Mustang 2nd gear cold trans grind - Mustang Evolution

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Old 07-19-2015, 04:46 PM   #1
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Mustang 2nd gear cold trans grind

Hey guys. Finally got my 02 gt 5 speed out of the trans shop. Sourced all new synchros and trans assembly for my tr3650 as well as all new bearings and full synthetic fluid. The initial problem was that the first and second gear synchros were broken as well as the synchro assemblies. Trans guy let me pick the car up after hours on Friday. First thing I do is shift into that second gear and......it grinds. From a cold start the 2nd gear grinds and won't go in. After about 5 mins of driving it starts to go in, but still grinds. After 10 mins it shifts into second no problem. Is this normal for a tr3650? I'm goin to call and complain Monday moring. Honestly think this is unacceptable as I payed $$$$ and had to wait 32 days. Just wanting opinions... Thanks..


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Old 07-19-2015, 04:58 PM   #2
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I would have pulled out grinded second gear and turned right back around lol
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Old 07-19-2015, 05:32 PM   #3
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:44 PM   #4
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Yeah I'm not very happy. They left it outside the shop with the keys after it closed so no one was around. Will defiantly be calling.


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Old 07-20-2015, 11:42 AM   #5
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Called the trans shop. They said the grinding was because they used synthetic oil in my trans as opposed to regular trans oil. They said the thicker synthetic oil will better lube the bearings, but may take time to soak into the organic fibre lining of the synchros. Does any of this make sense? And the car drives fine when it's hot, ie when the oil is most viscous. Wouldn't it make more sense to put the thinner trans oil in?


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Old 07-20-2015, 12:03 PM   #6
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They're full of ****, it should not grind. My budget rebuilt one never did and that one was $1060 shipped to my door and I could power shift it at 6K. Did they replace the syncrho and fork with the revised units from the TSB for the 3650s?

You can try putting 3.2 quarts of Pennzoil Synchromesh (the fluid you SHOULD be using) into it and see if that helps... but I would be making them fix it either way.
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Old 07-20-2015, 03:18 PM   #7
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They replaced the synchros as well as the forks. To my knowledge it is the old 3650 units, not revised. In a week I'll check back and get it changed and see if that does anything. Honestly I think the whole situation is ****, I'm 1700 in and still having issues.


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Old 07-20-2015, 03:42 PM   #8
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Make them use the revised synchro and fork or take them to small claims. Damn dude you should have posted you were looking for one. The place I got mine from sells them very cheap and they work great and no core charge. I paid $1060 to my door like I said and I installed myself.

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Old 07-20-2015, 03:53 PM   #9
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If they knew about this "problem" of the transmission fluid needing to "soak into" the synchro's, you would think that they would at least be smart enough to pre-soak the things in transmission fluid to get them good and lubed up. For Christ sakes, they had a month!
Like Scotty, I'm calling bullshlt. A reputable shop doesn't deliver a car to a customer and say,"Give it some time, it'll stop grinding".
If you had just bought a brand new car, and the transmission was grinding on the first shift, right off of the lot, would you accept the salesperson telling you, "It's fine, just needs a little break-in period, that's all".

And it's ridiculous that a shop would tell you to drive around, with second gear grinding, and THEIR transmission is still under warranty.
I would bring it back to them in a week after doing my best to grind second gear until it was perfectly smooth, with not a tooth left on it...
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Old 08-20-2015, 08:58 PM   #10
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Mustang 2nd gear cold trans grind

Hey, Wa. Just wondering if you have an update on this post?
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:30 PM   #11
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Took the car back after 3 weeks of driving it. He gave it back after 3 days, told me the thicker synthetic oil was making everything stick together So he replaced it with the correct fluid. Never acknowledged he was wrong however lol. Now the car drive a lot better. Still nibbles second a couple times and may grind once in a while. I have 70 days left of warranty so I'll probably bring it back again just because his work still feels like ****. Said after he gave it back he drove it multiple times and also got others in the shop to drive it and everyone thinks it drives fine. Will see.


