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Old 03-08-2015, 03:21 PM   #1
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Cams with auto 02 gt

I was wondering what cams or ( stages ) of cams will make the car buck at a stop light if cruising around town. I would like to try to prevent this from happening.

I'm looking at cms stage 2, hi tech stage 2.

Also what can I do to prevent it.

Thanks for any input.


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Old 03-08-2015, 03:56 PM   #2
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You can fix idle speed with the tune you should also be getting. That way it doesn't engage the TC at odd times in the lopeyness if it causes the car to idle too high. But idk exactly what you mean by "buck"..
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Old 03-08-2015, 04:03 PM   #3
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If I'm sitting at a traffic light with my foot on the brake with more aggressive cams, don't cars (with autos) tend to want to buck or go forward or have slight surge to them. Or am I totally wrong?


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Old 03-08-2015, 04:09 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by knechtion13 View Post
If I'm sitting at a traffic light with my foot on the brake with more aggressive cams, don't cars (with autos) tend to want to buck or go forward or have slight surge to them. Or am I totally wrong?


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Could be true if they idle faster than the torque converter's engagement RPM.

If the engine is idling below the rpm that engages the TC, you wont feel a thing.

FInd out what RPM that is on the auto and then have the tune set it below that? seems like what you should do
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Old 03-08-2015, 04:16 PM   #5
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Ok so deciding whether to get stage 2 or stage 1 shouldn't be an issue. Other then ptv issues, and goals for the car.


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Old 03-08-2015, 05:01 PM   #6
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Yeah I would go at least stage 2. Stage 3 on that and you would want new valve springs and maybe a higher stall speed TC
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:12 PM   #7
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The "surge" that you are referring to, is usually experienced when using very aggressive cams. They produce very little vacuum when the engine is idling.
You shouldn't have any problems with any of the cams which are suitable for use in an engine with the stock compression ratio.

Yes. What are your goals for the car?
That is an important question which needs to be answered before making a decision on purchasing cams.
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:27 PM   #8
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Here is an interesting read about cams and exhaust combinations and head work.


Horsepower Vs Torque


I highly recommend reading this as opposed to doing whatever it is you are procrastinating doing right now. YOu know you are doing it!
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Old 03-08-2015, 05:49 PM   #9
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You will run into engine issues before bucking issues with the cams.


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Old 03-08-2015, 06:07 PM   #10
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Ok all great info thanks a lot

Not really procrastinating, been narrowing down cams and digging deeper.
Also living in Ohio and having the car stored all winter does not motivate you until you sense spring is coming.


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Old 03-09-2015, 03:06 PM   #11
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I have an auto go with the cam you want then add a stall converter 2200/2400 tci the stall allows it to idle without surging or bucking. Tci converter can be had for about 600 maybe less if you know someone. Cam gear and a stall it will be fun to drive
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:20 PM   #12
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Rig up a clutch in place of your TC lol.


THey have semi-manual transmission that is a manual with a TC instead of a clutch. WHy not have an Auto trans that uses a manual clutch? Id like to see more people doing cool **** like that. Regular old cars with people doing the same **** gets old after a while! lol
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Old 03-09-2015, 06:01 PM   #13
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If you want to do that just get a manual valve body... Also I'd just supercharge instead of cams. Stall converter for sure if you are serious about the 1/4. Freakshow makes a real good converter for not a ton of money.

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Old 03-09-2015, 09:13 PM   #14
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If you want to do that just get a manual valve body... Also I'd just supercharge instead of cams. Stall converter for sure if you are serious about the 1/4. Freakshow makes a real good converter for not a ton of money.

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Manual valve body, plus replace the Torque converter with a Clutch that you fabricate to work in it lol. I think all automatics should be set up like that!
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:34 AM   #15
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Manual valve body, plus replace the Torque converter with a Clutch that you fabricate to work in it lol. I think all automatics should be set up like that!
Um... no... seeing as the torque converter is the primary reason the automatic is faster in the 1/4. Torque multiplication and all. That and you never miss a shift and they are seamless. The computer is actually going to shift better than even a MVB too just because its the same exact correct shift points every time. Provided you've set them up correctly anyway.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:55 AM   #16
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Um... no... seeing as the torque converter is the primary reason the automatic is faster in the 1/4. Torque multiplication and all. That and you never miss a shift and they are seamless. The computer is actually going to shift better than even a MVB too just because its the same exact correct shift points every time. Provided you've set them up correctly anyway.
the automatic mustang gt is almost an entire second slower than the manual gt in the quarter mile and 0-60 also is .7 seconds slower.

