TOB chirp clutch adj ?? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-22-2015, 10:34 AM   #1
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TOB chirp clutch adj ??

So my buddies 03 TOB has been chirping as of lately. he decided to adjust the clutch with the method when you push the clutch down, hold the quadrant, and lift up on the clutch it clicks. Well when he adjust it 1 click the TOB stops chirping, but me and him starting wondering if doing that is actually putting load on the TOB at all times, causing the noise to go away, but very possibly causing premature TOB wear. What do you guys think?
BTW his clutch is roughly 6months new

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Old 03-22-2015, 02:49 PM   #2
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Could it be that at its stock position, the TOB is just barely sitting off the PP fingers but still slightly touching at times causing the chirp..than when he adjust he clutch, essentially tightening the cable, its preloading the TOB on the PP fingers. But the question is, preload the TOB or not?

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Old 03-22-2015, 03:08 PM   #3
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This is difficult to answer without being there but I think that your intuitions are correct. You definitely don't want to load the TOB, as if you were driving around with your foot on the clutch pedal all of the time.
If it is a choice between doing that, or listening to the chirping at idle... I'll take the chirping.
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Old 03-22-2015, 03:45 PM   #4
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This is difficult to answer without being there but I think that your intuitions are correct. You definitely don't want to load the TOB, as if you were driving around with your foot on the clutch pedal all of the time.
If it is a choice between doing that, or listening to the chirping at idle... I'll take the chirping.
That's exactly the point I made, if adjusting it that 1 click was technically loading the TOB, I think I'd rather deal with the chirp, than a prematurely failed TOB, but Im also not very experienced in the functions of our clutch

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Old 03-22-2015, 03:46 PM   #5
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That's exactly the point I made, if adjusting it that 1 click was technically loading the TOB, I think I'd rather deal with the chirp, than a prematurely failed TOB, but Im also not very experienced in the functions of our clutch, so I don't exactly know if preloading it just a tad to get rid of that noise is necessary.

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Old 03-22-2015, 07:42 PM   #6
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Chirping usually isnt a good sign for your TOB. Mine lasted like 800 miles after it started chirping. You can take the dust cover off the clutch fork and look at it while the engine is running if you want to know. I think the TOB is supposed to be spinning at all times, but not loaded unless you push down on it
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Old 03-22-2015, 09:08 PM   #7
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Chirping usually isnt a good sign for your TOB. Mine lasted like 800 miles after it started chirping. You can take the dust cover off the clutch fork and look at it while the engine is running if you want to know. I think the TOB is supposed to be spinning at all times, but not loaded unless you push down on it
My old TOB lasted about 35-40k miles after it started chirping...

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Old 03-23-2015, 06:00 AM   #8
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wait, is it chirping with your foot on the clutch pedal, or with your foot off of the clutch pedal?
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Old 03-23-2015, 06:15 AM   #9
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wait, is it chirping with your foot on the clutch pedal, or with your foot off of the clutch pedal?
It chirps with his foot OFF the clutch, he applies the slightest amount of pressure and it dissapears. Same exact problem with my old setup, but like I said my TOB lasted 35-40k miles after it started chirping before it bite the dust..but the way that clutch adjustment works with pushing the clutch down with 1 hand, holding the quadrant and lifting up until you hear a click. Isn't that essentially tightening the cable , which is loading the TOB on the PP fingers causing the noise to dissapear?

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Old 03-23-2015, 06:50 AM   #10
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mine has done the same thing since i got it. louder when its cold. i thought that was the pilot bearing?
currently im trying to price out a whole new setup.
LUK 07195 clutch
FR firewall adjuster
FR quadrant
MM Motorsports cable (or FR if its available when im ready to buy)
has anyone heard anything about a steeda cable? its cheaper in price, but i dont want to go cheap in quality. but i thought steeda parts were supposed to be pretty good?
FR pilot and release bearing
resurface flywheel

in total, its looking like 400 bucks, which sounds really good.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:13 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by v8pony View Post
Could it be that at its stock position, the TOB is just barely sitting off the PP fingers but still slightly touching at times causing the chirp..than when he adjust he clutch, essentially tightening the cable, its preloading the TOB on the PP fingers. But the question is, preload the TOB or not?

