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Old 05-10-2015, 12:38 PM   #1
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Engine limits

About how much do you think this build could hold up to, horsepower wise? I know stock is around 425. Also, how much can a stock manual transmission hold up to?
JE pistons
Manley rods
Stainless steel valves.
Ceramic springs and rockers
30# injectors
Xtreme comp cams
Professional head work
forged crank
Adjustable timing gears
8.5:1 compression ratio
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:15 PM   #2
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The rods are forged steel?


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Old 05-10-2015, 02:26 PM   #3
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Manleys will be. post links to your parts. hopefully this is for a positive displacement blower with that low compression. stock trans is good for about 500 ft lbs at the input shaft. swap to 26 spline and it goes to 600. after that you are looking at a full performance build... or an auto.
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Old 05-10-2015, 02:38 PM   #4
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Yeah, the trans is rated from factory as 360 ft/lb at 5250 RPM but the power isn't usually what breaks these. Hard launches and speed shifting are what will break your trans. However the previous poster is correct that the weak point is the input gear for the power rating. This is assuming the t-54, t-56, or t-3650 trans. The t-56 can take more power though but I think it only came in Cobras. I'm pretty sure you good up to the limit of the block with that set up. At this point I'd find the limits of your block by searching it out online and don't go past that.


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Old 05-10-2015, 02:50 PM   #5
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T56 input shaft will still twist off at the same power level. All 99-up transmissions are very stout with an input shaft swap tho. 96-98 had issues with the blocker rings and the 5\R assembly. IMO the 99/00 units are the best of the stock 5 speeds as those were the final revisions of the Borg Warner T-45. Some early 01s had them too.

There were also some teething issues with the 01-04 transmissions but if you got a bad one you usually found out pretty quick.
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Old 05-10-2015, 03:12 PM   #6
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I'll defer to Scotty on this, I'm still pretty new to transmissions. Hell my stang has an auto this time around, I both miss manual and am glad not to have it in my stang. I am not a fan of the clutch pedal in these. Never really felt right to me.


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Old 05-10-2015, 03:15 PM   #7
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T56 Magnum. Comes with a 26 spline input shaft and is rated to 750ft-lbs. Only downside is the number of threads for the synchros. Just don't miss a gear and you'll be golden.


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Old 05-10-2015, 03:41 PM   #8
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I found this built engine on Craigslist and was going to supercharge it (kenne bell 2.1 at 14 psi) and was just making sure that it would be capable. The supercharger wouldn't be added on for a little bit though, I don't think the lower compression would have any negative effects would it? (besides loss in power)

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Old 05-10-2015, 03:58 PM   #9
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Lower compression won't hurt it at all. Just less power.


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Old 05-10-2015, 04:05 PM   #10
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Any estimates on about how much loss?

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Old 05-10-2015, 07:27 PM   #11
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A fair bit. Yes, you will most definitely be able to run a kenne bell on that engine, probably maxed out though you'll need to revamp your fuel system for that. Definitely up your transmission internals for that.

It's been a while but I'd expect about 20-30 fewer HP for the interim. Also you may well need a different pair of cams when you boost it to take advantage of the boost. Overlap is boost's enemy.


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Old 05-10-2015, 09:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I found this built engine on Craigslist and was going to supercharge it (kenne bell 2.1 at 14 psi) and was just making sure that it would be capable. The supercharger wouldn't be added on for a little bit though, I don't think the lower compression would have any negative effects would it? (besides loss in power)

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Be very very very VERY careful. I personally wouldn't ever buy a built motor from some rando on CL I don't care what sort of documentation there was.

Low compression is find for a PD blower but these days... why? The way tuning software and knowledge on tuning these cars has gone, kinda stupid to build a low compression motor anymore ESPECIALLY if you live near an E85 source.
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Old 05-10-2015, 10:15 PM   #13
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Be very very very VERY careful. I personally wouldn't ever buy a built motor from some rando on CL I don't care what sort of documentation there was.

Low compression is find for a PD blower but these days... why? The way tuning software and knowledge on tuning these cars has gone, kinda stupid to build a low compression motor anymore ESPECIALLY if you live near an E85 source.
I understand the E85 bit but it's not an option, there is no station close enough on my way to work.

Could you explain what you meant on the rest?
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:26 PM   #14
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I'm also a bit curious about what you mean for the tuning and such taking care of the compression issues. Timing and A/F can only get you so far, boost will start detonating at some point, plus you'll destroy your low speed drivability if you pull too much timing...

I get being cautious about buying a built engine you definitely shouldn't do it without knowing if the part are going to work well together and even then I wouldn't buy online (i like to see the parts myself).


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Old 05-11-2015, 12:17 PM   #15
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As the tuners I have been talking to recently all said "tuning has come a LONG way since the early 00s". This is in reference to my 2000 GT that was tuned by Steeda back then.


Tuning software and techniques is a lot different than it was in the early 2000s when the lower compression motors like the Termi were designed. 8.5:1 is going to be a complete pig out of boost and you'll need more boost to make the same numbers.