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Old 08-20-2015, 09:50 PM   #12
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OKay red flag #1 why the hell is synthetic in your T45? and did they pay attention to what the friction surface looks like on the gear
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:52 PM   #13
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Get penzoil synchromesh. CONVENTIONAL IN MANUALS
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Old 08-20-2015, 10:06 PM   #14
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He has a 3650.
I used Mobil 1 synthetic ATF in mine and it shifts great, although, it still has the inherent 3650 notchyness when it is cold. Especially second gear.

I'm beginning to wonder if this "transmission shop" is possibly over-filling the transmission, and that is, at least, contributing to Wa's problem.
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Old 08-21-2015, 05:22 AM   #15
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Yes, omfg drain the fluid and do a fill YOURSELF with 3.2 quarts of Synchromesh.


Also, this guy who owns this shop that did this trans is an idiot if he is talking out of his *** like this with the fluid.


Someone who doesn't know what the hell right fluid to put in a 3650 after a rebuild should probably go back to charging $60 for a "synthetic oil change" and trying to gouge ppl for a "10 point checkup".


The fact of the matter is, this is a fresh rebuild with new parts. It should shift like butter. If he's telling you "that's just how 3650s are" no... it isn't. Its how badly done ones or old worn out ones are.
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Old 08-21-2015, 07:53 PM   #16
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Thanks for the update. I've just been wondering about some of these same points.

On your situation, did you fill with AT fluid or oil? Also, 3.2 qts? You spoke both terms in your notes.

Did you source OEM parts or from another manufacturer(s)? Other manufacturers may have different manufacturing tolerances than OEM. Even a few thousandths of an inch thicker gear teeth can cause a grind/bind in transmissions.

Did the shop soak the parts before installation? I understand that is standard procedure for MT components. That is absolutely nothing new!

Thanks for the updates.
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Old 08-22-2015, 04:00 PM   #17
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To answer your questions as best I can...

Not sure what he put in it. He claimed it was synthetic oil, and then he switched it to the recommended trams fluid.

I sources oem parts. Took forever but the were original. Brand new. Should be perfect.

And that last part I'm not sure. He initially said it would take time to soak in but like I said I didn't do the work so I have no clue


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Old 08-23-2015, 02:14 PM   #18
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My guess is the problems came from not soaking the synchro's and using the wrong lube initially. I would expect much better from a professional shop.

Like Straybullet said, "A reputable shop doesn't deliver a car to a customer and say,"Give it some time, it'll stop grinding". If you had just bought a brand new car, and the transmission was grinding on the first shift, right off of the lot, would you accept the salesperson telling you, "It's fine, just needs a little break-in period, that's all"."

I hope this works out well and quickly. Just don't be intimidated by some mechanic that has the right answer AFTER you stated the problem. Eventually, you will run out of warranty and still have problems.

The shop should have done the job correctly the first time.
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Old 08-23-2015, 02:26 PM   #19
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Yeah exactly. I was also stunned by the amount of shops in my area that had no experience with mustangs. I'm going to pay the shop a visit and see if I can't negotiate an extended warranty.


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Old 08-23-2015, 04:34 PM   #20
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Excellent idea!

Thanks for posting such an informative topic.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:13 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
Make them use the revised synchro and fork or take them to small claims. Damn dude you should have posted you were looking for one. The place I got mine from sells them very cheap and they work great and no core charge. I paid $1060 to my door like I said and I installed myself.

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What place is this i need a built 3650 Cause my 3rd is Grinding If i try to even speed shift it Let alone Powershift but powershifting is the reason its going out,


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Old 12-23-2015, 04:58 PM   #22
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What place is this i need a built 3650 Cause my 3rd is Grinding If i try to even speed shift it Let alone Powershift but powershifting is the reason its going out,


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They actually have started charging for cores since I posted this.

