Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit - Mustang Evolution

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Old 02-25-2015, 06:30 PM   #1
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

Hey guys (and gals),

I'm an original owner of a 2001 GT with an automatic (141,000 miles). I had a flowmaster cat-back and Steeda sport springs installed years ago, but I'm finally starting to get a mod list together.

I'm having 4.10s installed next week and plan on getting a tuner to coincide with the install. My question: Is a shift kit necessary with the tuner? I was wondering if the tune would be all I needed or if the shift kit would benefit me as well.

Also, I recently had a transmission rebuild which I'm taking back under warranty. It's slipping out of gear, again. Not sure if this should affect my decision.

Thanks!


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Old 02-25-2015, 06:48 PM   #2
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I have been searching same topic, and it seems as though tuner will improve shifts without a shift kit. However, I am sure a shift kit would improve things even further. If tranny is getting rebuilt anyway, why not ask shop for a beefier rebuild and to install shift kit while they are there?
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:52 PM   #3
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From a tune it would deside the best shift points for mods and would be no need for a shift kit.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:56 PM   #4
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I only have so much money to spend, so I'm just gonna let them fix it (trans) under warranty and buy some much needed mods In the future I'll swap it out, but for now I just want it to work!


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---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitMuscle99 View Post
From a tune it would deside the best shift points for mods and would be no need for a shift kit.

Thanks!


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Old 02-25-2015, 07:33 PM   #5
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

The 4r70w tranny will handle about 500 fwhp without killing it. However I suggest doing a J mod and have a reputable tuner such as MPT tune the motor and adjust the shift settings. (After you get the tranny sorted out of course). The J mod is a well known modification that modifies some holes in the separator plate. This allows more Mercon V to fill the accumulators faster which will shift the gears much more firmly, more solid and quicker. Then with your tuner they will raise the line pressure which will further enhance the shifting of the transmission. Together you will have a performance automatic. The J mod is nearly free to do and there are tons of YouTube videos on the subject. And I'd suggest MPT as a tuner. I have both with my tranny. It's a beast.


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Old 02-25-2015, 08:41 PM   #6
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No you don't need a tune for a shift kit. I just had mine installed a little over a week ago.


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Old 02-26-2015, 01:29 AM   #7
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The 4r70w tranny will handle about 500 fwhp without killing it. However I suggest doing a J mod and have a reputable tuner such as MPT tune the motor and adjust the shift settings. (After you get the tranny sorted out of course). The J mod is a well known modification that modifies some holes in the separator plate. This allows more Mercon V to fill the accumulators faster which will shift the gears much more firmly, more solid and quicker. Then with your tuner they will raise the line pressure which will further enhance the shifting of the transmission. Together you will have a performance automatic. The J mod is nearly free to do and there are tons of YouTube videos on the subject. And I'd suggest MPT as a tuner. I have both with my tranny. It's a beast.


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I just read about the J mod today. I watched the video earlier and I'm gonna go for it. Can I wait to do the J mod after the tune or do they take it into consideration when doing the custom tune?


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Old 02-26-2015, 04:53 AM   #8
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It won't matter when you do it.


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Old 02-26-2015, 10:43 AM   #9
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It won't matter when you do it.


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Thanks for the help.


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Old 02-26-2015, 11:31 AM   #10
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

As many would agree Bama is the bottom of the barrel for tunes. Sure they offer life time tune revisions but they're just ok. MPT is what many others use and they're what I use. If you buy the tuner from them you get 3 custom tunes. They offered in the past, tune revisions for 6 months after purchase but changed their policy this year. Their explanation for this is that they're a smaller company and only have two tuners to handle the whole business. And that for every little revision they were getting they had to take away from major tune jobs. So they charge $20 to revise tunes now. I just added a few things and thought I was going to use my tune revision period. But I had to purchase the revision. It wasn't a huge deal because their tunes are so amazing. They usually have a 3 day turn around time and their customer support is beyond amazing. I thought I'd share my experience with them so far. And so far I recommend them to everyone that will listen. My buddy liked the tune in my mustang so much he had MPT tune his 4x4 F150. And he couldn't be happier also. Once you get your tranny fixed go ahead and do the J mod. It's easy enough to do. When you decide on which tuner company to go through, you can select your shift settings through a simple option chart with descriptions of each setting. It's amazing what these two mods will do to the granny slow tranny from the factory. If you're on it enough, be prepared to chirp your tires in the first 2 gears. Sorry for the long post. Lol


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Old 02-26-2015, 12:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bullitt310 View Post
Hey guys (and gals),

I'm an original owner of a 2001 GT with an automatic (141,000 miles). I had a flowmaster cat-back and Steeda sport springs installed years ago, but I'm finally starting to get a mod list together.

