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Old 09-13-2015, 10:23 PM   #1
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Cool Input needed: Torn between switching my gears...

Hey guys. I need your opinion about my current setup. I have 4.10's in my car that I DD and my gas mileage isn't all that great I feel (220-225 miles to the tank). I was thinking of switching to 3.55's since they come stock on Mach's and seem like the best between performance and MPG. I've heard 3.55's will lower my 1/4 mile time to almost a 10th of a second. I'll list my mods so you all can help me decide:

2001 Mustang GT 5-speed
- BAMA 91 tune
- FRPP 4.10's w/ TRAC-LOK
- Steeda underdrive pulleys
- Steeda TRI-AX short shifter
- Centerforce Stage II clutch
- JLT CAI
- BBK 78mm TB
- Catted X-Pipe
- Magnaflow mufflers w/custom 2.5" catback
-315/30/18's out back

Thanks for your input!
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Old 09-13-2015, 10:41 PM   #2
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You must be driving in town a lot, am I right?

What are your driving habits like?

You shouldn't be getting worse MPG in town just because you have 4.10s
Interstate.. Slight drop.

I have a Cobra and I am pumping out ****ing good MPGs on the interstate (my actual highway MPG is to the point where I don't think people will believe me). 19 mpg avg during the week with 70% in town and 30% highway.
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Old 09-13-2015, 10:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther140 View Post
You must be driving in town a lot, am I right?

What are your driving habits like?

You shouldn't be getting worse MPG in town just because you have 4.10s
Interstate.. Slight drop.

I have a Cobra and I am pumping out ****ing good MPGs on the interstate (my actual highway MPG is to the point where I don't think people will believe me). 19 mpg avg during the week with 70% in town and 30% highway.
Combo of town and freeway tbh...

My RPM's at 65mph are about 2500 RPMS. I've read some threads on other websites where ppl discuss RPM's vs Engine Load. I get the whole engine load thing, but what about constantly turning the motor at high RPM's? Won't that wear the bearings, gaskets, and seals faster?
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:18 AM   #4
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sounds like my mpg. I just got 215 to a tank in the city. 2002 gt, no tune. steeda underdrive, catted xpipe and catback, short ram intake, c&l plenum and 70mm throttle body. although i believe most of those mods go unnoticed until high rpm (aside from throttle response).

best I've had was 315 to a tank. usually with a road trip, i calculated 27 highway. and thats a/c off, 3.27 gears, cool weather, and flat florida land. (minor inclines but matched with declines right after).

It may be getting worse right now as i havent seen 300 in quite some time. but one of my 02 sensors is new on the upstream, but 3 of them are like 160k miles old. ill get to that eventually. this last tank barely passed 200 miles. (13 gallon fill ups)
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
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Combo of town and freeway tbh...



My RPM's at 65mph are about 2500 RPMS. I've read some threads on other websites where ppl discuss RPM's vs Engine Load. I get the whole engine load thing, but what about constantly turning the motor at high RPM's? Won't that wear the bearings, gaskets, and seals faster?

Just put 4.10 in my mustang. With a 275/40ZR17 rear tire I'm turning 2500rpm at 75mph. Turning about 2250rpm at 65mph.

Haven't calculated mpg yet.


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Old 09-14-2015, 09:55 AM   #6
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My biggest thing is engine wear... Constantly turning higher RPM's has to wear the rod bearings, piston rings, valve seals....Maybe I'm thinking too much about it lol
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:58 AM   #7
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keep in mind he has an 01. with his tires, he should be hitting 66.3mph in 5th gear at 2500rpm as he says. All things considered, that's the mileage i would expect and probably be happy with. especially with wider tires. the change in the tr3650 that happened in 02 put that 5th gear from .068 to .062.

if kris's car was an 02, he would be hitting 72.2 mph in 5th gear at 2500 rpm with those tires.
phatspeed with his tires calculates to 72.8 in 5th at 2500 rpm with his wheels. (minor difference in O.D.)
for comparison, mine is stock, and im at 91mph in 5th at 2500 in my 02. I would love to think that i could go 91mph and get the same mpg as you guys at 72 or 65, but wind resistance is why we can't have nice things. but that explains why highway mileage isnt that much better for me than you guys. less wind resistance, less load. i can be as low rpm as i want but im still fighting the wind.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:02 AM   #8
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^ I didn't know about that change after '01!! Thanks brotha. Just love to know more about these cars and that was some good info.

