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Old 02-19-2015, 01:05 PM   #1
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1997 Mustang Gt issues

Hello Everyone, I am not new to the mustang life however I have not had one in 5 years. I picked up a 97 mustang gt with the 5 speed transmission. The guy that I bought it from stated that it had the PI swap but it has the 97 valve covers..?? Also when shifting when it's cold it sounds like it's grinding, not in every gear though and he also told me that it had a new clutch in it.

I was going to jack it up and change the manual fluid myself. Which is the best stuff to use and how much? I doubt that it's been replaced.
It also has turn downs on it and I can't stand them. Click image for larger version

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Old 02-19-2015, 04:48 PM   #2
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Sorry for late reply I seen this at work earlier but didn't get the time to answer. I use royal purple syncromax. I'm running a tremec t56 so not sure what your fill level would be. On the PI head question, if it's a Windsor pi swap the passenger side will have the oil fill on it. I'm not certain on the Romeo pi heads though. Also look at the head casting number and look for a pi stamp at the end. Take a mirror and look down the sides of the heads for a pi. Also if you take a valve cover off you will see a pi stamp. As for the noise issue you would have to take a look at it. Could be syncro problem or various other problems. Changing fluild if you can't look at the trans yourself wouldn't be a bad idea especially that you just got it. Would be wise to change all fluids out. Good luck hopefully you have pi heads. Also how many bolts are in your valve covers. If it's a 13 bolt you defiantly have pi windsor block heads. Romeos have 11.
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Old 02-19-2015, 05:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 3.21gwGT View Post
Hello Everyone, I am not new to the mustang life however I have not had one in 5 years. I picked up a 97 mustang gt with the 5 speed transmission. The guy that I bought it from stated that it had the PI swap but it has the 97 valve covers..?? Also when shifting when it's cold it sounds like it's grinding, not in every gear though and he also told me that it had a new clutch in it.

I was going to jack it up and change the manual fluid myself. Which is the best stuff to use and how much? I doubt that it's been replaced.
It also has turn downs on it and I can't stand them. Attachment 175725


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3.2 quarts

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:54 PM   #4
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Yeah my oil fill is on the driver side. I'll do my best to look around and see if I can find a pi stamp.



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Old 02-19-2015, 07:58 PM   #5
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Yeah my oil fill is on the driver side. I'll do my best to look around and see if I can find a pi stamp.



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A small rubber hose up through the shifter is a good way to fill it

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Old 02-19-2015, 08:09 PM   #6
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A small rubber hose up through the shifter is a good way to fill it

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He was talking about seeing if he had the pi heads or not. To op. Well you defiantly don't have windsor pi heads than so let's hope you got Romeo pi than. That sucks if dude lied to you and all. Well let's say he did I have a pair of used windsor pi heads I'd give you a deal on. You would want to put new guides and springs on it though but I'd cut you a deal bro If that what you'd want to do. Looks like you have yourself a Romeo block though.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:26 PM   #7
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Yeah I'm looking at lowering it, I had originally planned to put new rims on it but woke up to two flat front tires so the only tire store that carried the tires I needed was $330 for two. A friend has a set of 2" lowering springs but they came off his 94 gt, so I don't know if that'd make a difference.

Once it stops snowing/raining I'll try to look and see if I can find a PI stamp

What are the difference between Windsor and Romeo heads?


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Old 02-21-2015, 05:39 PM   #8
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I've also encounter this issue a few times.
When sitting in traffic and car is in neutral, the light turns green and I press clutch to shift into first, as I let off of clutch it makes a sound kinda like a knocking sound but doesn't do it every time. Plus I have absolutely 0 play at the top of the clutch because I knew if you pulled the clutch to the top Itd reset it or something.



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Old 02-21-2015, 09:51 PM   #9
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Yeah I'm looking at lowering it, I had originally planned to put new rims on it but woke up to two flat front tires so the only tire store that carried the tires I needed was $330 for two. A friend has a set of 2" lowering springs but they came off his 94 gt, so I don't know if that'd make a difference.

Once it stops snowing/raining I'll try to look and see if I can find a PI stamp

What are the difference between Windsor and Romeo heads?


