Tuned vs un-tuned shorty headers - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-29-2015, 05:37 PM   #1
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Tuned vs un-tuned shorty headers

I was wonder what's the difference between tuned and un-tuned shorty headers???
I know Long tubes are the why to go by I jut bought an x pipe and I don't want to buy another for the LTs


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Old 03-29-2015, 05:46 PM   #2
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A very simple explanation, they try to make all of the header tubes equal length or within 5 to 10%
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:13 AM   #3
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Power wise on a bolt on car? Nothing. Just get the FRPP shorties if you are dead set on them. Although any shop can cut your pipe and make it work with longtubes.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:34 AM   #4
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Do long tubes have any benefits other than sound?


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Old 03-30-2015, 11:53 AM   #5
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Do long tubes have any benefits other than sound?


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Yes, there is less wave interference for the exhaust pulses, which makes them flow through the exhaust more efficiently.

Picture your exhaust headers as a siphon for your exhaust.

As exhaust pulse waves travel away from the engine, they create a negative pressure zone behind them. That negative pressure "sucks" or "siphons" new exhaust gasses out of the combustion chamber. that creates a negative pressure condition inside of the engine, then the exhaust valve closes, and the intake valve opens which "sucks" the new fuel:air charge into the cylinder.

In long tubes, the exhaust pulses get to travel undisturbed for longer. When the exhaust waves hit eachother sooner, the waves get scrambled up and move less efficiently. certain exhaust manifolds will operate more efficiently at different RPMSs based on their length, diameter, shape, heat properties and so on. Similar properties happen in intake manifold runners

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Old 03-30-2015, 12:15 PM   #6
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Do long tubes have any benefits other than sound?


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Yes more power. Also a giant pain in the dick to do on a modular car. You have to drop the K member to get them in. Which is a good excuse to install a tubular K member lol.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:16 PM   #7
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Yes more power. Also a giant pain in the dick to do on a modular car. You have to drop the K member to get them in. Which is a good excuse to install a tubular K member lol.
You don't absolutely have to all the time. You probably should though

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Old 03-30-2015, 12:16 PM   #8
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Lol, thanks guys


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Old 03-30-2015, 12:16 PM   #9
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You don't absolutely have to all the time. You probably should though

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It'll be faster if you do and your hands will thank you.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:18 PM   #10
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It'll be faster if you do and your hands will thank you.
Definetly. Don't be a hero like me and try it without.

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Old 03-30-2015, 12:31 PM   #11
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Long tube headers work really well for the operating speed of a typical v8.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:06 PM   #12
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Yes, there is less wave interference for the exhaust pulses, which makes them flow through the exhaust more efficiently.

Picture your exhaust headers as a siphon for your exhaust.

As exhaust pulse waves travel away from the engine, they create a negative pressure zone behind them. That negative pressure "sucks" or "siphons" new exhaust gasses out of the combustion chamber. that creates a negative pressure condition inside of the engine, then the exhaust valve closes, and the intake valve opens which "sucks" the new fuel:air charge into the cylinder.

In long tubes, the exhaust pulses get to travel undisturbed for longer. When the exhaust waves hit eachother sooner, the waves get scrambled up and move less efficiently. certain exhaust manifolds will operate more efficiently at different RPMSs based on their length, diameter, shape, heat properties and so on. Similar properties happen in intake manifold runners

Well said.
I would also like to add that in order for the siphon effect to work the headers need to be equal length within 1/4" of each other which most headers are not.
Kooks and ARH are equal length, most of the others are not-even when they say that they are-including some very popular brands.

Do these look equal length to you?