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You nailed it this is exactly what is happening. The TOB is designed to be preloaded and spinning at all times. It is NOT meant to be preloaded to the point of being so tight the clutch is getting ready to engage but if your buddy has the stock quadrant it will properly preload it. I would just tell him to roll with it now that the noise is gone.
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Old 03-23-2015, 09:40 AM   #12
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the method when you push the clutch down, hold the quadrant, and lift up on the clutch it clicks.
can you explain this process? The only way i know to adjust the stock setup is to pull the clutch pedal up toward you, then push all the way down. any time i have ever tried this, i have never heard it click though.
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Old 03-23-2015, 09:47 AM   #13
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can you explain this process? The only way i know to adjust the stock setup is to pull the clutch pedal up toward you, then push all the way down. any time i have ever tried this, i have never heard it click though.
http://www.mustangevolution.com/must...-clutch-cable/
Been around for quite awhile

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Old 03-23-2015, 09:52 AM   #14
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You nailed it this is exactly what is happening. The TOB is designed to be preloaded and spinning at all times. It is NOT meant to be preloaded to the point of being so tight the clutch is getting ready to engage but if your buddy has the stock quadrant it will properly preload it. I would just tell him to roll with it now that the noise is gone.
See I thought so, but I've also heard arguments about it...I've heard that the TOB is I'm fact not supposed to be preloaded , but fords answer to the chirping TOB was to preload it, if preloaded just a bit it'll last quite a long time, but most likely not the life of the clutch..I've heard guys says F it pre load it, and I've heard of guys arguing and installing all of these extra clutch accessories to achieve a small gap between the TOB and PP fingers.

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Old 03-23-2015, 12:02 PM   #15
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You're talking about a "freeplay kit". I used one once when I didn't know better. Increased pedal pressure and a clutch burning smell and then I did ACTUAL research and figured out that I was a dumbass.

Think about it, with a freeplay kit keeping the TOB off the fingers, you have a surface going potentially 6k+ RPM in the clutch fingers and the TOB sitting still. You go to push in the clutch and the TOB has to go zero to 6K in a split second. This is bad for the TOB surface, the clutch fingers and the internals of the TOB itself. Also yeah, it'll smell like burnt clutch every time you drive it.

Half the problems with the throwout bearing are from cheap chinese units people install and not properly setting the preload. It should not be off the clutch fingers, it should not be ridiculously preloaded because Bubba likes how that feels in his car. This is one nice things about hydraulic clutches, they are set and that's it...

One thing to note that I have to mention it seems every clutch thread when I say get OEM and someone says "yeah I got a FRPP bearing". FRPP is not OEM... they are different. FRPP TOBs are farmed out to china and are likely the same damn thing as a National or Timken or whatever. You should get either the OEM TOB from an actual Ford dealership or I keep hearing great things about the McCleod TOB as well.

Now, as far as your friend's car... again that is the OEM quadrant which is a really really really good design and does not ever need to be replaced unless it is cracking which I have personally never had happen. Adjusts automatically in like 2 seconds and paired with the OEM cable you don't have to worry about all the adjustments people always seem to ask about on the interwebs.
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:16 PM   #16
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Mine does this. I have a FRPP TOB and not a lot of miles. It's what OP and Scotty have mentioned; just barely tickling the clutch plate fingers. When I upgraded to a new clutch, I went with a FRPP quadrant and adjustable cable. I added a spring on the cable where it mounts on the tranny. I wanted to get rid of the floppy pedal feel, so it's a little like the stock setup in that the pedal springs back when you take your foot off. It also keeps my TOB from resting on the clutch plate fingers 24x7. I will often get a short high pitched chirp when I put my foot on the pedal. Sometimes, it will do it a little when it's idling and your foot is off the pedal. I think this is no problem.
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:22 PM   #17
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You're talking about a "freeplay kit". I used one once when I didn't know better. Increased pedal pressure and a clutch burning smell and then I did ACTUAL research and figured out that I was a dumbass.

Think about it, with a freeplay kit keeping the TOB off the fingers, you have a surface going potentially 6k+ RPM in the clutch fingers and the TOB sitting still. You go to push in the clutch and the TOB has to go zero to 6K in a split second. This is bad for the TOB surface, the clutch fingers and the internals of the TOB itself. Also yeah, it'll smell like burnt clutch every time you drive it.

Half the problems with the throwout bearing are from cheap chinese units people install and not properly setting the preload. It should not be off the clutch fingers, it should not be ridiculously preloaded because Bubba likes how that feels in his car. This is one nice things about hydraulic clutches, they are set and that's it...