Maybe a good auto will be faster, but not production cars at the lower end of the price spectrum (which is where mustangs are compared to other performance cars)

Autos inherently suck more power out of the drive train. Thats just by nature.

and what are you talking about as far as torque multiplication? Idk what you mean by that.

I raced my friends 2002 Auto GT against my 1999 5 speed vert GT.
Both are basically stock, and I had the lead 100% of the time every time we lined up.. even though I had only 1 week of stick driving experience.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:10 AM   #17
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the automatic mustang gt is almost an entire second slower than the manual gt in the quarter mile and 0-60 also is .7 seconds slower.

Maybe a good auto will be faster, but not production cars at the lower end of the price spectrum (which is where mustangs are compared to other performance cars)

Autos inherently suck more power out of the drive train. Thats just by nature.

and what are you talking about as far as torque multiplication? Idk what you mean by that.
So you are recommending stuff for an auto but you don't know how a converter works... lol

Not talking about off the showroom floor or stock for stock. I'm talking about once some mods are done. Autos are better for the 1/4 and there is no arguing this point. For DD purposes, that is all personal preference.

As far as how torque multiplication works, even a stock converter multiplies the initial torque hit about 2.5:1 which is why an auto can launch harder at the track than a stick at 1:1 ratio. Its also a lot easier on the driveline and no burning up/blowing up clutches.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:18 PM   #18
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So you are recommending stuff for an auto but you don't know how a converter works... lol

Not talking about off the showroom floor or stock for stock. I'm talking about once some mods are done. Autos are better for the 1/4 and there is no arguing this point. For DD purposes, that is all personal preference.

As far as how torque multiplication works, even a stock converter multiplies the initial torque hit about 2.5:1 which is why an auto can launch harder at the track than a stick at 1:1 ratio. Its also a lot easier on the driveline and no burning up/blowing up clutches.
All The converter does is concert dark matter into dark energy.

But that seems like a pretty drastic difference between the two on launch, I typically assumed auto was only better because driver error was taken mostly out.

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Old 03-10-2015, 02:22 PM   #19
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So you are recommending stuff for an auto but you don't know how a converter works... lol

Not talking about off the showroom floor or stock for stock. I'm talking about once some mods are done. Autos are better for the 1/4 and there is no arguing this point. For DD purposes, that is all personal preference.

As far as how torque multiplication works, even a stock converter multiplies the initial torque hit about 2.5:1 which is why an auto can launch harder at the track than a stick at 1:1 ratio. Its also a lot easier on the driveline and no burning up/blowing up clutches.
Yeh I didnt know about the torque magnifying. My bad, not an auto guy here.

Still though, torque magnifying also divides horsepower by however much it magnifies torque by. its not like doubling the cars power, its basically acts like a gear reduction that varies excellently
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:37 PM   #20
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Yeh I didnt know about the torque magnifying. My bad, not an auto guy here.

Still though, torque magnifying also divides horsepower by however much it magnifies torque by. its not like doubling the cars power, its basically acts like a gear reduction that varies excellently
Its only on the initial hit but that's what gets the car moving and there are other benefits of the converter and an auto too like having a transbrake installed or even just a high stall and coming off the footbrake if you don't have the option for a TB like on the 6R transmissions. At least I don't think there is a TB out yet for the 6R.

I suggest to anyone here to take a ride in a built and properly setup automatic sports car. You may change your mind pretty quick about the automatic.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:40 PM   #21
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Automatics are only slower STOCK. That's because of the weak valve body in it. J mod the transmission and it will be much more firm with shifts.

If you want to win in a straight a properly set up auto will beat a properly set up manual every single time.


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Old 03-10-2015, 02:55 PM   #22
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Rig up a clutch in place of your TC lol.


THey have semi-automatic manual transmission that is a manual with a TC instead of a clutch. WHy not have an Auto trans that uses a manual clutch? Id like to see more people doing cool **** like that. Regular old cars with people doing the same **** gets old after a while! lol
It has already been done. There are 2 speed racing transmissions, for oval track cars that work very similar to an automatic transmission with a clutch.

I have a boat that is equipped with a C6 automatic transmission that is coupled directly to the crankshaft... No torque converter at all! There is no need for torque multiplication in most marine applications.

Just though that I'd throw that last bit of completely irrelevant information in there for no good reason at all!
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:12 PM   #23
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Yeah but boats are just big holes in the water you pour money into. Not at all like race cars... Oh wait...

