off because I wouldn't have to if I'd had the right crossmember and a new mount beforehand. Its not going to hurt it but I'm OCD and I need to get back under there and smooth it flush to the housing. At any rate I DID have to cut it to rig in the stock setup with like 4 stacked thick washers to shim it up enough to clear and then nurse the car home from the lift vibrating the whole way from it being pressed up into the tunnel and the DS being way out of alignment. Blah.

As far as the swap itself... I really REALLY don't like this integrated bellhousing crap but it is what it is. I had to put a tripod jack under the front of the pan and get the motor tilted as far as it could physically go to BARELY get the 3650 in but it did go. Exhaust pipe was easy to remove because nothing under there is corroded at all, DS came right out etc... if it wasn't for the goddamn crossmember I'd have been in and out in 4 hours.

Yay...



Only thing I'm paranoid about is its still going to vibrate after the new crossmember but I doubt it. Its shimmed up so high right now the shifter trim won't even sit down all the way lol. I know its up against the tunnel and the trans mount metal is still touching the trans case even though I trimmed it as much as I could. Metal on metal and the whole damn thing being out of alignment should actually make it vibe way worse than it does right now. New mount and tubular crossmember will fix that. Not driving it till then.

Also, the whole VSS to OSS thing is way overblown. If you have a Dallas speedcal you just have to figure out your pulses per mile which is tire revolutions per mile X rear gears X 12 for the 3650. Take that number and punch it in here and it spits out your speedcal dipswitch settings. All new and recent Dallas speedcals are extended range so if you already have one you can just bump your current setting against the dallas speedcal chart on the website. If it matches up then you have an extended range and are good. If not, buy a new one. I got the speedo right on the very first try, worked like a champ.

So anyway if anyone else is thinking about this swap, you need the aftermarket crossmember (unelss you have a Cobra), you need a Dallas Speedcal and obviously a 3650 shifter since its different. Besides this it is a direct bolt in. I did the swap because I paid $1060 shipped for the whole thing new with no core charge and for the .62 overdrive.

Oh, the .62 overdrive I went into this knowing I was going to have to change out my 3.73s. You need either 4.10s or a lower gear than 3.73s because at 50-60mph 4th gear revs too high and 5th is way too low. A set of 4.10s (or 4.30s if you love shifting that much) would give the extra 200-300 RPM to fix it and get way more bottom end out of it. Or just swap in a set of 3.27s if you are just DDing it or are doing a Tork Tech or 4V Termi swap and only ever use 5th on the highway. I have half a mind to put my 3.08s that I still have from my 95 Cobra in this thing and just deal with slow acceleration until I Tork Tech it if I wind up keeping it. I'd be turning 1900 rpm at 80mph with that setup lol.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:17 PM   #2
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Stupid integrated bellhousing trannies... 3650 swap done...almost

The integrated bell housing in the 3650 is another reason why I want to go with a T-56.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:33 PM   #3
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I almost went with a T-56 but got too good a deal on this one. However if this trans winds up being jacked up for whatever reason... I may just auto swap it once and for all with a manual valve body and be done with it. I just really don't want to mess with the trans for awhile. The older I get, the more I think about just getting a Coyote and calling it a day. Yesterday was just sucky. Auto swap would be pretty straightforward though.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #4
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Same has gone through my mind. Just sell it and big something new.... I'm too attached to the Bullitt though.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:37 PM   #5
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I like my car but... there was a silver 2012 at the shop at the same time and the guy was just doing his brakes. I just stood there drooling over it. I LOVE the 2011/2012 front fascias and this was lowered/tinted/Brembo wheels/black interior etc... Sounded great too.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:39 PM   #6
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I guess I keep thinking. It's a Bullitt. How often do I see those around? It's something special that's not worth selling.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:55 PM   #7
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Yeah Bullitts are cool I agree and a nice one is def rare. Still, I love the Coyotes, especially the 2011/2012. The 2013 fascia looks like its smiling at you, the 2011/2012 just looks pissed off.

At any rate, getting back on topic, from the little I have driven this transmission. It shifts well, little notchy but I expected that. Sounds like my TKO did but its a similar design and has bigger gears than the T-45 as well. As I mentioned the internal stops are nice. One thing I have noticed is that the shifts are WAY shorter with the 3650 than the T-45.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:27 PM   #8
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It's rarely as easy as it seems at first glance. Glad you were able to get it home under it's own power though.
So does that 3650 have a different overdrive ratio than the one in my car?
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:30 PM   #9
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You have an 01 so you probably have the .68 overdrive. Easy way to tell is just get your RPM at a certain speed and plug it into the RPM calculator. First do a .68 overdrive and then a .62 and see what matches up. Mine is the 02-04 .62 ratio overdrive.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:52 PM   #10
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Oh. Ok. I see now. It gets the. RPM's out of the "sweet spot" just with the 3.73's.