I'm having 4.10s installed next week and plan on getting a tuner to coincide with the install. My question: Is a shift kit necessary with the tuner? I was wondering if the tune would be all I needed or if the shift kit would benefit me as well.

Also, I recently had a transmission rebuild which I'm taking back under warranty. It's slipping out of gear, again. Not sure if this should affect my decision.

Thanks!
Hey Bullitt,

Be careful, the mod bug will hit you hard !

Although I would definitely have your transmission fixed before you go either direction, when it comes to a tune, a shift kit will not be needed, save your money!

The Bama X4/SF4 Power Flash Tuner will completely transform the car and you will love it!

On top of the power gains, Bama provides you with free tunes for life so whenever you mod the car in the future, you can get it re-tuned for free!

Hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions!

-Will
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Old 02-26-2015, 03:02 PM   #12
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

I'm probably going with this: http://www.americanmuscle.com/sct-4b...om-9904gt.html

I'd go for something pricier, but for the time being I have a fixed amount to spend on other mods. I'm trying to maximize my bang for the buck. I'll give you the run down so you can tell me what you think:

4.10s/tune/J mod
17x9/10.5 Bullitts w/Sumitomos
Eibach struts/shocks
Eibach sportlines
J&M U/L control arms
Front control arm replacement set (or just replace ball joints/bushings?)
Rear axle bushings (spherical or rubber?)
Sway bar end links
Steering rack bushings (spherical or polyurethane?)
Pinion snubber
Tie rod end boots
PAPerformance alternator

I plan on doing everything but the gear install myself. I'll probably have it repainted within a year and then start to build the engine (blower, etc.) in another year (as finances improve).

I know I just threw a lot more out there, but any advice will be appreciated.



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Old 02-26-2015, 04:20 PM   #13
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

I haven't had any experience with the chip. I can't tell you what they're good for. Your list looks like my mod with a couple exceptions. First stay away from rear upper control arms when you stiffen up the uppers it makes the rear end unpredictable when the suspension is being cycled very hard. Most people and I am doing a pan hard bar and torque arm. It costs a little more but you gain a lot of predictability and control. Second for the lowers maximum Motorsports makes a heavy duty lower control arm that has spherical 3 piece bushings. These are fannnnntastic! The poly steering rack bushings are very good. I'd add the X2 ball joints and bump steer kit.


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Old 02-26-2015, 04:21 PM   #14
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Hey Bullitt,



Be careful, the mod bug will hit you hard !

I've already been infected


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Old 02-26-2015, 04:34 PM   #15
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I haven't had any experience with the chip. I can't tell you what they're good for. Your list looks like my mod with a couple exceptions. First stay away from rear upper control arms when you stiffen up the uppers it makes the rear end unpredictable when the suspension is being cycled very hard. Most people and I am doing a pan hard bar and torque arm. It costs a little more but you gain a lot of predictability and control. Second for the lowers maximum Motorsports makes a heavy duty lower control arm that has spherical 3 piece bushings. These are fannnnntastic! The poly steering rack bushings are very good. I'd add the X2 ball joints and bump steer kit.


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Because of price, I could do the MM lowers instead and leave the uppers, but I'd have to wait a while to add a panhard and a torque arm.

You think I should do poly instead of spherical?

I'm gonna wait on the bump steer kit, but I'll do the X2s if I don't end up getting a new front control arm kit. In the end it's really gonna come down to $

Speaking of $, if anyone wants to buy some used Steeda springs and/or a Steeda CAI, let me know! You'll be helping the cause


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Old 02-26-2015, 04:57 PM   #16
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Gears, Tuner and a Shift Kit

Spherical all the way.
Poly doesn't allow the correct suspension geometry to happen as effectively.

This is a great read!!!!
http://mustangforums.com/forum/suspe...ion-guide.html

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Old 02-26-2015, 05:00 PM   #17
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Do you think I should ignore the uppers and go with the better lowers until I can afford the panhard/torque arm?


