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Old 11-15-2014, 08:31 PM   #36
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How much extra HP will the plennum provide? Should I add a TB also? Heard mixed messages about the benefits of the TB.

I will research the upgraded intake. Maybe the Edelbrock of the Trick Flow Track Heat. My shop is adding 24lb injectors and an upgraded mass air sensor next week.

Will a new stage 2 cam provide much extra power? I guess after I look into these upgrades my last to the engine would be forced induction. Cant afford a engine swap...especially after I sunk my cash into the current set up.

Love the torque curve. It comes on steady and strong all the way up to 6k RPM. It drives really well and very glad I had this work completed. Car is completely different from when it went in...a 100 HP gain is substantial and add the 3.73s, its a fun car but I am bitten by the HP bug and the only cure is more HP!
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Old 11-15-2014, 08:35 PM   #37
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Do you find any value in adding a TB and Plennum or just the Plennum? Maybe if I add the Trick Flow Track Heat intake along with a Plennum, that will get me over the 300 HP mark. What about a better fuel mgmt system? My speed shop ordered me a new Mass Air meter along with 24 lb injectors to be installed this week. Anything else that I should talk to him about with regards to the fuel system?

Maybe stick with a Trickflow Track Heat, Plennum (no TB?), the new Mass Air Meter, and 24 lb injectors? I reckon next step is the Vortech SC after I can milk the NA 2V for everything she is worth.

If your going to do the Track Heat intake you'll also want to get a 75mm TB to go with it!.. As it's made for the 75mm TB!..


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Old 11-15-2014, 08:36 PM   #38
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Will a new stage 2 cam provide much extra power?
Custom grind cams are what you want.
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Old 11-15-2014, 09:00 PM   #39
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Id install a Trick Flow plenum, the 24 lb injectors, and the TB (If you want).
Then get it tuned again.
I don't know how much horsepower but that should, hopefully, get you into the three's.

Id also take some time and decide which direction that you want to go with this engine before buying anymore cams. If you decide to supercharge, a N/A cam is not ideal. Also, with the NPI short block and 38cc heads, your compression ratio is pretty high for Forced Induction so keep that in mind as well...
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Old 11-15-2014, 10:10 PM   #40
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He can run a blower with that setup, just has to have a spot on tune and be careful. Also would not worry about any more cam swaps, just supercharge it and be done with it. Which I would have done right off the bat for the same or less than a set of TFS heads/cams and been at 425whp right now vs having spent all the money and still talking about getting more power out of it... just saying. Stock PI heads/cams/intake and a S trim with bolt ons is a 425whp car... and retains stock street manners, and gets 20+mpg keeping your foot out of it...
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Old 11-15-2014, 11:14 PM   #41
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and be done with it.
Wat
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Old 11-16-2014, 05:20 PM   #42
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Trick flow head horsepower

Yea, but he already bought the heads so he might as well use em and to do that he needs a forged rotating assembly.... But as far as the intake goes yea a 75mm tb is good they have different versions of it tho they have one designed to work with a twin blade tb or the single so whichever one u get make sure u pay attention and get the corresponding tb, theres also a ProComp Qualifier intake that would be cheaper but i dunno much about it and dun know anyone with it but u could use ur stock fuel rails/lines untill u can upgrade them in which would only need to be done once u hit the bigger hp #s ( i read somewhere that around 500 hp ur stock fuel rails/lines will be starving your motor of fuel and will cause it to lean out) so thats also something to keep in mind. Scotty is right u could of got 425-450 hp with just a s trim but seeing as tho u already got the heads u might as well set a high hp goal (650-700)and go for it be because with a addition of the blower now ull be over the safe hp level of the stock internals unless u run very low boost but then what would be the point in getting the heads?


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Old 11-28-2014, 03:12 PM   #43
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Should have responded sooner, how much would you estimate the gain is with the TF Intake vs the FRPP? Short of a SC, NOS, or Turbo, I am struggling to get some more HP out of the engine. Thoughts?
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:18 PM   #44
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Will see a little more top end with the TF intake at expense of low end. Not worth it. The PI intake is really good and does not need to be replaced until the 2V is being pushed towards 600hp by a power adder.
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:23 PM   #45
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Bullitt intake.........


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Old 11-28-2014, 04:25 PM   #46
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Bullitt intake is not worth the $$$ either honestly. +30lbs and $1000+ for 5rwhp across the board.
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:27 PM   #47
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Bullitt intake is not worth the $$$ either honestly. +30lbs and $1000+ for 5rwhp across the board.

Battery relocation will fix the weight issue. It also doesn't leak or crack like the PI one. Torque comes in strong at 2.5k rpm unlike the PI one.