I wouldn't consider these actually "Headers"....what you have here is a low restriction tubular manifold. The scavenging effect of an actual header will not be present.
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:14 PM   #13
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^Agreed. Don't even get me started on BBK that puts a kink in one of the primaries instead of designing it to actually clear the steering shaft...
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:17 PM   #14
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^Agreed. Don't even get me started on BBK that puts a kink in one of the primaries instead of designing it to actually clear the steering shaft...
I wasn't going to name names but apparently the picture was a give away huh?
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:22 PM   #15
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I wasn't going to name names but apparently the picture was a give away huh?
Bbk long tubes is the one thing on here that isn't debatable lol

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Old 03-30-2015, 01:23 PM   #16
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That's not even the ones I'm talking about but yes. People just cheap out like crazy on longtubes. Hell look at the Pypes POS units...
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:30 PM   #17
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That's not even the ones I'm talking about but yes. People just cheap out like crazy on longtubes. Hell look at the Pypes POS units...
Jbas were as cheap as I was willing to go on a limited budget and they were like 750

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Old 03-30-2015, 01:33 PM   #18
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Lol, thanks guys


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Old 03-30-2015, 02:06 PM   #19
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Cliff's Notes: Get Kooks.
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:51 PM   #20
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Cliff's Notes: Get Kooks.
Or ARH....
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:11 PM   #21
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Tuned vs un-tuned shorty headers

Panther140 explained this very well but I would just like to add that the lung tubes headers actually accelerate the exiting gasses not just decrease disruption.

The reason the tubes are so long is each pulse hits the collector and actually pulls the next cylinder's charge out of the cylinder and with the proper cam can actually start the intake charge moving into the cylinder FAR faster than the piston could EVER pull it in. If you do this right you can actually "boost" your engine because you'll over fill your cylinders based of the added speed to the intake charge. David Vizard talks a lot about this in many of his books. I suggest picking up a copy of "How to Build Horsepower" by him and pay particular attention to what he has to say on cams and porting (really pay attention to it all but these are his areas of seriously superior knowledge).


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Old 03-30-2015, 03:16 PM   #22
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Panther140 explained this very well but I would just like to add that the lung tubes headers actually accelerate the exiting gasses not just decrease disruption.

The reason the tubes are so long is each pulse hits the collector and actually pulls the next cylinder's charge out of the cylinder and with the proper cam can actually start the intake charge moving into the cylinder FAR faster than the piston could EVER pull it in. If you do this right you can actually "boost" your engine because you'll over fill your cylinders based of the added speed to the intake charge.


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Yes, this assumes the primary tubes are the correct size for the application; (not bigger is better) and they are truly equal length.
We have some smart people on this board....nice to see that.
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:31 PM   #23
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Pypes are obviously the best. Who doesn't love leaky welds everywhere, some cheap fake finish, all made in China?
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Old 03-30-2015, 03:40 PM   #24
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Pypes are obviously the best. Who doesn't love leaky welds everywhere, some cheap fake finish, all made in China?
I want some...
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:29 PM   #25
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Good point about the pulses de-pressurizing the other header tubes as well. Id assume that works a lot better when the header tubes are indeed equal lengths. Equal length headers would cause exhaust pulses to come out of their respective tubes at different times into the coupler/plenum. ONce again avoiding wave interference.

Understanding wave dynamics and pressure fluctuations is a huge part of understanding exhausts.
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:07 PM   #26
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Good point about the pulses de-pressurizing the other header tubes as well. Id assume that works a lot better when the header tubes are indeed equal lengths. Equal length headers would cause exhaust pulses to come out of their respective tubes at different times into the coupler/plenum. ONce again avoiding wave interference.

Understanding wave dynamics and pressure fluctuations is a huge part of understanding exhausts.
"Fluid Dynamics" is exactly the same as "Aero Dynamics" but thicker and slower.
Think of a column of gasses like a column of fluid traveling down a pipe.
There is a negative pressure wave behind each pulse that draws from the next tube provided the timing for that pulse is complimentary. This is why 180* headers were designed. They take tubes from opposing cylinder banks in order to pair them to the next cylinder in the firing order to enhance scavenging. We've used them in Stock Cars for decades, but they are complicated to build and fit as well as expensive not to mention they take up a whole lot of room.
This is a true header....everything else is less than that. Often, a lot less.
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