One thing to note that I have to mention it seems every clutch thread when I say get OEM and someone says "yeah I got a FRPP bearing". FRPP is not OEM... they are different. FRPP TOBs are farmed out to china and are likely the same damn thing as a National or Timken or whatever. You should get either the OEM TOB from an actual Ford dealership or I keep hearing great things about the McCleod TOB as well.

Now, as far as your friend's car... again that is the OEM quadrant which is a really really really good design and does not ever need to be replaced unless it is cracking which I have personally never had happen. Adjusts automatically in like 2 seconds and paired with the OEM cable you don't have to worry about all the adjustments people always seem to ask about on the interwebs.
This is the best explanation/argument for pre loading the TOB on these cars that I have heard, and after much thinking about it, I agree 100%..now but with my friends car, why is his stock quadrant not seeming to auto adjust properly. like I said in the stock position, he seems to have some free play in his pedal, but the TOB chirps unless you rest your foot on the pedal therefore taking the free play out? Correct? Now by adjusting his clutch by the method mentioned above, it seems to take out most of that free play, and the chirp dissapears, my guess is because youre tightening the cable on the quadrent 1 click or 1 "tooth"? Correct me if I'm wrong please..Now my only thing is I don't want to tell him to keep it adjusted that 1 click, and possibly over load the TOB, resulting in premature failure of the TOB. on the other hand, at the stock position with all the free play, it makes the clutch feel floppyish if ya get what I mean.

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Old 03-23-2015, 12:32 PM   #18
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Mine does this. I have a FRPP TOB and not a lot of miles. It's what OP and Scotty have mentioned; just barely tickling the clutch plate fingers. When I upgraded to a new clutch, I went with a FRPP quadrant and adjustable cable. I added a spring on the cable where it mounts on the tranny. I wanted to get rid of the floppy pedal feel, so it's a little like the stock setup in that the pedal springs back when you take your foot off. It also keeps my TOB from resting on the clutch plate fingers 24x7. I will often get a short high pitched chirp when I put my foot on the pedal. Sometimes, it will do it a little when it's idling and your foot is off the pedal. I think this is no problem.
So youre a believer in that the TOB should have a very small gap between it and the PP fingers? It seems everyone I talk to has a different opinion on this..let's get this debate settled!

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Old 03-23-2015, 01:04 PM   #19
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So youre a believer in that the TOB should have a very small gap between it and the PP fingers? It seems everyone I talk to has a different opinion on this..let's get this debate settled!

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Yup! Lol I think it should have a tiny gap between he TOB and press plate fingers too. I believe the stock setup maintains that gap assuming the clutch and cable are in good shape.


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Old 03-23-2015, 01:13 PM   #20
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Yup! Lol I think it should have a tiny gap between he TOB and press plate fingers too. I believe the stock setup maintains that gap assuming the clutch and cable are in good shape.


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The Ford design keeps the TOB lightly preloaded on the clutch at all times and this is how it is intended. I know because I've messed with too many of these damn things.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:17 PM   #21
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This is the best explanation/argument for pre loading the TOB on these cars that I have heard, and after much thinking about it, I agree 100%..now but with my friends car, why is his stock quadrant not seeming to auto adjust properly. like I said in the stock position, he seems to have some free play in his pedal, but the TOB chirps unless you rest your foot on the pedal therefore taking the free play out? Correct? Now by adjusting his clutch by the method mentioned above, it seems to take out most of that free play, and the chirp dissapears, my guess is because youre tightening the cable on the quadrent 1 click or 1 "tooth"? Correct me if I'm wrong please..Now my only thing is I don't want to tell him to keep it adjusted that 1 click, and possibly over load the TOB, resulting in premature failure of the TOB. on the other hand, at the stock position with all the free play, it makes the clutch feel floppyish if ya get what I mean.

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If he's having issues with the stock quadrant it may indeed be developing issues. I never experienced a stock quadrant failure but I know ppl who have. A good fix is to buy the Max Motorsports $160 cable/quadrant/adjuster setup and install that and roll. You do now have to set your preload manually but its not hard and the Max Motorsports stuff is all super high quality with an OEM cable.

That's another thing, aftermarket/adjustable/lactating nipples of jesus cables are all inferior to the OEM and lots of ppl find this out the hard way. The Max Motorsports cable is OEM, so is anything from a dealer. The $40 cable from Napa or the SR adjustable unit from AM... have fun with a sticky clutch and it snapping on you in 10k miles in traffic.
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Old 03-23-2015, 01:22 PM   #22
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Yup! Lol I think it should have a tiny gap between he TOB and press plate fingers too. I believe the stock setup maintains that gap assuming the clutch and cable are in good shape.