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Old 11-30-2014, 07:45 AM   #48
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The stock pi intake dont like higher rpms if ur not gonna spin the motor up to 7k or add a decent nitrous hit then adding a better intake isnt worth it because up untill 6000-6500 rpms the pi intake is decent but anything after that it falls short ( look on mhs site it has dyno graphs and explains all this) those tf heads like to be spun up in rpms and the stock intake will limit that ( so will ur rotating assembly its not really made for real high rpm bashing but if u get a built bottom end and have it high speed balanced then ull be good) but do urself a favor and check out mhs ( modular head shop) site they have alot of usefull info that may help u in ur next move


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Old 11-30-2014, 08:35 PM   #49
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The stock pi intake dont like higher rpms if ur not gonna spin the motor up to 7k or add a decent nitrous hit then adding a better intake isnt worth it because up untill 6000-6500 rpms the pi intake is decent but anything after that it falls short ( look on mhs site it has dyno graphs and explains all this) those tf heads like to be spun up in rpms and the stock intake will limit that ( so will ur rotating assembly its not really made for real high rpm bashing but if u get a built bottom end and have it high speed balanced then ull be good) but do urself a favor and check out mhs ( modular head shop) site they have alot of usefull info that may help u in ur next move


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MHS is great and that is correct about the PI intake. However, with a stock rotating assembly, he wants to keep it at about 6k anyway.
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:14 PM   #50
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Trick flow head horsepower

What fuel are you running?

Brett Madsen with his Autocrossing 99 Roush has 388hp still stock bore and stock stroke, ported PI heads, stage 4.5 cams, but it also has a 13.7:1 compression ratio, he uses E85 and it works perfectly.

Imagine all that but with a big bore stroker, and TFS heads.



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Old 12-01-2014, 10:15 AM   #51
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I run 93 octane. I talked with my shop and they are installing a new mass air sensor and 24 lb injectors. Hope that gets me over 310 hp with a new tune. Apparently, the engine was running out of air/fuel. Hope this does the trick or Santa is bringing me a Paxton/novi 2000 for Christmas.


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Old 12-01-2014, 10:21 AM   #52
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ditch the factory cats and open her up to breath if you dont already have off road pypes maybe a hotter spark coil pack wires and plugs?
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:29 AM   #53
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Yea, did that also, didn't want to but needed to...only thing factory left on the exhaust is the cat back system. Trying to keep the sound down to a dull roar out the back...lol.


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Old 12-01-2014, 10:30 AM   #54
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Getting back on the dyno Thursday and will find out fer sure! Please let me be 310 hp or higher! Christmas is the time for miracles, yes?


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Old 12-01-2014, 10:37 AM   #55
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[/COLOR]yes sir it is also try a octane booster b4 you hit the dyno if you car is beefed maybe the extra octane may help.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:14 AM   #56
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Octane booster is snake oil. Run 93, run race gas or run E85. As for the exhaust, plenty of OR or aftermarket catted setups that are not deafening and flow just as well as anything else. The trick is to not run a chambered muffler. My old and preferred setup were headers to an OR pipe to a Dynomax Ultraflow catback. Perfect combination of mild at low RPM to absolutely screaming when you stomp on it.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:48 AM   #57
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Octane booster is snake oil. Run 93, run race gas or run E85. As for the exhaust, plenty of OR or aftermarket catted setups that are not deafening and flow just as well as anything else. The trick is to not run a chambered muffler. My old and preferred setup were headers to an OR pipe to a Dynomax Ultraflow catback. Perfect combination of mild at low RPM to absolutely screaming when you stomp on it.

+11. You'll have to pour like 4 bottles of the stuff just to raise your octain 1 or 2 points!.. I would say stick with 93 and tune for that until you start hitting the Big Numbers then go E85!.. And Ya ditch the Chambered style mufflers, and go with a Flow Through design!.. I've got BBK Ceramic Headers, Pypes O/R X-pipe, and CherryBomb Vortex catback!.. Same Mild at Low RPM to Screaming (got pulled over for loud exhaust the other night 😋) sound!..


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Old 12-10-2014, 05:31 PM   #58
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I am getting my new mass air sensor and 24 lb injectors installed today. The shop owner said he had to leave some hp on the table from the last dyno tune due to the old maf and injectors not being able to handle the new air coming into the engine or something like that. I will have the numbers tomorrow to post for the final time with the finaI bolt on upgrades. I hope hit 330 rwhp...it will all be worth it. Currently at 295 rwhp /315 tq...stay tuned.


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Old 12-10-2014, 08:45 PM   #59
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The car will love a bump in compression. If you have access to E85 run some flat top pistons and make it a 13:1 compression car. That along with the heads you are running you will need bigger cams. But it may possibly push you over the 400rwhp threshold.


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:01 PM   #60
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What fuel are you running?

Brett Madsen with his Autocrossing 99 Roush has 388hp still stock bore and stock stroke, ported PI heads, stage 4.5 cams, but it also has a 13.7:1 compression ratio, he uses E85 and it works perfectly.

Imagine all that but with a big bore stroker, and TFS heads.



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Wtffffff!?!?
Is this true?


Stage 4 AND A HALF cams?

13.7 compression ratio!?!?!??!?
Ported heads AND e85??

For 388rwhp???