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There are a few differences between the two but both have same flow characteristics. Windsor pi heads have 13 bolts and are 10mm, romeo pi heads have 11 bolt pattern and use 8mm bolts. Windsor cam sprockets are pressed on and romeos are bolt on. Their is also a slight difference in the cam journal caps also and The romeo heads have a girdle where the Windsor heads do not. Also I'm pretty sure if he did the swap and it was a Romeo block he could of used the same valve covers.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:04 AM   #10
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I've also encounter this issue a few times.
When sitting in traffic and car is in neutral, the light turns green and I press clutch to shift into first, as I let off of clutch it makes a sound kinda like a knocking sound but doesn't do it every time. Plus I have absolutely 0 play at the top of the clutch because I knew if you pulled the clutch to the top Itd reset it or something.



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If there is a aftermarket clutch in there it could just be clutch chatter.
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Old 02-22-2015, 08:25 AM   #11
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I called the guy yesterday to ask him a few questions. He stated that the guy that he got the car from did the motor and clutch. He said that he took the motor from a crown vic/ grand marquis but I am starting to think that he is lying because none of it makes any sense.

Where exactly should I look for a pi stamp? Is there one on the intake too?

Yeah it's an aftermarket clutch


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Old 02-22-2015, 08:36 AM   #12
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I called the guy yesterday to ask him a few questions. He stated that the guy that he got the car from did the motor and clutch. He said that he took the motor from a crown vic/ grand marquis but I am starting to think that he is lying because none of it makes any sense.

Where exactly should I look for a pi stamp? Is there one on the intake too?

Yeah it's an aftermarket clutch


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A lot of people take motors from crown vics and put them in our cars. Look on the drivers side just above the headers with a mirror and look for a pi cast on the heads. It would be closer to the back bolts.You can angle a small mirror and sit it right on the headers and you should see a pi at the end or under the casting number. Only other way to tell is bolt pattern, take off intake manifold and look at the runners or take off valve cover. Looks for npi or pi stamp. The ports to runners on pi heads are square as to circular and tear drop shape on non pi heads. At this point I wouldn't believe a word the guy said.
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Old 02-22-2015, 10:14 AM   #13
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1997 Mustang Gt issues

Is this true?

Look at the intake, if it's still NPI then the heads are still NPI. On PI intakes the first crossover comes from the right like this:
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If so then I have a npi intake because mine starts off on the left



Yeah I'm right there with you
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Old 02-22-2015, 10:35 AM   #14
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Is this true?

Look at the intake, if it's still NPI then the heads are still NPI. On PI intakes the first crossover comes from the right like this:
Attachment 175909
If so then I have a npi intake because mine starts off on the left



Yeah I'm right there with you
That is a Ford racing intake manifold. But yes that would be true but there has been people who swapped pi intake manifolds on npi heads. Its looking like you have npi heads. Bro look for the stamp takes two minutes. Better yet take pics with you phone and post them up. Also crown Vic motors may be different especially the police interceptor motors, I'm not sure but I think they had pi heads also but don't quote me on that.
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 3.21gwGT View Post
Is this true?

Look at the intake, if it's still NPI then the heads are still NPI. On PI intakes the first crossover comes from the right like this:
Attachment 175909
If so then I have a npi intake because mine starts off on the left



Yeah I'm right there with you
If your intake does not look like that then you have a npi, sorry. Trans... Its likely on the way out. 96-98 cars have transmissions with paper blocker rings that come apart around 90-100k miles and reverse issues too. Likely going to need a new trans.

Sorry to say it sounds like this dude bought a lemon and sold it off to you. Take a pic of your intake and post it here and we can tell you for sure. If it is the npi intake... I'd confront the guy but I doubt you'll get anything out of that besides knowing that he knows you know he's a lying scumbag.

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Old 02-22-2015, 11:26 AM   #16
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Not sure where your from but michigan has a lemon law meaning if seller lied to you or major problems arise after car is bought within 15 days or so you could get your money back by law.
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Old 02-22-2015, 11:36 AM   #17
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I'm in Mississippi
It's no biggie, I didn't pay that much for it. It's a decent car that just needs some work done to it. Only issue that I've had so far would be the flat tires.

I'll look at the motor here in a few


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Old 02-22-2015, 12:37 PM   #18
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FYI






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Old 02-22-2015, 01:01 PM   #19
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1997 Mustang Gt issues

My intake is the npi intake
I took these pictures, never saw any pi stamping. I took these on the driver side above the header.

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Old 02-22-2015, 01:06 PM   #20
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I'd call the dude just for my own satisfaction honestly. He really might have believed the guy HE bought the car from... but that's no excuse to be an idiot.
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Old 02-22-2015, 01:53 PM   #21
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I'd call the dude just for my own satisfaction honestly. He really might have believed the guy HE bought the car from... but that's no excuse to be an idiot.
For sure what's done is done but I think He knew and that's why he possibly sold it, couple problems npi heads etc. Idiot. Sorry bro. Just make the best of it now.
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Old 02-22-2015, 02:03 PM   #22
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Yeah oh well....
However the motor does look like it's been messed with but who knows. It's really clean and had writing on the front by the pulleys.