Anyhow, what does everyone think about the MPH vs. RPM thing?
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:04 AM   #9
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Input needed: Torn between switching my gears...

3.73's would be your best bet with those listed mods and as you mentioned you a lot of driving
Especially if you want to well at strip too
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:18 AM   #10
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What would I be turning at 65mph with 3.73's?
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:18 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Kris.R View Post
^ I didn't know about that change after '01!! Thanks brotha. Just love to know more about these cars and that was some good info.

Anyhow, what does everyone think about the MPH vs. RPM thing?
Its all about balance. I never got a straight answer about it. other than try to keep your rpms above like 1700. right now mine is able to do shift to second and cruise easily at 20mph in 2nd gear, 3rd at 30, 40 at 4th, and i try to cruise 5th at 55 and higher since its so short. I used to try and keep my rpms really low, cruising around 1200 if i could, but i became uncomfortable running the rpms so low. especially since i saw no major change in mph.

what has helped though is using a bluetooth obd2 device with my phone, and finding an app that will show you your "instant mpg" as well as average. it shows the fuel output, rpms, throttle position, and more. and with that, it told me that i was getting a lower mpg driving, say, 35mph in 4th gear, as opposed to like 45 in 4th. i was watching the throttle position, and if you can keep it steady at barely any throttle and the car has no problem maintaining speed, then you will save gas. slightly too much on the throttle, then it will use more gas than you need and you will only increase speed too slowly to notice. you kinda gotta train yourself to feel the throttle down to its percentage and not waste gas accelerating constantly. (like, 5mph increase over like, 30 seconds or something)

as for wearing anything out, as long as you have the correct amount and weight of oil, you should be just fine cruising around 2500 rpm. You are spinning your water pump faster, keeping things cool. you are pumping your oil into the engine heads, keeping things lubed and cool. you are burning out any carbon deposits in your cylinders, keeping it all clean. just change your oil on time every time with a good filter, and you can easily expect 200k out of the engine. likely much more, but i dont know the cars history.
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Old 09-14-2015, 10:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kris.R View Post
What would I be turning at 65mph with 3.73's?
72.9. heres the tool PaladinMicro


edit sorry thats 2500 rpm with 3.73's.

but somewhere between 2000 and 2500. probably about 2250 or 2300
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:01 AM   #13
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Join Ecomodder.com. Or go look at what those guys are doing to save gas. You're gonna have to do something about your cruising RPM-- Its too high if you are driving it anywhere but the strip. 2500 RPM cruise when you have a 3,300 lb car and a V8? Id never take that out of town tbh


You can learn a lot of gas-saving techniques, chasis modifications, and theory of otto-cycle engine operation that will help you get more performance and fuel efficiency.


There are a few factors that you have to keep in mind for mpg:
-RPMs vs Vehicle speed
-Engine load
-Pumping losses (your throttle being closed chokes the engine back)
-Wind drag
-Weight


Learn the terms "Thermal efficiency", "Potential Energy", and "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (in terms of gallons per hour)". I guarantee you will change your driving habits when you burn those concepts into your brainz.


Use those concepts to figure out how to get the best fuel consumption in terms of gallons-per-hour. Then factor in wind drag and Miles-per-hour.


There is a sweet spot in my car. 63-66 mph yields me excellent gas mileage. On a humid/misting day, I get 30 mpg cruising on the interstate in my cobra. This is not just "set the cruise and go MPG". This is me strategically manipulating my engines fuel consumption characteristics and car's speed/potential energy with consideration to the topography of the land, wind drag, and corners. Im going to guess you will only half-way believe me, but that's alright.


I get an easy 25-26 on interstate in normal conditions (being only slightly careful)


I get 23-24 interstate when I just cruise at 80 without even trying to get mpgs. 80% throttle on the on-ramp
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:22 AM   #14
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I get 300 miles to a tank on a good day. But average is 270-280. I have stock wheels, long tubes, and catted x pipe. 5 speed though.