THIS is why an N/A build is pointless on a modular


Although I will give him the fact that every cam grinders "stages" are different and it measured to any type of universal scale


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:07 PM   #61
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I am running 93 octane gas. My guess is that 330 rwhp is the MAX I will see w/o some type of forced air scenario. With the 3.73 gears, maybe high 4 zero to sixty and high 12s 1/4 mile time. I will get the hp results tomorrow and then the track times will follow shortly.


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:11 PM   #62
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Wtffffff!?!?
Is this true?


Stage 4 AND A HALF cams?

13.7 compression ratio!?!?!??!?
Ported heads AND e85??

For 388rwhp???



THIS is why an N/A build is pointless on a modular


Although I will give him the fact that every cam grinders "stages" are different and it measured to any type of universal scale


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It's a Teskid block sent to MMR for forged internals, has flat top pistons and MHS Stage 3 heads with MHS Stage 4.5 cams, and a ported PI intake. 388rwhp. So if you have access to E85 and don't want to run a power adder high compression is a viable option.


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:11 PM   #63
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I hope I never get to the point where a 350 hp car is boring to me.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:21 PM   #64
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You will lol


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:39 PM   #65
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Wtffffff!?!?
Is this true?


Stage 4 AND A HALF cams?

13.7 compression ratio!?!?!??!?
Ported heads AND e85??

For 388rwhp???



THIS is why an N/A build is pointless on a modular


Although I will give him the fact that every cam grinders "stages" are different and it measured to any type of universal scale


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These are small displacement engines and it is what it is...
I will agree that if you want a lot of straight-line power, FI is the way to get there.

Brett Madsen races autocross and it's more important that the car remains light so that it handles well. Although power is helpful, it's difficult to get it to the ground in autocross because you are, mostly, negotiating corners with the odd straightaway thrown in the mix. I'll bet that 385 hp is more than he can use on most of the autocross tracks. And he probably built that engine for the same reason that I'm building my Teksid, to remove about 80 lbs of weight from the front of the car!

Some of us have different goals when building an engine... And a 300 or so RWHP car is fun!
The trouble with trying to be the fastest in a straight line is that there will always be someone who comes along and whips your ***.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:43 PM   #66
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That is a fact. Always has and always will...Will win some and will lose some but it will always be fun!


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:45 PM   #67
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These are small displacement engines and it is what it is...

I will agree that if you want a lot of straight-line power, FI is the way to get there.



Brett Madsen races autocross and it's more important that the car remains light so that it handles well. Although power is helpful, it's difficult to get it to the ground in autocross because you are, mostly, negotiating corners with the odd straightaway thrown in the mix. I'll bet that 385 hp is more than he can use on most of the autocross tracks. And he probably built that engine for the same reason that I'm building my Teksid, to remove about 80 lbs of weight from the front of the car!



Some of us have different goals when building an engine... And a 300 or so RWHP car is fun!

The trouble with trying to be the fastest in a straight line is that there will always be someone who comes along and whips your ***.


I agree that you can only get so much out of 281 cubes and it is what it is.

I think a twin screw would have made him a lot happier in autoX lol




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Old 12-10-2014, 10:48 PM   #68
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These are small displacement engines and it is what it is...
I will agree that if you want a lot of straight-line power, FI is the way to get there.

Brett Madsen races autocross and it's more important that the car remains light so that it handles well. Although power is helpful, it's difficult to get it to the ground in autocross because you are, mostly, negotiating corners with the odd straightaway thrown in the mix. I'll bet that 385 hp is more than he can use on most of the autocross tracks. And he probably built that engine for the same reason that I'm building my Teksid, to remove about 80 lbs of weight from the front of the car!

Some of us have different goals when building an engine... And a 300 or so RWHP car is fun!
The trouble with trying to be the fastest in a straight line is that there will always be someone who comes along and whips your ***.
He is actually planning on going back into the motor over the off season. Going to bring it up past 400rwhp NA. He spins the motor to 9500rpm at times. Granted it builds power until around 6500rpm then stays flat until about 7800rpm, but its easier to hold it for an extra second in a corner than to shift to 3rd then back down to 2. Car also weighs 2800 pounds.

Thats another thing, if you can cut weight you don't need that can also make a dramatic affect on the performance of the car without even touching the engine.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:49 PM   #69
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I agree that you can only get so much out of 281 cubes and it is what it is.

I think a twin screw would have made him a lot happier in autoX lol




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Haha.
Again, the extra weight is a curse and if you can't get the power to the ground, it does no good.
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Old 12-11-2014, 12:56 PM   #70
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He is actually planning on going back into the motor over the off season. Going to bring it up past 400rwhp NA. He spins the motor to 9500rpm at times. Granted it builds power until around 6500rpm then stays flat until about 7800rpm, but its easier to hold it for an extra second in a corner than to shift to 3rd then back down to 2. Car also weighs 2800 pounds.



Thats another thing, if you can cut weight you don't need that can also make a dramatic affect on the performance of the car without even touching the engine.
9500? Holy


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