Either upgrade this one or replace with a low milage motor


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Old 02-22-2015, 03:55 PM   #23
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It's honestly cheaper to just drop in a crown vic pi motor. Easier too.

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Old 02-22-2015, 04:50 PM   #24
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It's honestly cheaper to just drop in a crown vic pi motor. Easier too.

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Yeah if I do anything
I'll more than likely get a pi motor and just drop it in
There isn't anything wrong with this one so I'm not in a hurry.


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Old 02-23-2015, 01:25 PM   #25
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drop a c note at your local tuner shop to use their dyno and see your wheel horsepower numbers. If you are in the 220-230 range you can relax and focus on fixing your transmission, if your in the 190-205 range then you can focus on fixing your tires and filing a small claims tort case against the lying scumbag.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:51 PM   #26
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I haven't had any serious issues with the transmission, I have noticed it only does it when its cold and it's being cranked for the first time that day. Besides that it goes into gear fine...
I have talked to the guy and he bought the car exactly how it sits. The guy that he bought it from told him that it had a pi swap on it and it was from another vehicle.
Looking around the engine bay I have noticed the following things...
1: the sticker on driver valve cover states that those covers were/are on a 1997 4.6 motor.
2: the motor is really clean and has writing on the front of the block.
3: someone has replaced the headlights with one piece headlights and tried to install hid headlights.

The odometer does show 189,000 miles
The engine temp runs really really cool.



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Old 02-24-2015, 09:04 AM   #27
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Well I guess when it rains it pours
Woke up this morning to a huge oil leak under the car
It's dripping around the oil pan

So I'm guessing it's the oil pan or rear main seal


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Old 02-24-2015, 09:06 AM   #28
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Well I guess when it rains it pours
Woke up this morning to a huge oil leak under the car
It's dripping around the oil pan

So I'm guessing it's the oil pan or rear main seal


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This is called being sold a lemon. However, if the car is in real good shape and you didn't pay alot its still ok.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:20 AM   #29
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Yeah I didn't pay much for the car and it's in decent condition
I wish I had a newer 4.6 that I could drop in instead of fixing this 4.6.
But it is what it is and I just gotta roll with it.




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Old 02-24-2015, 11:12 AM   #30
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well...you could grab a cheap 3v to drop in..the conversion isn't too much of a pain and its a solid f'ing motor with tons of aftermarket parts and loves to make power.

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Old 02-24-2015, 01:42 PM   #31
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Not too many ppl know about that kit but its actually fairly cost effective provided you can get a good 3V that wasn't beat on. Problem is oftentimes a good 3V and the kit is going to run you as much or damn nears as much as a good 4V that requires no adapter kit.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:31 PM   #32
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Not too many ppl know about that kit but its actually fairly cost effective provided you can get a good 3V that wasn't beat on. Problem is oftentimes a good 3V and the kit is going to run you as much or damn nears as much as a good 4V that requires no adapter kit.
There is a junkyard down the road here that has a completely thrashed 2006 gt i mean thrashed. Guy was worried nothing is salvagable but the motor is untouched, just have to cut the car off from around it..tranny is no go but I have a 4r that i'll re-use anyhow. Has 160k on it but who cares. 275 for the motor I'll be pulling it friday, harness/ecu's included if i can manage.

anyways here is a thread from another place about a guy that went through a swap. you can find a local salvage yard with all the parts you need for cheaper than ebay I am sure

tweety 5150's 00 GT 2v to 3v Swap
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:34 PM   #33
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everyone mentions the 4v but i swear to god i've yet to see a reasonably priced 4v anywhere and i've been looking for a solid 9 months. I've hit every salvage yard around for aviators, viii's and cobras and they are all in the 1600-3000 range and for that I can get a DSS lvl 10 longblock.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:54 PM   #34
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I have looked at several places but haven't found anything. The only motors I find are 94-95 5.0s or other npi 4.6 motors.


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Old 02-24-2015, 05:12 PM   #35
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Well I don't know where it's leaking from but I do want to say it's the oil pan gasket
Was leaking in the front and back

Also found out that I have a Borg Warner transmission??and this bar rides underneath the transmission Click image for larger version

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