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Old 03-10-2015, 06:37 PM   #24
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I love a 5 speed but you can not change a gear as fast as an auto hands down! Converter gear and I take on the same in a manual trans any day! You don't see drag cars with manuals unless it's a linko trans and that's a manual with air actuated shifting
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:34 PM   #25
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Its only on the initial hit but that's what gets the car moving and there are other benefits of the converter and an auto too like having a transbrake installed or even just a high stall and coming off the footbrake if you don't have the option for a TB like on the 6R transmissions. At least I don't think there is a TB out yet for the 6R.

I suggest to anyone here to take a ride in a built and properly setup automatic sports car. You may change your mind pretty quick about the automatic.
Ever driven a dog box equipped car?

ANd yeah, I know how fast an auto can be at drag racing. Hell, even just the SRT8 that I rode in had a great trans.

But... I drive mine places besides the drag strip.. actually, never once on the drag strip lol.
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:40 PM   #26
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I love a 5 speed but you can not change a gear as fast as an auto hands down! Converter gear and I take on the same in a manual trans any day! You don't see drag cars with manuals unless it's a linko trans and that's a manual with air actuated shifting
Synchronized manual, yes. Dog box love to be shifted fast. Not sure if its quite as fast as auto, but still..


And you don't see top fuel cars dragsters with autos either lol.


They literally just have a clutch between their drive shaft and the flywheel. They use the clutch to engage at different pressures to allow slippage... Much like the "torque magnifying" that autos do.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:47 PM   #27
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Synchronized manual, yes. Dog box love to be shifted fast. Not sure if its quite as fast as auto, but still..


And you don't see top fuel cars dragsters with autos either lol.


They literally just have a clutch between their drive shaft and the flywheel. They use the clutch to engage at different pressures to allow slippage... Much like the "torque magnifying" that autos do.
They use the clutch for "torque subtraction"... To keep 5000 hp from blowing out the tires on the initial hit.


Again, on a completely unrelated note, I just ordered a Punisher valve body for my E4OD.
I just had to tell somebody.
I'm so happy!!!
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:36 AM   #28
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A faceplated trans with a WOT box is going to be about as close as you can get to an auto at the strip and you still can't launch as hard or shift as fast.

The closer I get to buying a new Mustang (almost under a year now woot) the more I start really not wanting a $500/mo payment on a Coyote and looking more and more at the SN95s again but the only way I'm not getting an 04 Automatic in OW/CO is if I can convince one of the ppl with mint sub 40k 94/95 Cobras I'm stalking to sell.
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Old 03-11-2015, 02:31 PM   #29
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They use the clutch for "torque subtraction"... To keep 5000 hp from blowing out the tires on the initial hit.


Again, on a completely unrelated note, I just ordered a Punisher valve body for my E4OD.
I just had to tell somebody.
I'm so happy!!!
No, they use the clutch to allow the engine to spin at a 5:1 ratio with the driveshaft. then a 4:1 then a 3:1 then 2:1 then 1:1. Its The same thing that the torque converter does for torque magnifying.

If anything, its a horsepower divider and torque multiplier.
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Old 08-19-2015, 10:56 AM   #30
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Just thought I would give an update... I ended trading in my mineral grey auto GT with 38000 miles for a 2004 Mach 1 with 8000 miles dark shadow grey.

So there goes the cam idea.


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Old 08-19-2015, 11:41 AM   #31
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Well you could always put 96-98 Cobra cams in it if you were feeling really froggy but that's a LOT of work for minimal gains.


The beauty of the 4V is it needs pretty much nothing in the way of bolt ons. Mid pipe, catback, shifter, gears and tune. The Mach already has 3.55s but I'd put 4.10s or even 4.30s in it. 02-04 GT/Mach got a .62 overdrive so 4.30s are completely viable on the highway especially if you bump up the tire diameter to 26.5" out back which is an easy fit.


Most of the upgrades you'll be wanting to do to the Mach will be suspension related.


Oh, one other thing. You need to IMMEDIATELY drain the transmission and re-fill it with 3.2 quarts of fluid. They were overfilled from the factory to 3.8 quarts and this created windage problems. If its never been drained or if the PO didn't use the updated fill quantity, no way to know for sure unless you do a drain/fill. Recommend Pennzoil Syncrhomesh for the fluid, you can get it at Autozone, it comes in yellow bottles.


And post pics!
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Old 08-19-2015, 11:55 AM   #32
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I will once I clean it up, I brought it home yesterday night.

thank you for the information. I plan flushing everything out oil, radiator, tranny. Take care of everything that way I know it has been done.


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Old 08-19-2015, 12:17 PM   #33
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Nice, and yeah def post pics of it, the Mach is probably my favorite factory Mustang as far as looks. Love the shaker as well.
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