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I could see that as well, I always thought there should be a small gap. but after doing a bit of research , the more and more I think about it, and Scotty's explanation, it seems to me that the TOB should be preloaded and resting ever so slightly on the fingers

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Old 03-23-2015, 01:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
The Ford design keeps the TOB lightly preloaded on the clutch at all times and this is how it is intended. I know because I've messed with too many of these damn things.


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I could see that as well, I always thought there should be a small gap. but after doing a bit of research , the more and more I think about it, and Scotty's explanation, it seems to me that the TOB should be preloaded and resting ever so slightly on the fingers

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This debate is so long and hard lol.

I wish I knew what it was supposed to be. I would make an adjustment ASAP if I felt it was a legit spec. Has anyone ever seen a spec on it? I've sen on a few different forums that it's about a dime sized amount of gap. That's about what I'm currently running and the spring helps keep it there since there's no tension on an aftermarket setup like the stock plastic quadrant.


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Old 03-23-2015, 02:02 PM   #24
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This debate is so long and hard lol.

I wish I knew what it was supposed to be. I would make an adjustment ASAP if I felt it was a legit spec. Has anyone ever seen a spec on it? I've sen on a few different forums that it's about a dime sized amount of gap. That's about what I'm currently running and the spring helps keep it there since there's no tension on an aftermarket setup like the stock plastic quadrant.


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Exactly, just want a definitive spec lol. One would think after all these years that the best would have been figured and set in stone. I've seen on a few different forums where people talk about a dime sized gap, while others talk about how it IS designed to be preloaded..I see it both ways, I see how if its preloaded at all times, its obviously constantly spinning/being used at all times, like for example a 4 hour freeway drive in 5th gear the whole time, your TOB is spinning, therefor the life could drastically drop. But on the other hand, like Scotty said, if its sitting off the fingers, and let's say your shifting at 6k, that TOB is in a fraction of a second going from still to spinning at 6k, and I could see that just tearing up the TOB prematurely...the big question is, which method wears the TOB faster lol.

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Old 03-23-2015, 02:18 PM   #25
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This debate is so long and hard lol.

I wish I knew what it was supposed to be. I would make an adjustment ASAP if I felt it was a legit spec. Has anyone ever seen a spec on it? I've sen on a few different forums that it's about a dime sized amount of gap. That's about what I'm currently running and the spring helps keep it there since there's no tension on an aftermarket setup like the stock plastic quadrant.


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There is tension on both setups because... drumroll... they are preloaded... The stock quadrant is just a plastic quadrant with a built in adjuster instead of an adjuster at the firewall.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:29 PM   #26
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There is tension on both setups because... drumroll... they are preloaded... The stock quadrant is just a plastic quadrant with a built in adjuster instead of an adjuster at the firewall.

But I don't see where any of the aftermarket setups are preloaded. To me, preloaded would me the pedal is sprung and basically resets the location of the TOB when the pedal is up. The difference between stock and aftermarket is the spring tension. It's basically just floating and the pedal will be floppy and have a bit of slack. Once you put a spring on it, then it forces everything in place. Now, I don't have a firewall adjuster, so maybe it's a bit different where the pedal ends up, but I don't see how it can be preloaded without a spring applying tension in the system.


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Old 03-24-2015, 08:06 AM   #27
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But I don't see where any of the aftermarket setups are preloaded. To me, preloaded would me the pedal is sprung and basically resets the location of the TOB when the pedal is up. The difference between stock and aftermarket is the spring tension. It's basically just floating and the pedal will be floppy and have a bit of slack. Once you put a spring on it, then it forces everything in place. Now, I don't have a firewall adjuster, so maybe it's a bit different where the pedal ends up, but I don't see how it can be preloaded without a spring applying tension in the system.


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Anddddd now I'm confused lol...

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Old 03-24-2015, 08:10 AM   #28
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He's talking about the spring on the stock quadrant.
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:27 AM   #29
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So all aftermarket setups are designed to keep the TOB off the fingers? While stock seems to keep the TOB slightly tickling the fingers.

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Old 03-24-2015, 11:04 AM   #30
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So all aftermarket setups are designed to keep the TOB off the fingers? While stock seems to keep the TOB slightly tickling the fingers.

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2013 Feb MOTM

Not really. The aftermarket ones need to be adjusted to what you want. I just personally think that unless it is spring loaded somewhere in the system, the TOB will bounce around in there when he pedal flops. There's no tension forcing the pedal in the neutral location. So the TOB might rest on the press plate fingers and it might not. I've never had a firewall adjuster, so in assuming it is basically the same as an adjustable clutch cable, just that it adjusts in a different place.