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Old 02-26-2015, 05:12 PM   #18
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Yes. Read the link and you'll see why. It gets explained very well


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Old 02-26-2015, 05:31 PM   #19
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I'm probably going with the Bama 4-bank eliminator chip. I'd go for something pricier, but for the time being I have a fixed amount to spend on other mods. I'm trying to maximize my bang for the buck. I'll give you the run down so you can tell me what you think:

4.10s/tune/J mod
17x9/10.5 Bullitts w/Sumitomos
Eibach struts/shocks
Eibach sportlines
U/L control arms (J&M)
Front control arm replacement set (or just replace ball joints/bushings?)
Rear axle bushings (spherical or rubber?)
Sway bar end links
Steering rack bushings (spherical or polyurethane?)
Pinion snubber
Outer tie rod end boots
PAPerformance alternator

I plan on doing everything myself except for the gears. I'll probably have it repainted within a year, and start to build the engine (blower, etc.) in another year after that (as finances permit).

I know I've just thrown a lot more at you guys, but any advice will be appreciated.



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From the sounds of it, it looks like your going for a good traction set up. But a few of the things you listed I wouldn't be getting personally. #1 the sumitomo tires won't give you the traction in the rear you'll be wanting. #2 unless you plan on welding plates on to your upper control arm torque boxes for more strength, if highly recommend you not to get uppers installed. #3 before most of the odds and ins you get for your car get your self a good set of subframe connectors because this alone will help out more then you think. A good set of full length subframe connectors would be either Steeda, maximum Motorsports, or spintech. Stay away from the ones that are short in length and the ones that are "bolt in" as these will be a waste of money IMO. #4 if you plan on swapping out FRONT lower control arms go with a tubular design with spring perches. But there isn't really a need unless you plan on doing aloooot. Just swap out your ball joints for either a good OE set or Steeda's X2 ball joints.


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Old 02-26-2015, 05:43 PM   #20
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Spherical all the way.
Poly doesn't allow the correct suspension geometry to happen as effectively.

This is a great read!!!!
http://mustangforums.com/forum/suspe...ion-guide.html

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Just finished reading- thanks for that. Maybe I'll add the subframes for now...


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Old 02-26-2015, 05:46 PM   #21
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Yea no problem! I forgot to mention sub frame cons...good ones. Like MM full lengths or Steedas.


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Old 02-26-2015, 05:53 PM   #22
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From the sounds of it, it looks like your going for a good traction set up. But a few of the things you listed I wouldn't be getting personally. #1 the sumitomo tires won't give you the traction in the rear you'll be wanting. #2 unless you plan on welding plates on to your upper control arm torque boxes for more strength, if highly recommend you not to get uppers installed. #3 before most of the odds and ins you get for your car get your self a good set of subframe connectors because this alone will help out more then you think. A good set of full length subframe connectors would be either Steeda, maximum Motorsports, or spintech. Stay away from the ones that are short in length and the ones that are "bolt in" as these will be a waste of money IMO. #4 if you plan on swapping out FRONT lower control arms go with a tubular design with spring perches. But there isn't really a need unless you plan on doing aloooot. Just swap out your ball joints for either a good OE set or Steeda's X2 ball joints.


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I admit that the Sumitomos aren't my first choice, but besides the $ savings, I thought that this will all be such a dramatic difference that it'll be a while before I get picky with tires. I was considering the package with the Mickeys from AM, but they're out.

I'm definitely not doing uppers anymore...

After reading the link, I'll likely get some subframe connectors.

You're right. I think I'll just do the ball joints/bushings and wait until I can afford a better setup for the front end.


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Old 02-26-2015, 06:02 PM   #23
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This is the set up I will be installing soon.
Eibach sport suspension $950 stage 3 Ms has for 899 regular price.
J&M street race lower control arm. $213
Maximum MS sub frame connectors. $145
Maximum MS CC plates. $210
Steeda bump steer kit. $168
Steeda chrome moly strut brace. $ 158
Polyurethane spring isolators front and rear $55
Total $1818


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Old 02-26-2015, 06:06 PM   #24
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Anyway, here's the old lady. Can't wait to get her pretty again!

