Ceramic Shorty Headers: Flowmaster vs JBA - Mustang Evolution

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Old 08-21-2015, 08:46 PM   #1
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Ceramic Shorty Headers: Flowmaster vs JBA

Hi, How is everyone doing?
After some research I got a lot of mixed Feedback about shorty headers. I can't use Long Headers since I already just spend $1200 months ago on an X pipe that only fits shorties. I heard from some sources that Shorties can increase maybe 10-15HP. Some say only 1-3HP. Then some say it depends on the other bolt ons. My local mechanic said it adds 5% of whatever is the current Total HP.

I have a Mustang GT Auto 2004, and the bolts on are:
-Air Raid Cold Air Intake
-Borla S-Type Stinger
-Bassani catted X-Pipe
-4 new O2 sensors

Even if I get only maybe 10HP with shorties headers and get a louder sound, I would be fine with that. WHat has been everyone's experience with Shorties, and which would have the better quality, sound and power effect:

FLOWMASTER CERAMIC SHORTY HEADERS
vs
JBA CERAMIC CAT4WARD SHORTY HEADERS

And thank you in advance for the feedback.
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Old 08-21-2015, 09:53 PM   #2
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Headers are part of a package. Air in air out. Larger tb + cams + headers max gain. Shorties alone maybe 10hp but you gain low end torque even more than long tubes and for a near stock car you want to keep all you power down low in the 1500-5500 range. If u do upgrade tb I suggest 78mm bbk tb/plenum I picked up a ton with that alone

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Old 08-21-2015, 10:29 PM   #3
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How in the heck did you pay $1200 for a mid pipe? I paid $330 shipped to my door for a really nice one with cats and a wideband bung... something is not right here.

Also your mechanic is blowing smoke up your ***. If this is the same mechanic that charged you $1200 for a mid pipe I highly HIGHLY suggest you find a new mechanic.
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Old 08-21-2015, 10:44 PM   #4
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Well he did say bassani x pipe probably like 500 alone then 4 o2 sensors from them at their 75 each price plus labor..then if he bought and had mufflers dine at same time...way overpriced but for sineone that doesnt know better par for the course

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Old 08-21-2015, 10:48 PM   #5
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Well, this shop is also recommending he get the flowmaster $700 or whatever they cost shorties and is probably going to charge him 4 hours labor on top of his $1200 X pipe... Sounds like a real winner of a shop... $2k later he has a set of shorties and an X pipe... Could buy a full Kooks longtube/mid pipe setup and pay for the install for that price... sheesh.
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Old 08-21-2015, 11:26 PM   #6
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Yes thats why we are here to educate and help people avoid the mistakes we all made decades ago

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Old 08-22-2015, 04:32 AM   #7
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@retiredvet. Thank you very much for the info. It really helped clearing up some questions. Between Flowmaster and JBA shorties, would there be any performance or quality difference? Those tend to be the high end ones for shorties when I asked American Muscle.

yes, I was also planning in the future of getting a BBK #1780 with all the positive reviews. So it does get you around 10HP?


@scottydsntknow. I agree, its definitely pricey. But actually that Mid-Pipe was as cheap as I could get it since I live in B.C Canada and Bassani products are hard to get up here. Bought midpipe at Latemodelrestauration for US$657 which includes shipping and tax. Then installation for 2 hours was US$200. Engine lights switched on due to stock O2 sensors not being compatible and acting defective, so bought 4 new O2 sensors at American Muscle for US$210 which included shipping and Tax. Then had those installed for US$100. So Total is US$1167 after all is said in done. In Canadian exchange rate thats CAD$1538.

For my Catback and CAI, I paid US$1061/CAD$1400 Total including installation.
And those mechanics were the cheapest in my town. Some local dealer shops wanted US$1700/CAD$2300 to order the borla catback, intake and installation.

So yeah, as you guys can see I do really like that Mustang, if I am willing to spend practically a used ford focus to get some good sound and additional small HPs. I was thinking after shorties, throttle body and underdrive pulley kit, I would buy a Tuner, and then I would be done with upgrades for now financially. At least that is kind of the plan at the moment.
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Old 08-22-2015, 05:31 AM   #8
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Old 08-22-2015, 05:36 AM   #9
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:04 PM   #10
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Canadian shipping... ooof... And I suppose you need stainless if you are in Canada...

I got the aluminized VRS catted pipe for $300 shipped to my door and the cats themselves are actually stainless being magnaflows. The VRS X pipes also have the best ground clearance out of all of the "off the shelf" X pipes.

X-PIPES

They do offer a stainless one but FYI, if it is 409 stainless its not exactly much better than aluminized, especially if you are diligent with underbody washes every week in the winter. If the car is not a daily, then stainless is a waste of money, at least for a mid pipe that doesn't really have any spots for moisture to collect like headers do.

As for the O2s not being compatible... either yours were just bad or they broke one taking it out because an O2 is an O2. The ones you got on AM are just stock replacements.

But dear lord $2k for a mid pipe and catback... this is why I learned to do it myself oy.

You don't have anyone you know right across the border or a way to get a PO Box in the US to go pick it up yourself and save all that cost?
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Old 08-22-2015, 01:21 PM   #11
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Now to answer your original question about the headers.

Stick with the stock manifolds, they aren't restrictive and shorties will give you little to no gain on a 4.6L.