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Old 09-14-2015, 12:48 PM   #15
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You're also running a slightly smaller than stock diameter tire out back with the 315/30/18 at 25.5". I ran a 275/40/18 on a 18x10 on my last car and that drastically dropped the RPM no other changes made. Put some taller tires out back and keep the 4.10s. At least a 295/35/18 Mickey Thompson Street Comp which is 26" tall, but I'd go with the 275/40/18 BFGs. They run wide anyway, are more like a 295 and have a nice slight bulge on a 18x10 rim. They are 26.7" tall.


A 26.7" tall tire with 4.10s and a .68 final drive ratio (01-down) will be a touch under 2300RPM at 65.
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:56 PM   #16
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Wow that's a lot of info from all of you guys! I appreciate the knowledge and support
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:40 PM   #17
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Combo of town and freeway tbh...

My RPM's at 65mph are about 2500 RPMS. I've read some threads on other websites where ppl discuss RPM's vs Engine Load. I get the whole engine load thing, but what about constantly turning the motor at high RPM's? Won't that wear the bearings, gaskets, and seals faster?
I spin the motor 2250rpm at 70mph and 2500rpm at 78mph with my 3.73's and still get 24/27 mpg dending on either driving at 70 or close to 80. I also get 17/19mpg around town driving around in 4th. Have you actually checked your mileage with what you have in the tank (when you fill up) vs. the computer on the dash?
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Old 09-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #18
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When you check mileage, make sure you're on level ground! otherwise its kindof a waste lol.


I don't get it when people doubt the MPG of these cars. 4.6L is not like some big *** engine.. Its a 'sort of' big engine, but its decently designed, its in a small car that has very little wind drag (relative term), and manual trans gets better mpg than the autos of this car's era. it will pump out better MPG than half of the 4 door lame-o sedans you see every day, and the other half aren't too far ahead most of the time.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:38 PM   #19
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If ur worried about the life of your engine at sustained 2500, 3000 even 3500+ rpms.. Dont. Find some video and docs of fords torture tests of the 4.6. You can cruise these across country at 4k rpm no worse for wear. Its the city stop and go driving that wears out motors and cars in general. As for mpg...drive a tesla if you want mpg and speed. Forget mpg it's a sports car. I get 12 in my power wagon on a good day with the 392 lol

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Old 09-14-2015, 09:12 PM   #20
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If you guys are really getting anything over 19 city, then maybe it's time for me to finally change that other 02 sensor. Because I've tried beating on it, and I've driven it like a grandma. Both yield about 16 or 17 city.

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Old 09-14-2015, 10:37 PM   #21
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Just to make one thing clear in motor wear and tear................when you start a motor after it has been off for 4/5 hours or even a day...........that is by far the worst condition you can subject a motor to.
For over 35 years I used a pre-oiler on all of my drag race cars.
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:20 AM   #22
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Dont fear the gear, get the 410s and dont look back. Take the advice from scotty and get the little taller tire to help with the highway rpms. I dont think you will see a huge difference between 373s and 410s as far as mpgs, but you will feel a difference in perfomance for sure with the 410s verse the 373s. Many guys have spent the money and went with the 373s and wish they had gone 410. Gas mileage will never be great so i wouldnt worry about that so much. As far as the rpms these motors are built for it and it will be fine like others have said.

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Old 09-15-2015, 05:40 AM   #23
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Just to make one thing clear in motor wear and tear................when you start a motor after it has been off for 4/5 hours or even a day...........that is by far the worst condition you can subject a motor to.
For over 35 years I used a pre-oiler on all of my drag race cars.
I wish cars just came with an electric auxiliary oil pump, kinda like when priming your fuel lines before starting the car.

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Old 09-15-2015, 09:23 AM   #24
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I wish cars just came with an electric auxiliary oil pump, kinda like when priming your fuel lines before starting the car.