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Old 02-26-2015, 06:13 PM   #25
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This is the set up I will be installing soon.
Eibach sport suspension $950 stage 3 Ms has for 899 regular price.
J&M street race lower control arm. $213
Maximum MS sub frame connectors. $145
Maximum MS CC plates. $210
Steeda bump steer kit. $168
Steeda chrome moly strut brace. $ 158
Polyurethane spring isolators front and rear $55
Total $1818


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Nice! I should probably add cc plates...


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Old 02-26-2015, 06:19 PM   #26
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Yea those are important. You don't want to be burning through tires every 9 months.


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Old 02-26-2015, 07:37 PM   #27
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I admit that the Sumitomos aren't my first choice, but besides the $ savings, I thought that this will all be such a dramatic difference that it'll be a while before I get picky with tires. I was considering the package with the Mickeys from AM, but they're out.

I'm definitely not doing uppers anymore...

After reading the link, I'll likely get some subframe connectors.

You're right. I think I'll just do the ball joints/bushings and wait until I can afford a better setup for the front end.


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You can get better tires for cheaper else where. The 35 side wall on a 17" wheel is a weird combo. Your tire is going to be alot smaller then what your stock wheel and tire was just so you know.
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:49 PM   #28
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From a tune it would deside the best shift points for mods and would be no need for a shift kit.
You're right about the shift points. In an electronically controlled transmission, you can get the shift points that you want, but what you cant control with a tune is the size of the ports in the valve body. Those ports limit how quickly the trans can shift and a shift kit will allow it to shift faster and firmer. So a shift kit goes well with a tune in my opinion, especially if you are rebuilding the transmission under warranty.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:15 PM   #29
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You can get better tires for cheaper else where. The 35 side wall on a 17" wheel is a weird combo. Your tire is going to be alot smaller then what your stock wheel and tire was just so you know.

What's a better place to buy tires?

The tires didn't seem too different from what I've seen. Maybe I should look a little closer. I thought the aspect ratio was different but the overall diameter was almost the same. 110 for the front and 110.25 for the rear?


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Old 02-26-2015, 11:16 PM   #30
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You're right about the shift points. In an electronically controlled transmission, you can get the shift points that you want, but what you cant control with a tune is the size of the ports in the valve body. Those ports limit how quickly the trans can shift and a shift kit will allow it to shift faster and firmer. So a shift kit goes well with a tune in my opinion, especially if you are rebuilding the transmission under warranty.

So, J mod and a shift kit with the tune?


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Old 02-27-2015, 12:57 AM   #31
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So, J mod and a shift kit with the tune?


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J mod is not a huge priority if you get a tune and gears. but when your trans gets rebuilt I would do the J mod. Its always going to help! J mod goes really well with 4.10 gears, too.

Just thinking about it, your car will go through each gear quicker wen you have 4:10s, obviously. But the amount of time for the gears to change will stay the same, because that's not affected by the differential gear ratio. Its a matter of how fast can your car let go of 1st and grab 2nd.


Your computer can decide what RPM to let that happen at and it can kinda make it shift faster, but J mod really makes it decisive.


So:
Gears--- give your car more leverage over the road
Tune--- places your shift points to allow the engine to stay in powerband
J mod-- Enables your gear changes to be quick and crisp
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:41 AM   #32
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Don't get J&M lowers, get the Steedas at minimum or MM. Don't get Sumis, get a better tire from tirerack. The BFG Sport Comp 2s are cheap and great. I actually saved money buying the rims from AM and the tires from tirerack and got them mounted/balanced locally. That's another thing, some of the AM wheel/tire setups are just plain not correct size wise and you have to watch out. Don't get the bama tuner, DEFINITELY not the chip even if you do go with bama. Go with a legit datalogging tuner that will actually custom burn you a tune vs looking at your logs and selecting a canned one out of a share drive.

As for the uppers, don't even get spherical ones, leave the stock uppers alone. The stock 4 link is a pretty bad setup actually and the only real reason to do anything with it is if you are class limited. That is what some of the crazy *** upper relocation brackets and heim joint setups are really for. For the Fox4 (78-04) chassis, there are really only 2 (well 3) options. 1/2- is to get rid of the 4 link solid rear and go to a 1-Panhard/Torque arm setup or 2-a watt's link. The watt's link is better but overkill for non-competition cars and its more expensive. Option 3 is to swap in an independent rear from a 99-04 Cobra but that is about $3k to do it correctly. Getting the suspension correct in one of these cars is not cheap unfortunately but you can do a few budget things for the stock 4 link to help and you seem to already be on that track.