Sometimes it takes me a minute...

I met a guy recently that has a 01 GT that had a T56 in it when he bought it. The first mod that he did was to remove it from the car. It was that bad. Everything that you've been saying was true.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:29 PM   #11
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Well the T-56 isn't bad but a lot of times the swap isn't done right or its hacked to hell. Most ppl are clueless about the speedcal or use a torn up crossmember or don't do something right. The T-56 is also a drop in pretty much and actually easier to install also because of the non-integrated bell.

I just don't think its worth the cost unless you are road racing. Yeah with my current gear setup it would be really nice to have a .8 gear in between 1.00 and .62 but nothing a 4.10, 4.30 or even a 3.55 swap can't take care of. Like I said I have half a mind to put 3.08s back in the car since I don't street race it and I don't see the point of taking it to the track when its not going to run better times than my bolt on 95 Cobra did.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:57 PM   #12
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You should give autocross a try Scotty. Horsepower isn't as important as on the drag strip and your car, with the exception of tires, is set up about as well as mine is for it.
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Old 05-29-2014, 10:19 PM   #13
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Got the stiffler's crossmember in today. The stiffler's directions say you need 1 spacer and the picture shows the exhaust hanger not deleted. This is correct... for the T-45... For the 3650 I quickly discovered it was going to be sitting just as high up with that setup as it was with my jury rigged washer shim to get me home from the lift. The good news is that the spacer they say to use plus the stock exhaust hanger are exactly the same height as the washer stack I used. No spacer and no hanger plate and she sits down right where she is supposed to and no more hella vibrations.

I have to get this thing back up on the lift to do a better trans mount than the junk "anchor" replacement mount that is in there now so I'll get finished pics of it then. Was a good feeling to fire the car up and not have the whole thing shake from the trans being mashed up against the tunnel lol.
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:09 PM   #14
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Lol.
Yeah, you're going to have to post some pics so that we can figure out what the hell you were just talking about.

I don't think that you ever explained why you can't just get a cross member out of a 3650 equipped car and use that. Are the mounts on the body in a different position or something?

Also, I was just looking at the picture of your car in, what I assume is, the base auto shop. Is that tool box, in the pic, full of tools for you to use while you are using that bay?
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Old 05-30-2014, 12:56 PM   #15
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This is a 94-98 crossmember. I know you know what the one in your Bullitt looks like so you'll understand why one can't use a 99-up.



And... trying to describe how the 3650 doesn't fit... that pic in the 1st post is of the t-45 in that came out and you can see where the crossmember bolts in.

As far as fit, the case in front of where the mount bolts to comes RIGHT back to the mount so the 94-98 crossmember physically bangs into the case which is why I had to grind a casting tab off the tailshaft to even get it to be able to be "jury rigged" to drive home. I also had to cut the 96-98 style mount because it is some jackass design to even clear the case and then shim it up 1/2" to get the case to not sit on the crossmember.

I had to notch here and that's where the back of the case still rubbed against.



That was my limp home shim height...



Using the Stiffler's unit it moves the crossmember itself back a good bit and fits the 3650 perfectly. As I said, the only problem is the directions to install and shim it are assuming a T-45. Luckily I am not the dimmest bulb in the box (close) and was able to figure out that if I just left the shims out and deleted the hangar plate it would drop the 3650 down to the right level.


Also, yes that is the base hobby shop. That toolbox is... eh... I brought my own tool set and used it almost exclusively. Only thing I needed to borrow was a 12 point socket to get the DS off. Breaker bars are the most wonderful thing in the world for removing DS bolts and when the car is on a lift you can actually use the damn thing. I think I am doing all my work on the lift from now on honestly. Yesterday in the driveway... this back is not what it once was... Also the lift makes getting the collector nuts on the left and bolts on the right a piece of cake.
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Old 05-30-2014, 01:43 PM   #16
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I hear you on the drive shaft bolts. I towed home the Bullitt that I just bought on a tow dolly and had to remove the DS, of course. I brought everything that I needed except the breaker bar. I broke an extension and a 12mm socket trying to break them loose. I was down to just a 12mm combination wrench was all I had left that would fit the bolts. I had a 15 inch Crescent wrench with me that has a good sized hole in the handle to hang it on a peg on wall, so I used the combination wrench, and put it through the hole in the handle of the big Crescent wrench, then used the leverage of that whole contraption to break the bolts loose.
Those bolts felt like they had never been removed (hard to believe!) and I could definitely feel the pain after that!
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:52 PM   #17
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Eh, I know mine had been removed at least once, they came out very easy once I broke the initial torque which was easy on a lift with a breaker bar.