Mods on the 99-04 2V (GT) should be:

-Mid Pipe/Catback
-4.10 gears
-TB/Plenum (Trick Flow plenum and Summit 75mm TB)
-Tune
-Suspension work such as subframes, lower control arms, lowering kit/wheels and tires.

Anything else is not very cost effective and a power adder would be the next thing anyway to take the car up to the limit of the stock internals which is 425-450 wheel horsepower.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:49 PM   #12
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Stay away from the traditional "shorty" design!.. And go with what's called "Tuned Length"!.. I have BBK Tuned Length Ceramic headers on my '04 GT!.. And love them!.. Now as far as making the car louder, that all depends on your over all current exhaust setup!.. Mufflers play a huge part in that!..


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Old 08-22-2015, 09:47 PM   #13
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@scottydsntknow. I appreciate the mod-list, Thank you.
Yes, my GT is my daily driver and its usually parked outside. Where I live it snows maybe 2-3 days in the year, but it rains 7 months in the year. So stainless was my best bet just in case.

Yeah, buying things from the US border would be a good alternative. But from what I read a few years ago, the import/export laws got much stricter now when going back into Canada. Apparently in the past a lot of Canadians shopped Cars, Electronics and so on at the US Border, and Retail chains in Canada weren't liking that to much and put pressure on tighter Laws.
At least for myself the biggest cash hit is the current $ exchange rates which last year was almost $1.00US = $1.00CAN, and now $1.00US = $1.31CAN. Apparently the CAN$ has been lowered to increase foreign investors buying Canadian property and resources, which doesn't turn out very well for individual Canadians like myself who buys actually a lot of products from the USA. Especially when they are American made products not available up here.

@Eturner. Thank you for the information. What was your experience with the BBK Tuned length headers install? In the American Muscle reviews, some mentioned complications with installing and in certain cases some had leaking issues.
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:09 PM   #14
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Sorry for delayed response. I have no numbers for headers alone I am guessing the tuned ones like mentioned above which I have will pick up a few but more torque than anything. Headers was the last thing I installed after the cai,tb,heads,cams and tune along with a full dr gas spintech o/r x and mufflers. They arent needed until you open up your cars breathing. Long tubes are better if ur spinning higher rpms but my car isnt so I went with shorties

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Old 08-22-2015, 10:10 PM   #15
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Beware BBK exhaust products if you live in a climate where rust could be a problem. My car came with them on it, it has 34k miles and I have no idea how old they are but my car is pristine as far as rust except for those BBK headers and the POS flowtech X pipe the PO had on the car. The headers are salvageable but I will need to send them out to get media blasted and re-coated. If they were not on there and it was just stock manifolds I would have left them alone.

And as far as the exhaust, like I said the 409 stainless is good, but it can corrode and has a life span of 5-8 years in high corrosion areas, sometimes shorter if not taken care of. The 304 stuff is that will last 20 if its taken care of. IIRC everything is made out of 409 these days but I'd check with Bassanni and see.

What catback did you get btw?
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:11 PM   #16
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@retiredvet. Thanks for the feedback about your BBKs. Personally I'm aiming more for low end torque and power, so that does sound good to me. WHat was your experience with installation of those headers?

@scottydsntknow. Thats good info to know about BBK and rust issues. Where you live, do the neigbourhoods use alot of salt in the winter? I heard that tends to increase corrosion as well.
My catback is a Borla S-Type. Its partially the reason why I bought a bassani x-pipe, since I heard the combination of the two on youtube and the sound was very unique and impressive, even on computer speakers. Sound was another factor why headers seemed like a nice addition. I read it will give the exhaust note more of a deeper and louder grunt.
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:57 PM   #17
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If I can help it I will never do headers myself again. I will gladly pay a mechanic the book hours to fight with that bull****. Seriously they suck

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Old 08-23-2015, 12:05 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNIGHT4000 View Post
@scottydsntknow. I appreciate the mod-list, Thank you.

Yes, my GT is my daily driver and its usually parked outside. Where I live it snows maybe 2-3 days in the year, but it rains 7 months in the year. So stainless was my best bet just in case.



Yeah, buying things from the US border would be a good alternative. But from what I read a few years ago, the import/export laws got much stricter now when going back into Canada. Apparently in the past a lot of Canadians shopped Cars, Electronics and so on at the US Border, and Retail chains in Canada weren't liking that to much and put pressure on tighter Laws.

At least for myself the biggest cash hit is the current $ exchange rates which last year was almost $1.00US = $1.00CAN, and now $1.00US = $1.31CAN. Apparently the CAN$ has been lowered to increase foreign investors buying Canadian property and resources, which doesn't turn out very well for individual Canadians like myself who buys actually a lot of products from the USA. Especially when they are American made products not available up here.



@Eturner. Thank you for the information. What was your experience with the BBK Tuned length headers install? In the American Muscle reviews, some mentioned complications with installing and in certain cases some had leaking issues.

I had a shop install my headers!.. Didn't have the time or space (was middle of winter and my garage is not big enough), plus my car is a DD!.. The guy that installed them said he had zero problems with fitting them in!.. Though I do recommend using Ford factory gaskets and not the ones that come with the headers!.. I've had mine on for almost 2 years and I have had no problems with leaks or rust!..

Side note, I do live in Michigan and like I said before, my Mustang is my DD!.. 😎


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Old 08-23-2015, 11:26 AM   #19
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It will take me 10 minutes to install (re-install on my new motor) my headers this fall.


This is because my replacement engine is on a stand lol.
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