01 04 Mustang 4 6L Tremec TR3650 5SPD Transmission Rebuilt | eBay

It used to be $895 plus shipping and no core which is INSANELY cheap. Shipping was about $160 for me. Now its still a good deal but not like it used to be. Getting your core charge back will cover shipping both ways though.

Also a good trans should take quick shifting no problem, I'm assuming this is what you mean because "powershifting" means no lift shifting and without a WOT box that is just a terrible idea for even the strongest transmissions.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:27 PM   #23
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I have a wot box but not installed lol just heavy foot but yeah by speed shifting i ment lifting fast lol but the core charge fine cause ill send them mine back in


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Old 12-23-2015, 05:31 PM   #24
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I have a wot box but not installed lol just heavy foot but yeah by speed shifting i ment lifting fast lol but the core charge fine cause ill send them mine back in


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Yep, it will wind up in the end costing you about what it cost me plus an extra $120-$160 to ship yours back to them which was why no core was so nice.
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Old 03-08-2016, 07:06 PM   #25
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Yes, I know this is an old topic.

I was wondering, Scotty, if you are using Pennzoil Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid in your car? (It's part number 3501)

Thanks
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:57 PM   #26
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I was in my 98GT with the 3650 swap. That thing shifted like butter and I mean it. I could slam 2nd at 6K and she went right in silently.

I actually have no idea what fluid is in the current stang T45 but it will be getting the Synchromesh treatment as well.
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:53 AM   #27
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I wonder what ended up happening with wawanesa5speed's transmission?
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Old 03-09-2016, 07:41 AM   #28
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Well I'm going back home from university this weekend to pick up my car. Right before winter i called the shop to complain about a cold grind in 2nd gear for the 3rd time. My dad took it to the shop and they apparently changed all the synchro gears for the second time. This weekend will be the first time I get to drive it since its last visit to the shop in October. So far i paid for the fix, and have gotten 2 trans fluid flush/changes and a second syncho rebuilt all under warranty. But my warranty ended in February so i don't know what ill do if i have more issues, probably take it back again and see what happens. Fingers crossed this weekend that they got it right!
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Old 03-10-2016, 08:26 AM   #29
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Thanks, Scotty. I'll get that same MT fluid for mine.

Thanks for the update, Wawa. You have an interesting and very relevant story for all. Keep everyone updated even though the post has been around for many months..


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Old 03-14-2016, 01:31 PM   #30
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Wellllllllll, drove the car back on sunday, 400km, it grinded for a second on 5th once but other than that no issues. All highway tho. Took it for a drive around the city and if i shift to second before 2-2500rpm then it goes in fine, anything higher and it occasionally grinds for a second then slips in. This has made me super careful when i shift as im afraid to break anything after my warranty. Ill hover before second gear for a couple seconds, if i do that it works fine. Honestly its nowhere near perfect but its the best its been. Ill probably drive it till it breaks and then look for something like a TKO 5speed. Learned my lesson about trans rebuilds.
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Old 03-14-2016, 02:13 PM   #31
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Yeah something is still wrong with it. They likely did a quickie rebuild without doing any TSBs.

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Old 03-20-2016, 10:20 PM   #32
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New development. Car doesn't seem to mind the cold as much(drove it for a couple cold morning). Still misses 2nd occasionally especially at higher rpms. Called the shop, after some negotiation they promised to mail me a 1/3 refund. Better then nothing. I like that they acknowledged i still wasn't happy. Will probably post later about other trans options but for now i guess this will do.
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:29 PM   #33
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That's very fair of that shop to do that.
The second gear "notchyness", when the transmission is cold, was always a complaint with the TR3650.
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Old 03-21-2016, 05:57 AM   #34
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Better than nothing but to make it right they should be giving you a complete rebuild or covering the rebuild cost somewhere else. 1/3 the price is not enough to fix the issue.
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:35 PM   #35
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when people refer to grinding and notchiness in certain gears, are you talking about when you are switching into a gear, or when it is already in gear? or both?
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