Also, the nuts/bolts for the mid pipe collectors... on one's back the right side bolts sucks a bag of dicks and a half. One the lift working overhead with a few extensions and a universal? Easy. At least mine were. Also replaced that gasket while I was in there and the tick I had went away.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:47 AM   #18
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Trans is now officially done. I will get some decent pics when I get it back up on the lift to drop the mid pipe for the last time and re-install it to get rid of the goddamn exhaust leak on the pass collector. It was quiet when I did the trans the first time but dropping it in the driveway twice since then either dicked up the metal gasket or I was not able to get it tight enough. Working on your back in the driveway effing blows vs having the car up in the air.

Anyway, as far as initial impression of this rebuilt 3650. I am loving it. It is a little notchy yes, all 3650s are. However it is LIGHT YEARS better than an old worn out 120k or so T-45, its smooth and I have noticed the shifts in the 3650 are markedly shorter than the T-45. Shifter was a Tri-Ax in the T-45, is still a Tri-Ax in the 3650. Overdrive is especially nice, it is right the hell there vs WAY up and over with the T-45.

I have noticed a few "burnt" smells but I attribute to grease on the input shaft getting sprayed around inside the bell but its getting better. Also had a weird high pitched noise this morning for the first minute or so of driving but that went away. TOB is also quieting down which is good, I was going to lose my mind if a brand new TOB was bad.

I will say that its NICE and smooth with the aftermarket crossmember and a brand new OEM Ford mount.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:40 PM   #19
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I notice on my 3650 anytime I have done a fluid change (twice in the last 3 years) via the shifter hole the at smell lingers in my car for a while. I'm always paranoid that I didn't seal the shifter back on good enough and fluid is showing out, so I pull the bezel and boot to check but everything is dry.

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Old 06-06-2014, 05:49 PM   #20
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I kept getting random assed burning fluid smells for the first few days, happened again today even. It is likely some grease we used to lube up the input shaft/housing slinging onto the clutch or something. There is also a clunking under the car and for some reason my goddamn exhaust loosened up at the mufflers so its hanging pretty low and I need to get it back on the lift and really go through it all again. I tried today but all 3 bays were full and would be for the next 1-2 hours and I didn't feel like waiting. Will try again tomorrow since I have to go to work for "wing safety day" IE, "call everyone in on a saturday en masse after everyone has worked for 5 straight already and hope nobody wrecks" day. Idiots... I'm suspecting the clunking is the exhaust moving around or its the BBK mid pipe's exahaust hangers that are literally a few mm away from the stiffler's crossmember hitting it when I go over bumps. Bolt cutter and the lift will fix that...

But one thing I am noticing is how much more power it feels like the car has. I am beginning to suspect the old trans was more shot than I thought and pulling a lot more power out of the drivetrain than it should have. Also finally said **** it and took it up to 6k in 1st, pushed the clutch in and ripped down into 2nd as hard as I could. ****er went in like butter and didn't miss a beat. Also no vibes whatsoever. I am SO happy to finally have a trans that will do a 1-2 shift at 6k smoothly again. My TKO was a nightmare and this T-45 wouldn't do it at all. Car is now super fun to drive again.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:37 AM   #21
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That sux your Auto Hobby Shop only has 3 lifts. Even the one at little MCAS Yuma has 6.

Got to love those mando safety training that they keep preaching ask the same info year after year, heard one heard them all

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Old 06-07-2014, 10:43 AM   #22
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only 3 lifts haha .. ahh I would consider myself privileged if I had access to a car lift.. even if I had to wait a couple hours or book time. Sure beats jack stands!
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:08 PM   #23
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Awesome!
I'm actually a little relieved that your transmission is working good.

Now, maybe, we won't hear anymore of this "crazy talk" about Camaro's and Firebird's and such...

For a while anyway.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:08 PM   #24
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Nah, I'm researching a 5.3 swap right now although the most important thing to me right now is getting my debt paid off so I will probably be driving a NA 2V for awhile lol.

Some more pics I got today, I had to wait 45 min but I got a lift. The nice thing about the base shops is that there is nearly always someone to bull**** with.

The infamous tab that every swinging dick in the world who "heard from someone else" said had to be ground off lol.



Yes I know it looks like ****, I will go back and smooth it out when I swap in an OR pipe... or I'll just leave it... its not hurting anything.

You can see here why the stock crossmember would never have worked. It goes straight across and banged right into the case itself.



Stiffler's unit allows the mount to stay in the stock place, the stock height but has the clearance for the 3650.



Yes I know I need subframes for this car. I have just not got around to it yet. I've had subframes on everything else and I have a good installer here. **** keeps coming up.




Edit: Only issue I am having is we put too much grease on the tailshaft during install. It is slinging on the cats when I really rev it up and I've been smoked out of the car twice lol. I wipe it off but its still pushed up in the seal and coming out... blah... Oh well I've probably inhaled way worse stuff I wasn't aware of when I was in Europe and definitely when I spent months downrange with the goddamn burn pits in the forward deployed locations. Might be a good excuse to get an OR pipe in there too or I keep telling myself that. Although this BBK pipe is not costing me any power.
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