What I would do (and what I have done) for a 99-04 car on "budget":

-Full tune up to include an injector and COP rebuild
-4.10 rear gears
-Aftermarket midpipe
-Catback of your choice
-Steeda or Spintech or Global West subframes
-Steeda Lower Control arms
-Lowering springs (SR or BBK are fine)
-Tokico Illumina Shocks/Struts
-MM CC plates (don't even attempt to lower without CC plates and ONLY get MM)
-Trick Flow Plenum and Trick flow 75mm TB
-JLT CAI (once the plenum is done)
-Wheels and tires
-J Mod
-MPT Tune

This should give you a real fun low 13 second car and your next step after all this would be to add an aftermarket stall converter and then throw a power adder at it.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:59 AM   #33
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Don't get J&M lowers, get the Steedas at minimum or MM. Don't get Sumis, get a better tire from tirerack. The BFG Sport Comp 2s are cheap and great. I actually saved money buying the rims from AM and the tires from tirerack and got them mounted/balanced locally. That's another thing, some of the AM wheel/tire setups are just plain not correct size wise and you have to watch out. Don't get the bama tuner, DEFINITELY not the chip even if you do go with bama. Go with a legit datalogging tuner that will actually custom burn you a tune vs looking at your logs and selecting a canned one out of a share drive.

As for the uppers, don't even get spherical ones, leave the stock uppers alone. The stock 4 link is a pretty bad setup actually and the only real reason to do anything with it is if you are class limited. That is what some of the crazy *** upper relocation brackets and heim joint setups are really for. For the Fox4 (78-04) chassis, there are really only 2 (well 3) options. 1/2- is to get rid of the 4 link solid rear and go to a 1-Panhard/Torque arm setup or 2-a watt's link. The watt's link is better but overkill for non-competition cars and its more expensive. Option 3 is to swap in an independent rear from a 99-04 Cobra but that is about $3k to do it correctly. Getting the suspension correct in one of these cars is not cheap unfortunately but you can do a few budget things for the stock 4 link to help and you seem to already be on that track.

What I would do (and what I have done) for a 99-04 car on "budget":

-Full tune up to include an injector and COP rebuild
-4.10 rear gears
-Aftermarket midpipe
-Catback of your choice
-Steeda or Spintech or Global West subframes
-Steeda Lower Control arms
-Lowering springs (SR or BBK are fine)
-Tokico Illumina Shocks/Struts
-MM CC plates (don't even attempt to lower without CC plates and ONLY get MM)
-Trick Flow Plenum and Trick flow 75mm TB
-JLT CAI (once the plenum is done)
-Wheels and tires
-J Mod
-MPT Tune

This should give you a real fun low 13 second car and your next step after all this would be to add an aftermarket stall converter and then throw a power adder at it.

I'll likely get the MM lowers (and CC plates) now that I'm saving on the uppers. I'll do the panhard/TA setup and toss the uppers once I get more money.

I'll check out tire rack, but someone was saying the 35 is the wrong size for the 17x10.5? I thought with the stocks being 45 (245 x 0.45=110.25) and the new tires (275 x 0.40=110 and 315 x 0.35=110.25) meant they were the right fit. No?

I'd love to get a mid pipe, but I'm in California. As far as I know, I'm stuck with factory. Damn Prius-driving bureaucrats

I know the Tokicos are a better buy, but they're a bit more than the Eibachs. About $130 more on eBay. I have a guitar I've been meaning to sell...

I have a Steeda CAI, but I had to take it off for smog. It's an easy install so maybe I'll just put it back on and take it off for future smogs. Did I mention the Prius-driving bureaucrats? For the plenum and TB, I'll have to see what I save on tires...

The MPT tune is a little pricey, but I have two old iPhones I need to sell. I'm gonna try and make this all happen.

Everyone, thanks again!


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Old 02-27-2015, 10:29 AM   #34
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I honestly haven't heard anything good about the chips. You'll thank yourself later when you buy an X4 and MPT tunes. I have heard of way to many people bricking their cars with the chips.


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Old 02-27-2015, 11:35 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater2111 View Post
I honestly haven't heard anything good about the chips. You'll thank yourself later when you buy an X4 and MPT tunes. I have heard of way to many people bricking their cars with the chips.


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I'll get the X4 from MPT👍


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