When/if I build a modular for this 2000 car, it'll probably be closer to 11:1, or as high as my tuner tells me is realistic with a blower so 1- I don't ever have to upgrade the Novi (equal to a T trim) and 2- More power out of boost and the Centri will not run out of air up top like a PD blower will.
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:38 PM   #16
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As the tuners I have been talking to recently all said "tuning has come a LONG way since the early 00s". This is in reference to my 2000 GT that was tuned by Steeda back then.


Tuning software and techniques is a lot different than it was in the early 2000s when the lower compression motors like the Termi were designed. 8.5:1 is going to be a complete pig out of boost and you'll need more boost to make the same numbers.

When/if I build a modular for this 2000 car, it'll probably be closer to 11:1, or as high as my tuner tells me is realistic with a blower so 1- I don't ever have to upgrade the Novi (equal to a T trim) and 2- More power out of boost and the Centri will not run out of air up top like a PD blower will.
I am wanting this for a dd with most of the gains being in the low rpm range. I want to have the low end power for most of the time and then the occasional wot pulls. I don't plan to do any tracking of the car, just the occasional road races and what not. So since I like the idea of the low rpm power, instant boost, I decided to go with a twin screw (kenne bell). In order to run more boost, the lower compression is ideal. I originally planned on a centrifugal on a stock motor and stay at 400hp but I don't care much for the idea of building up boost throughout the rpm range. I plan to do the setup myself and turbo kits seem a little too much involved for what I feel comfortable doing, plus the turbo lag is also a factor. The closest e85 stations are about 20 minutes out of my way either from home or work. I am sort of on a budget build. I feel like this engine would be a good platform, just needing the actual supercharger itself to make 500 hp and keep the transmission stock for the time being. Or even just stay in the mid 400s and call it a day.

I am definitely not an expert by any means, so please correct me if any of my thinking is wrong.
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Old 05-11-2015, 12:52 PM   #17
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Then I would say just slap the KB on your stocker and run 9 pounds. You'll be in the near 400s and with a good tune can get into the 4s


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Old 05-11-2015, 01:02 PM   #18
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If all you want to do is about 400whp, just boost the stock motor and put a safe tune on it. That's what I'm doing with the 2000 I just bought. Car will make 425 to the wheels all day and last a long time with a good tune shifting at 5800. A low mileage replacement motor is $500 out of a Crown Vic/Marquis.
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Old 05-11-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
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You'll have enough power to out run at least stock coyote mustangs cuz you'll have the same power and about 1000lbs less weight.


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Old 05-11-2015, 02:07 PM   #20
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Lol, a 94-04 is not 1000lbs lighter than a Coyote. A 425hp Coyote with very minor suspension will also assrape a 425hp 4.6L. If the Coyote is stock then I'd give the nod to the 4.6L.

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:08 PM   #21
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Yeah I was a little curious about the 1000 pound thing.. What are 2vs though 100-2005 pounds lighter usually?
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:10 PM   #22
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It's like 200-300 lbs.

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:15 PM   #23
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Not bad. Ricer math says 100 lbs less is like 10 hp?
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:30 PM   #24
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Generally 1/10th in the 1/4 is the ricer maths I usually go by.

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:32 PM   #25
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On kenne bell's website they are showing 405 horsepower at 9 pounds. I'm assuming the claims are inflated, since the stock rwhp also looks pretty high to me at 245, I believe should be around 215/220? So what do you guys think about 10 maybe 10.5 pounds running premium gas? Too much? Also what is an estimate on horsepower?

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:35 PM   #26
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All depends on the rest of the mods and your tune etc... Don't go by what the KB site says, get a hold of a good tuner and start working with them.

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Old 05-11-2015, 02:47 PM   #27
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Oh wow I just looked it up, i was under the impression newer stangs were around 4000 pounds. My bad


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Old 05-11-2015, 02:53 PM   #28
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Oh wow I just looked it up, i was under the impression newer stangs were around 4000 pounds. My bad


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Even then a new edge is around 3300lbs, it's only really 300 or so pounds lighter than an 11-14 GT


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Old 05-11-2015, 03:05 PM   #29
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Well 700lbs is a lot closer to the 1000lb difference I said and I was generalizing. But yeah like I said, I just looked it up and your right it's between 2-3 hundred lb difference. I'm a lot less familiar with the newer models. I think I was recalling the newer Camaro weight from a video I saw comparing the 2. The driver was saying he liked the additional weight in the Camaro for added traction or something to that extent.


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Old 05-11-2015, 06:42 PM   #30
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Save your money on the adjustable cam gears. Junk!
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:17 PM   #31
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If the built engine was around the same price as a stock one, which would you aim for? If it ends up not really being built, it's not a big deal since they are the same price. But if it is, I have the opportunity for another 100 horsepower, or more if building the transmission. Should I still opt for the stock one?

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Old 05-11-2015, 09:19 PM   #32
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There is no "built" motor for the same price as a replacement stock one. Replacement stock PI motors with low miles are $500-$800. I'd rather go with a factory motor than someone's "built kinda but not really" motor TBTH.


If building up the trans, well first figure out if you need to. If the one you have now is shifting fine and no grinds or anything just leave it alone. Change the fluid but that's it and do the clutch/flywheel if its still the stock unit while the motor is out.
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