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Old 03-24-2015, 11:07 AM   #31
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Not really. The aftermarket ones need to be adjusted to what you want. I just personally think that unless it is spring loaded somewhere in the system, the TOB will bounce around in there when he pedal flops. There's no tension forcing the pedal in the neutral location. So the TOB might rest on the press plate fingers and it might not. I've never had a firewall adjuster, so in assuming it is basically the same as an adjustable clutch cable, just that it adjusts in a different place.


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And do you run the stock or aftermarket quadrant?

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Old 03-24-2015, 11:38 AM   #32
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And do you run the stock or aftermarket quadrant?

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I have an aftermarket Ford Racing quadrant and adjustable cable. It adjusts at the transmission cable connection on the clutch fork. I'll post up a pic here in a sec.
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:42 AM   #33
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Here's my freeplay spring.

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Name:	ImageUploadedByMustang Evolution1427215206.586569.jpg
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ID:	178272

It looks like it's a stiff spring, but it's not. It didn't really change how hard the pedal feels. It puts the TOB back where I adjusted the cable to as well as keeps the pedal up like a stock setup.


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Old 03-24-2015, 12:37 PM   #34
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Here's my freeplay spring.

Attachment 178272

It looks like it's a stiff spring, but it's not. It didn't really change how hard the pedal feels. It puts the TOB back where I adjusted the cable to as well as keeps the pedal up like a stock setup.


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What brand? If not MM I would replace it. Every single non-MM/OEM cable I have used has sucked, every single one.

The TOB does not "flop" around in a properly adjusted setup because there is slight tension on the clutch fingers. This is another point to preloading the thing, smooth pedal action with no dead spots.

Firewall adjuster makes it so much easier to adjust the clutch, especially the micro-click. No crawling under the car and you can get in and out and make sure you like the pedal feel.

v8pony:

I would order the max motorsports quadrant, an OEM or MM cable and then a fiore microclick. I've had cheap quadrants/adjusters, aftermarket cables, multi hook whatsits, the freeplay kits... the OEM/MM/Fiore combo is easily the best one I have used and what I settled on years ago.

You have the car on ramps in neutral with it chocked and someone in the car with foot on brake. Another person adjusts the firewall while you are under the car looking in through the hole in the bell where the fork comes through. Or you do the crawl in/crawl out shuffle and do both those parts yourself. You wait till you see the TOB just star to spin and have the person stop tightening the cable. Then go 2 clicks tighter and see how the clutch action is. If you think its not quite stiff enough on the pedal go another 1 or 2 clicks and that is it.

You now have a properly adjusted aftermarket setup that will last a long time and is top notch quality. /thread.
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:44 PM   #35
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What brand? If not MM I would replace it. Every single non-MM/OEM cable I have used has sucked, every single one.

The TOB does not "flop" around in a properly adjusted setup because there is slight tension on the clutch fingers. This is another point to preloading the thing, smooth pedal action with no dead spots.

Firewall adjuster makes it so much easier to adjust the clutch, especially the micro-click. No crawling under the car and you can get in and out and make sure you like the pedal feel.

v8pony:

I would order the max motorsports quadrant, an OEM or MM cable and then a fiore microclick. I've had cheap quadrants/adjusters, aftermarket cables, multi hook whatsits, the freeplay kits... the OEM/MM/Fiore combo is easily the best one I have used and what I settled on years ago.

You have the car on ramps in neutral with it chocked and someone in the car with foot on brake. Another person adjusts the firewall while you are under the car looking in through the hole in the bell where the fork comes through. Or you do the crawl in/crawl out shuffle and do both those parts yourself. You wait till you see the TOB just star to spin and have the person stop tightening the cable. Then go 2 clicks tighter and see how the clutch action is. If you think its not quite stiff enough on the pedal go another 1 or 2 clicks and that is it.

You now have a properly adjusted aftermarket setup that will last a long time and is top notch quality. /thread.
I agree, Maximum Motorsports has the best kit for cable, quadrant, and firewall adjuster. I am actually going to buy the kit this summer sometime.

Scotty,, I have a FRPP adjustable cable. It came with my quadrant when Ford replaced my tranny in 2012 under warranty (aftermarket warranty I bought with the car). I had to use Ford or Ford Racing parts only or pay out of my pocket. So far it's okay, but I plan to change to MM.
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