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They are very easy to install and wire up..............and really all you need is a 1qt system. Since I took my sound tube out there is more than enough room on the drivers side and since the Mustang has the trackpak oil cooler it would be simple to plumb.............saves wear and tear during startup...it uses an electric solenoid wired to the ignition and when you turn the ignition on it opens the solenoid/the oil is under pressure in the sealed container at whatever pressure you set..............usually 30/60 psi..............then releases the qt of oil into the motor pressurizing the oil galley....so you've got pressure before the motor is fired. When the motor is running it pressurizes the pre-oiler and when the ignition is shut off it closes the solenoid............keeping the pressure and oil in the pre-oiler ready for you to energize the ignition......slick!
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:49 AM   #25
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I wish cars just came with an electric auxiliary oil pump, kinda like when priming your fuel lines before starting the car.

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If you have a good oil and run your car regularly as in not let it sit forever between startups this is completely not needed. If you ever look at an aftermarket gauge during startup, its got full oil pressure in like 2 seconds after start.

But you definitely should always prime a new motor that is dry from a build.
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:00 AM   #26
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If you have a good oil and run your car regularly as in not let it sit forever between startups this is completely not needed. If you ever look at an aftermarket gauge during startup, its got full oil pressure in like 2 seconds after start.

But you definitely should always prime a new motor that is dry from a build.
I appreciate your comments but agree to disagree with you.
The gauge is not reading what is at the bearing surface as most if not all of the oil has drained away and the first second of startup you have little to no oil at the bearing surfaces.............1 second without oil is substantial...........startup after startup after startup............it all adds up
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:01 AM   #27
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It does add up but when you have these engines going past 200k with nothing other than routine maintenance... I don't see the need, not at all.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:57 PM   #28
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I have 3.55's. I've had 3.73's on my Mach and wish I would have stayed with 3.73's. If I upgrade to 31 spline in the rear, I will be going to 4.10's. If I was you, I think I'd leave it with 4.10's.


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Old 09-15-2015, 01:07 PM   #29
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Talking

Man it seems like from what everyone is saying, 4.10's are the way to go! Is that why I eat up 4th gen Camaro SS's?
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:21 PM   #30
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Man it seems like from what everyone is saying, 4.10's are the way to go! Is that why I eat up 4th gen Camaro SS's?
Lol

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Old 09-15-2015, 02:03 PM   #31
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Everyone with a 02-04 car, remember it has a .62 5th gear vs the .68 5th for 01-down.


Benefit to the .62 is a nice low highway RPM but the 1.00 to .62 is a HUGE gap for the RPM to drop, I always had issues cruising right around 45-55mph on county roads with my 26.7" tires and 3.73 gears and the .62 OD. Either spinning 2500 in 4th or lugging the **** out of it in 5th. Was going to switch to 4.10s but I sold the car. A 6 speed would have been very nice for the extra gear in between 1.00 and the final 6th gear OD. Wide ratio T-56 with a set of 4.30s or 4.56s to mimic the 3.37 1st gear in a T45/3650 and let you actually use the .50 6th gear.
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Old 09-15-2015, 02:06 PM   #32
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Mach 1 owners have the .68 5th gear ratio, so if your looking for RPMs in videos, keep that in mind.


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Old 09-15-2015, 02:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Mach 1 owners have the .68 5th gear ratio, so if your looking for RPMs in videos, keep that in mind.


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No they don't. ALL 02-04 cars with 3650s had the .62 overdrive.
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Old 09-15-2015, 02:40 PM   #34
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Input needed: Torn between switching my gears...

Okay you're right about the Mach's, but wrong about the mid 01 to 04 GT's. They had a .67 5th gear ratio. I don't know what the previous tranny had though. What was it, the T-45?


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Old 09-15-2015, 02:42 PM   #35
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No, I'm right about the GTs too. My 3650 came out of an 02 car per the serial number which meant it could ONLY have been a GT trans and it was a .62 5th gear. The one in my buddy's 04 GT was as well and he bought that car new from the dealer in 2004. The 01 3650 and all T45s had the .68 overdrive.


There is a lot of bad and conflicting info on the 5th gear for the 3650s, people who have actually dealt with them will confirm what I am saying.
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